Shure AONIC 50 -
Jul 31, 2020 at 4:02 AM Post #346 of 1,309
To add a bit to my very short statement from yesterday (it was already late...):
I really don't understand where this frequency response diagram comes from. Especially this upper bass hump is most definitely not present, and I'm very sensitive to things like this. There is no boomy bass, but if that statement comes from someone using the XM3 as a reference point, even stating that the XM3 is "more balanced" -- I think I can file that under solid nonsense.

I do like good measurements like Tyll did them at innerfidelity. He was also able to explain measurements in detail, i.e. he did understand what those diagrams said. And he also understood what they don't say. This dubious website does not show any trace of this deep technical understanding unfortunately, but throws around diagrams and numbers in a way to suggest they are definitive and clear evidence. Far from it. To me, this is just some random tools in the hands of fools -- sorry, I'm not usually that harsh in my statements, but this kind of "reviews" I'm really fed up with. I don't even think they actually listened to the Aonic...

But whatever... I should simply stop reading commercial reviews.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 9:25 AM Post #349 of 1,309
I selling my sa50 one week ago for two reasons but specially one: the artificial leather is making my ears hot and sweating very quickly. This isn't a problem in the past because the weather isn't so hot. But with little temperature going up the ear pads aren't good at all.

The other reason is for my travel, because the headphone isn't possible folding, this isn't practical for the travels.

Is difficult decision selling the sa50 because I love the sound very much, I think in the sound is the best of all the (anc) wireless headphones I trying in the past.

I deciding buying again the sennheiser momentum 3 because is having real leather and is possible folding this headphone. The big very good surprise for me is that now the eq in the app isn't like before (terrible!) but now in the update of the firmware is having eq with 3 bands (bass, mids, treble). Isn't perfect (5 bands is minimum good for me) but is sufficient good for me. I can putting less bass and this setting is saving in the headphone so I can using in different devices.

The construction of the momentum 3 is more solid than sa50 too and I having more confidence when I'm using it, specially the quality of the ear pads and the headband.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 9:48 AM Post #350 of 1,309
I forgetting other problem I having with sa50 is the volume, but this is probably for a person like me. Because I playing playlists very much, some tracks from different albums is very more loud than others (because of difference in master and recording not because the track is quiet or loud) and when I need changing the volume quickly a lot (5 or 6 steps) the sa50 is very slow responding going up or down quickly. This isn't a problem with momentum 3 or other headphones I trying in the past. This is frustrating for me in many times.

I hoping sa50 version 2 in the future is better because some things in this headphone are excellent, specially the sound. (I laughing when I see rtings opinion of "boomy bass". This is 100% ridiculous. I have with me xm3 and this is really boomy headphone!)
 
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Jul 31, 2020 at 10:49 AM Post #351 of 1,309
I really don't understand where this frequency response diagram comes from. Especially this upper bass hump is most definitely not present, and I'm very sensitive to things like this.

FR response graphs are weighted in different ways across websites. What Rting displays as a "hump" is much less visible on Soundguys' website for example. Forget about what websites call the "target response" : it differs between them and the science behind it remains a source of endless debates.
When looking at FR graphs ideally one should always try to compare them to a known pair of headphones measured with the same methodology on the same website. Personally I like using the HD600/HD650 as a reference as I know them well and as they have been widely measured by most websites. Even doing so it's important to adjust for the average perceived level of the headphones as most graphs are aligned somewhere in the mids (500hz or 1hz) on most websites' comparison tools (if they have one). If a pair of headphones have a strong but narrow dip or hump at exactly 1hz, and if that's the frequency at which the graphs are aligned, you won't get the full picture without mentally adjusting for it.

If you look at the following you'll notice that, if you lower in your head the S50's overall FR relative to the HD600, the difference in FR between the two is milder than with a WH-1000 or Momentum :

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#12049/3992/325

You could say that relative to the HD600, they have a bit more bass, a little less lower mids, somewhat matching upper mids, and a little bit more trebles overall.

The somewhat wavy FR response in the bass region, with a double "hump" in the bass region, at around 50 and 130hz, is consistent with Soundguys' measurements :
https://www.soundguys.com/shure-aonic-50-review-30744/
So it's probably there. As the most prominent one (130hz) is quite narrow and not that huge (you should look at Rtings' measurements for the PX7 if you want to see what huge dips or humps look like) it's normal that it's hard to perceive.

I'm not a huge fan of RTing's measurements as they have shown some with rather strange results as far as repeatability is concerned (their measurements for the AirPods Pro's new firmware impact on ANC shows significantly different measurements for passive isolation with the new firmware which should be a massive red flag that something went wrong for obvious reasons, for example), and just like you I'm not quite sure that they understand well what they're measuring, and I don't give much toss for their opinions, but I see nothing out of the unexpected with their A50's FR measurements, particularly since the general traits of it are consistent with other websites.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 11:25 AM Post #352 of 1,309
FR response graphs are weighted in different ways across websites. What Rting displays as a "hump" is much less visible on Soundguys' website for example. Forget about what websites call the "target response" : it differs between them and the science behind it remains a source of endless debates.

