[Negyt]

I guess i would end buying different cables and do my testing.
I am still a believer that cables does not change sound or if it does improve should be a very minor detail.
So far i tried a couple of cheap cables, which i didnt hear notice a difference.
I placed an order for the fiio L17, shanling L1 and an audicrast interconnect cable.

Might be interested on buying that labkable.

 

[DarginMahkum]

`

Dear sir, allow me to disagree: I was myself not a believer in cable until... I tested several cables between my SP1000 SS and my KSE1500.







Then recently I tried the VERY expensive Brimar Omniking 16x (top - 1000 € ) against my 8wires Pandora Labkable (bottom).





The Brimar Omniking 16x bring additional details and musicality (which usually is hard to combine in a single cable), but... I must agree that the difference in price with the LabKable is not justified

So, for me the sweet spot is the nice L shapped 8wires Pandora Labkable at 150 €

Well, I can only say that I am happy for you that you can hear a difference, and you are enjoying what you paid for.

I also could not hold myself and decided to take a look at the Labkable website. As soon as I saw the silver copper HROCC etc. USB cables I closed it. A company that sells people "audiophile quality" USB cables is and will always be out of my radar.

 

[MRT-Man]

Seriously, you guys are missing out if you’re using a cheap cable. I have no idea whether the Labkable is the best solution out there for the price, relative to other options. I can just tell you it’s made a very noticeable difference, when paired with my KSE and SP1000. A little more soundstage, a little more warmth, a little more bass, while preserving the great detail and treble of the silver cable I had previously been using. Prior to that I wasn’t 100% satisfied with the sound I was getting (mids were a touch thin). The cable fixed that. I’m not a shill, just tellng you my experience.

Cables DO make a difference. I was once a skeptic too, until my ears told me otherwise.

 

[AlexanderV]

Well, I can only say that I am happy for you that you can hear a difference, and you are enjoying what you paid for.

I also could not hold myself and decided to take a look at the Labkable website. As soon as I saw the silver copper HROCC etc. USB cables I closed it. A company that sells people "audiophile quality" USB cables is and will always be out of my radar.

A little offtop discussing here cables, but as soon as we are already there and the subject's price is 3 kilobucks, it will be relevant to know next few thoughts.

In most cases "cables" subject is speculation and can influence the sound at very low degree. But, knowing the formula “10% audio quality increase = 10 times cost increase”, this "very low degree" can play the role. With 3 kilobucks thing in subject for IEMs, we all in this area.

Cables in analog audio are not improving the sound, they are changing the color of the sound. We, sometimes, like this saying sound improved and sometimes not saying "too dark or too bright, or lacking transparency", so we deal with timbral color of sound. USB cable, as digital audio cable for USB audio technology, to the the opposite, can make the sound lacking some details from original or introducing false details originally missed, but again at very low degree. Main reason lays in USB audio technology and it's unfitness for quality audio transfer. Key thing - it is not checking any data checksum while transferring and the data is just flowing(as opposed to when you send doc to a printer over USB or files to USB stick), thus, integrity of audio data over USB is not kept. "0" and "1" you will say, and will be "0" and "1" both in Africa and in Japan , but levels of these signals can be different while passing a cable and lacking of mention integrity verification leads to wrong interpretation and changes in the signal. USB digital auto fixing algorithms can make the situation even worse doing wrong sorting out. And then, after digital-to-analog conversion, you hear the result different from master. Another thing is noisy power and lack of ground isolation where cables are also interfere. Summary: avoid USB in your audio setup (together with USB cables) if you can and have the alternative.

In general, digital audio transfer is more deep hole(with jitter, latency and etc.) than analog audio transfer, and we often neglect first investing 10...0 $ to nice looking analog interconnects/cables thinking that digital part is something that guys from manufacture already thought about and that this is just "0" & "1" and nothing could be wrong there

 

[DarginMahkum]

A little offtop discussing here cables, but as soon as we are already there and the subject's price is 3 kilobucks, it will be relevant to know next few thoughts.

In most cases "cables" subject is speculation and can influence the sound at very low degree. But, knowing the formula “10% audio quality increase = 10 times cost increase”, this "very low degree" can play the role. With 3 kilobucks thing in subject for IEMs, we all in this area.