When looking at FR graphs ideally one should always try to compare them to a known pair of headphones measured with the same methodology on the same website.
Excellent points, especially given that their assumed target response seems to be how they derive their decimal-point scores. It’s as much a part of their brand as it is potentially indicative of performance.

I'm not a huge fan of RTing's measurements as they have shown some with rather strange results as far as repeatability is concerned... and just like you I'm not quite sure that they understand well what they're measuring, and I don't give much toss for their opinions, but I see nothing out of the unexpected with their A50's FR measurements, particularly since the general traits of it are consistent with other websites.
I think it’s their statement that the Aonic bass is boomy, based on the hump in the graph, that seems wrong (in addition to their comparisons to other headphones like the XM3). In fact the Soundguys review is a really apt comparison since they’re looking at such similar measurements despite arriving at quite different conclusions. It was the Soundguys review—combined with the very helpful impressions from folks in this thread—that got me interested in trying the Aonic in the first place :k701smile: Kind of a bummer to think a writeup like this one would prevent folks from discovering one of the most unique, refreshing options in the wireless ANC space.

Alas, headphone reviews.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 11:30 AM Post #353 of 1,309
Excellent points, especially given that their assumed target response seems to be how they derive their decimal-point scores.

Don't get me started on scoring... it's the bane of my life (as a photographer as can't stand DXO's idiotic scoring system) :D.

I think it’s their statement that the Aonic bass is boomy, based on the hump in the graph, that seems wrong

"Boomy" is very subjective and I'm not sure that I know what it means in their mind... but if it's in reference to the A50's FR, then yep it's quite misplaced to use that term in comparison to, let's say, the Momentum 3 or the WH-1000.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 12:20 PM Post #354 of 1,309
FR response graphs are weighted in different ways across websites. What Rting displays as a "hump" is much less visible on Soundguys' website for example. Forget about what websites call the "target response" : it differs between them and the science behind it remains a source of endless debates.
When looking at FR graphs ideally one should always try to compare them to a known pair of headphones measured with the same methodology on the same website. Personally I like using the HD600/HD650 as a reference as I know them well and as they have been widely measured by most websites. Even doing so it's important to adjust for the average perceived level of the headphones as most graphs are aligned somewhere in the mids (500hz or 1hz) on most websites' comparison tools (if they have one). If a pair of headphones have a strong but narrow dip or hump at exactly 1hz, and if that's the frequency at which the graphs are aligned, you won't get the full picture without mentally adjusting for it.

If you look at the following you'll notice that, if you lower in your head the S50's overall FR relative to the HD600, the difference in FR between the two is milder than with a WH-1000 or Momentum :

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#12049/3992/325

You could say that relative to the HD600, they have a bit more bass, a little less lower mids, somewhat matching upper mids, and a little bit more trebles overall.

The somewhat wavy FR response in the bass region, with a double "hump" in the bass region, at around 50 and 130hz, is consistent with Soundguys' measurements :
https://www.soundguys.com/shure-aonic-50-review-30744/
So it's probably there. As the most prominent one (130hz) is quite narrow and not that huge (you should look at Rtings' measurements for the PX7 if you want to see what huge dips or humps look like) it's normal that it's hard to perceive.

I'm not a huge fan of RTing's measurements as they have shown some with rather strange results as far as repeatability is concerned (their measurements for the AirPods Pro's new firmware impact on ANC shows significantly different measurements for passive isolation with the new firmware which should be a massive red flag that something went wrong for obvious reasons, for example), and just like you I'm not quite sure that they understand well what they're measuring, and I don't give much toss for their opinions, but I see nothing out of the unexpected with their A50's FR measurements, particularly since the general traits of it are consistent with other websites.

This is very good post.

I never see good reviews like Tyll Hertsens reviews in the past. Is pity he isn't doing more reviews. For me he is more close with objective review, a combination of good measurements and very honest ('subjective') opinion.
 
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Jul 31, 2020 at 1:31 PM Post #355 of 1,309
I selling my sa50 one week ago for two reasons but specially one: the artificial leather is making my ears hot and sweating very quickly. This isn't a problem in the past because the weather isn't so hot. But with little temperature going up the ear pads aren't good at all.

The other reason is for my travel, because the headphone isn't possible folding, this isn't practical for the travels.

Is difficult decision selling the sa50 because I love the sound very much, I think in the sound is the best of all the (anc) wireless headphones I trying in the past.

I deciding buying again the sennheiser momentum 3 because is having real leather and is possible folding this headphone. The big very good surprise for me is that now the eq in the app isn't like before (terrible!) but now in the update of the firmware is having eq with 3 bands (bass, mids, treble). Isn't perfect (5 bands is minimum good for me) but is sufficient good for me. I can putting less bass and this setting is saving in the headphone so I can using in different devices.

The construction of the momentum 3 is more solid than sa50 too and I having more confidence when I'm using it, specially the quality of the ear pads and the headband.
Same here. I'm going to buy the Sennheiser Momentum 3 again. I 've heard the ANC has been improved. And the build quality and leather are delicious. My only complaint they fit worse on not big heads, and a plastic protection in the inner of the earpads that may end irritating the ears.

By the way, what color is your favorite, folks?
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 2:07 PM Post #356 of 1,309
I selling my sa50 one week ago for two reasons but specially one: the artificial leather is making my ears hot and sweating very quickly. This isn't a problem in the past because the weather isn't so hot. But with little temperature going up the ear pads aren't good at all.

The other reason is for my travel, because the headphone isn't possible folding, this isn't practical for the travels.

Yeah, AONIC 50 ear pads can get super sweaty for me too. The issue is that material is not breathable. So sweat just accumulate on them.

I don't have issue when I use it at home. But due to COVID, I work from home and I take multiple walks around neighborhood during the day. I use the headphone on these walks. And recently, it is not so hot, only around 75 deg F, and it is quite dry here in California. Every 5-10 minutes, I have to take off the headphones to wipe down my ears and the ear pads.

I hope 3rd party replacement ear cups will be on the market soon. I personally like velour or velvet-like fabric. They can also get hot (maybe even hotter than pleather), but will soak up the sweat or let the moisture evaporate better.

By the way, has anyone removed the ear cups? How does it come off? I tried to pull them straight off. I didn't use a lot of force because I don't want to break anything.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 2:12 PM Post #357 of 1,309
Yeah, AONIC 50 ear pads can get super sweaty for me too. The issue is that material is not breathable. So sweat just accumulate on them.

I don't have issue when I use it at home. But due to COVID, I work from home and I take multiple walks around neighborhood during the day. I use the headphone on these walks. And recently, it is not so hot, only around 75 deg F, and it is quite dry here in California. Every 5-10 minutes, I have to take off the headphones to wipe down my ears and the ear pads.

I hope 3rd party replacement ear cups will be on the market soon. I personally like velour or velvet-like fabric. They can also get hot (maybe even hotter than pleather), but will soak up the sweat or let the moisture evaporate better.

By the way, has anyone removed the ear cups? How does it come off? I tried to pull them straight off. I didn't use a lot of force because I don't want to break anything.

Rotate counter clockwise and click them off.. Lile the DALI IO series, a click mechanism could potentially support different pads..
 
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Jul 31, 2020 at 2:41 PM Post #358 of 1,309
Same here. I'm going to buy the Sennheiser Momentum 3 again. I 've heard the ANC has been improved. And the build quality and leather are delicious. My only complaint they fit worse on not big heads, and a plastic protection in the inner of the earpads that may end irritating the ears.

By the way, what color is your favorite, folks?

Hello Roberk.

I'm sorry but I don't remember if you having momentum 3 in the past but I telling you now I'm more happy now. Yes, the construction is better definitely! Isn't only the earpads and the headband but the buttons for play/pause and anc/ambient mode too is feeling better too, more solid. I'm not sure I understanding your comment about m3 irritating your ears. Now, after second time buying sennheiser m3, I'm appreciating the better comfort (for me) because my ears fitting better in the hole of ear pads (I think is little more big than sa50).

Is nice too that I can't hearing creaking noise with m3. With sa50 the right ear cup, if I moving it, is making creaking sound but only when I put the headphones (not when I using it) but I don't liking this. The sennheiser is more definitely having better construction in different aspects. And I know is silly saying this but I'm happy sennheiser only having "S" letter in ear pads and not the full name. I never liking the big shure name for the people seeing very easy. I don't like when the companies showing big name or logo. I know for many people this is very good and important, I really don't liking this!
 
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Jul 31, 2020 at 2:56 PM Post #359 of 1,309
@MayaTlab sorry for my maybe misleading wording, but I did not mean I don't technically understand FR graphs, weighting's, targets etc... just that these measurements bear no relation to what I hear. In that sense I don't see how they arrive at these graphs. But their overall system is totally worthless to me, since I don't think a product can be reduced to simple numbers if it's not a screw. And even then it may be an astounding number of relevant key figures...
Yes, I hope this nonsense does not keep anybody from trying out what i consider one of the best available wireless headphones.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 3:01 PM Post #360 of 1,309
I'm sorry but I don't remember if you having momentum 3 in the past but I telling you now I'm more happy now. Yes, the construction is better definitely! Isn't only the earpads and the headband but the buttons for play/pause and anc/ambient mode too is feeling better too, more solid. I'm not sure I understanding your comment about m3 irritating your ears. Now, after second time buying sennheiser m3, I'm appreciating the better comfort (for me) because my ears fitting better in the hole of ear pads (I think is little more big than sa50).

How do the vocals sound on Momentum 3 compared to Aonic 50? I like Aonic 50 vocals, sound full and rich. I don't like headphones having v-shaped frequency response, as the vocals can sound recessed or thin.

I'm just curious. I got the Aonic 50 at 50% discount. More importantly, I like the sound. Not looking to switch, just curious as Momentum 3 and B&W P7 were next on my list.
 

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