Cables in analog audio are not improving the sound, they are changing the color of the sound. We, sometimes, like this saying sound improved and sometimes not saying "too dark or too bright, or lacking transparency", so we deal with timbral color of sound. USB cable, as digital audio cable for USB audio technology, to the the opposite, can make the sound lacking some details from original or introducing false details originally missed, but again at very low degree. Main reason lays in USB audio technology and it's unfitness for quality audio transfer. Key thing - it is not checking any data checksum while transferring and the data is just flowing(as opposed to when you send doc to a printer over USB or files to USB stick), thus, integrity of audio data over USB is not kept. "0" and "1" you will say, and will be "0" and "1" both in Africa and in Japan , but levels of these signals can be different while passing a cable and lacking of mention integrity verification leads to wrong interpretation and changes in the signal. USB digital auto fixing algorithms can make the situation even worse doing wrong sorting out. And then, after digital-to-analog conversion, you hear the result different from master. Another thing is noisy power and lack of ground isolation where cables are also interfere. Summary: avoid USB in your audio setup (together with USB cables) if you can and have the alternative.

In general, digital audio transfer is more deep hole(with jitter, latency and etc.) than analog audio transfer, and we often neglect first investing 10...0 $ to nice looking analog interconnects/cables thinking that digital part is something that guys from manufacture already thought about and that this is just "0" & "1" and nothing could be wrong there

What you have written is "theoritically" correct, and have been provided as counter arguments in many discussions. But what it omits is the practical parameters, meaning a realistic model of a 10 cm long cable, and how does this model get affected with different types of materials. For example, how is it its frequency response? How does the frequency response of a 10cm €10 cable differ from a 10cm €1000 cable? Does the "minimal" change we talk about can at all be detected by the sensors in our ears? Are we at all that sensitive?

Oh, and have you ever checked the error rate on a 20 cm USB cable? Or a 1.5m cable? What is the error rate difference between a €5 and a €300 cable? Here they say they tested it and for both cases it was zero.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/11687-the-usb-cable-myth/

 

[plakat]

After a rather frustrating experience with the LCDi4 I remembered that I once heard the KSE1500 at a show in Germany where I was especially surprised by the really nice bass presentation, which I had not expected going by other electrostats I've heard. While I own more than enough large over-ear sets for use at home, I was looking for something to enjoy good quality when working at a cafe or to take with me for longer train rides etc. The LCDi4 did not fit that anyway, being open... but the KSE1500 does. I own a SE846, which I used quite a bit but sometimes wanted a clearer, more detailed representation. The KSE1500 fits this perfectly, being very comfortable with good isolation without the need for deep insertion.

Yes, the external amp is a bit of a hassle, but given the result... I can live with that minor nuisance. I don't mind the fixed cable, although it's a bit stiff. Given the situations I intend to use the KSE that's not an issue. I mainly use an AK380 via line-in, but it's nice that I can feed it from an iPhone as well.

After a few days I'm still really happy with the amount of effortless detail across the whole spectrum, the dynamics, just lovely.

 

[piksnz]

Hi All Android phone owners with USB c audio output. I am using google pixel 2 xl and tried connecting kse with google’s OTG USB c adapter. There are lots of frequent sound distortions. It is basically unusable. But when I connect to my iPad it works perfectly fine. What sort of solutions have you guys found? Any help is appreciated.

Btw I have tried pairing with my idsd BL using 3.5mm jack and sounds fantastic.

 

[csglinux]

Hi All Android phone owners with USB c audio output. I am using google pixel 2 xl and tried connecting kse with google’s OTG USB c adapter. There are lots of frequent sound distortions. It is basically unusable. But when I connect to my iPad it works perfectly fine. What sort of solutions have you guys found? Any help is appreciated.

Btw I have tried pairing with my idsd BL using 3.5mm jack and sounds fantastic.

Sorry to hear of your problems with the Pixel 2. I've had no problems with the Samsung Galaxy S8 or LG V30 (both USB-C devices). Two thoughts: 1) USB cables aren't all the same (and for various reasons don't necessarily sound the same either). Do you have another USB-C cable you can try? 2) The music app that you use on your Android phone matters. Most music apps are not able to pass bit-perfecr data to the KSE DAC, which can result in nasty re-sampling artifacts. I recommend Neutron or UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro). Hang in there - it does work!

 

[piksnz]

Sorry to hear of your problems with the Pixel 2. I've had no problems with the Samsung Galaxy S8 or LG V30 (both USB-C devices). Two thoughts: 1) USB cables aren't all the same (and for various reasons don't necessarily sound the same either). Do you have another USB-C cable you can try? 2) The music app that you use on your Android phone matters. Most music apps are not able to pass bit-perfecr data to the KSE DAC, which can result in nasty re-sampling artifacts. I recommend Neutron or UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro). Hang in there - it does work!

Thank you. Already tried with pixel usbc and apple usbc and all of them having issues. Will give it a try with different app. But I was listening music through tidal. Works fine in iOS. Don't know why Android users need to suffer.

 

[kubig123]

Thank you. Already tried with pixel usbc and apple usbc and all of them having issues. Will give it a try with different app. But I was listening music through tidal. Works fine in iOS. Don't know why Android users need to suffer.

If you go back on this thread you'll see that there are also some problems with IOS, especially iPhones.
From what I experienced with my Mac and the ibasso dx200 (which uses android, but a totally different scenario) is that the cable can make a big difference, and especially with usb c.

 

[csglinux]

On balance, I've heard of more issues with iPhones than with Android.

I'd check that cable.

 

[AlexanderV]

What you have written is "theoritically" correct, and have been provided as counter arguments in many discussions. But what it omits is the practical parameters, meaning a realistic model of a 10 cm long cable, and how does this model get affected with different types of materials. For example, how is it its frequency response? How does the frequency response of a 10cm €10 cable differ from a 10cm €1000 cable? Does the "minimal" change we talk about can at all be detected by the sensors in our ears? Are we at all that sensitive?

Oh, and have you ever checked the error rate on a 20 cm USB cable? Or a 1.5m cable? What is the error rate difference between a €5 and a €300 cable? Here they say they tested it and for both cases it was zero.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/11687-the-usb-cable-myth/

It's not so "square" to be measured and has low final influence to consider. You can measure conductivity, but how you can measure skin effect for example? Good reading BTW, but nothing is written in referred article about usual incurvation of cables while measurement(you can move and cables are made flexible) or what was going on with the environment (sudden crosstalks can be injected in some "wire/wireless crowded" places when shielding is inefficient), and we can continue this offtop ...
Long story short: depends on source, destination, cable itself and environment around. There is no strict point here. But if you have better cable you can just sleep better that it's not a pitfall in your system, Whether to do this or not is your choice as well as your choice to invest $$$ in this. But if we appeared in 3k $ game where the subject is, cables can matter to ensure target perfectness.

 

[DarginMahkum]

It's not so "square" to be measured and has low final influence to consider. You can measure conductivity, but how you can measure skin effect for example? Good reading BTW, but nothing is written in referred article about usual incurvation of cables while measurement(you can move and cables are made flexible) or what was going on with the environment (sudden crosstalks can be injected in some "wire/wireless crowded" places when shielding is inefficient), and we can continue this offtop ...
Long story short: depends on source, destination, cable itself and environment around. There is no strict point here. But if you have better cable you can just sleep better that it's not a pitfall in your system, Whether to do this or not is your choice as well as your choice to invest $$$ in this. But if we appeared in 3k $ game where the subject is, cables can matter to ensure target perfectness.

Yes. Unfortunate for our wallets, we are at 3K+ range. Guys, really. If you are able to hear and enjoy it, that is great news. I, if one day, happen to be able to try one and be convinced... Why not. Until then I will stick to the idea that all those effects like interference, skin effect etc are too small to have an influence on the sound. Peace.

 

[AlexanderV]

Agree. ...sometimes simply too sick of audiofilia and hopeless to get better soon Thanks god Shure made stock earphone cable not replaceable otherwise we'd have +100 pages here Peace!

 

[csglinux]

Thanks god Shure made stock earphone cable not replaceable otherwise we'd have +100 pages here

Very true

BTW, this is the USB-C cable that works for me from my V30 (or other USB-C devices) to my KSE1500 You can find it for less than $3000

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LONQ7R6

P.S. I also own Shanling's cable:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072XBBDZ8

I guess I'll have to try an A/B at some point now...