[R-Audiohead]

I wouldn't necessarily call it a negative quality, but something to consider--
 
This headphone will seem as though there is a slight dip in the low mids (midbass) region, especially when considering that many headphones actually have a slight emphasis here (840 most definitely being one of them, based on reviews).  A tight seal can (but not always) generate the sensation of accentuated midbass humps, so headphones that are closed and use pleather pads are susceptible to such an emphasis.  I mentioned in my review of the SRH-940 (see link in signature) that these headphones were one which actually reminded me of external loudspeaker setups for a couple reasons... you can read the review to get the specifics there but this may benefit you also for music production.  This midbass "recession" actually sounds more natural to me, and is part of the reason, now that I think about it, why these remind me so much of external setups, on top of the other specifics I mentioned in the review.
 
Ha! You wanted negatives and I just turned its potential weakness into a positive...
If I had to choose, I would say the treble is a tad grainy, but this could just be a result of the "super detail" they carry if that makes sense.
 
I hate to make your decision more complicated, but there may be another option to consider...
Of the headphones I have, I find my Shure 940s to be the headphone I grab when I just want to sit back and enjoy the music and not necessarily analyze it.  Honestly, my CharterOak SP-1 is extremely clinical in comparison and I feel actually houses more midrange detail.  For these reasons (and more), I think it actually would be a better studio monitor than the 940s would.  The SP-1 is extremely honest and I am finding out potentially very picky about the amp/source it is paired with... they're also difficult to drive.  If you can feed these right however, you will be rewarded greatly with a huge midrange and one of the fastest dynamic setups available (I am not alone when I say this, and I'm generally pretty careful about what I say).  It however, doesn't seem to extend like the 940 does.  Please, do not misinterpret me here... I still think the Shure headphone sounds analytical, but richer and less analytical than my CharterOak SP-1.  The SP-1 brings you a step closer to the music while it seems the 940 has a tad silkier sound and takes you a step back.  I even find the SRH-940 to be more forgiving than the SP-1, despite many people saying the 940 themselves are quite honest and not that forgiving.
 
Unfortunately, the SP-1 will be more money.  It is apparently an equivalent to the current German Maestro GMP450 PRO, although this hasn't been perfectly confirmed as the headphone seemed to be released at a time when MB Quart was turning over to German Maestro (long story here).  It is still unsure whether it is a GMP 450 PRO or MB Quart QP450 PRO equivalent.  I know the SP-1 isn't easy to come by, but it appears there is one for sale at the time being online for around 360 USD, or you can go with the GMP 450 PRO for 10 dollars cheaper and lose the extra potentially silly frills the SP-1 has (piano black box that could probably house a 1K plus headphone and some etchings on the aluminum exterior, and LIFETIME warranty).
 
Sorry if I made things harder.  I think either choice will work really well as a studio monitor-- I just think the 940 is better for music enjoyment than the SP-1 and the SP-1 better as a monitor than the 940.  I guess it depends on the extreme you are looking for and whether or not you have the juice to feed the SP-1.
 
I'd also like to note that the SP-1 is by far the most comfortable headphone I have ever tried... ears don't get hot and the clamping force is close to zero (poor isolation as a result) and they weigh nothing.  It is like having a pillow on your head that breaths... seriously.  This might be something also to consider when doing multi-hour listening sessions.  The 940s also are MUCH more portable
 
Gah I could go on forever... I hope this helped?

 

[Germancub]

I am actually considering selling my 440's and 840's because they never get any listening time anymore, ever since I got my 940's. Take that for what it's worth. As far as accuracy goes, the 940's and even the 440's are better than the 840's. 840's put a nice silk veil on all the music and make it sound "sexy" but not necessarily accurate.

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

I am actually considering selling my 440's and 840's because they never get any listening time anymore, ever since I got my 940's. Take that for what it's worth. As far as accuracy goes, the 940's and even the 440's are better than the 840's. 840's put a nice silk veil on all the music and make it sound "sexy" but not necessarily accurate.

shure srh840 has 2 options for me
 
number one it is very accurate and displays bad recordings for what they are or two they are actually crappy headphones. i will let you decide.
 
personally for me depending on the recording will depend on how good it sounds. but according to some people i am sadly mistaken.

 

[Germancub]

shure srh840 has 2 options for me
 
number one it is very accurate and displays bad recordings for what they are or two they are actually crappy headphones. i will let you decide.
 
personally for me depending on the recording will depend on how good it sounds. but according to some people i am sadly mistaken.

They're the farthest thing out there from crappy headphones. When I say not accurate, I meant in the Shure world. Compared to many other headphones they are very accurate, however for Shure, especially when directly compared to the flagship, they are colored and silky. Definitely revealing though, put crap in, out comes crap.

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

They're the farthest thing out there from crappy headphones. When I say not accurate, I meant in the Shure world. Compared to many other headphones they are very accurate, however for Shure, especially when directly compared to the flagship, they are colored and silky. Definitely revealing though, put crap in, out comes crap.

thats what i had assumed. and from my observations are what i noticed.

 

[Germancub]

Every time you post something negative about your 840's then praise them I can't help but play hot n cold in my head by Katy perry, it suits your relationship with them well, lol.

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

Every time you post something negative about your 840's then praise them I can't help but play hot n cold in my head by Katy perry, it suits your relationship with them well, lol.

thing is i don't hate them i love them. just they are very revealing and they make me picky on what i listen to with them.

 

[brat]

hmm... my shure srh-840 are VERY different with different sources/amps. They're absolutely neutral headphones by themselves. With bassy sources/amps they're bassy, with more balanced ones they're well balanced, with crappy soundcards can be sibilant or even bright. I listen to mine with many different amps and I'm surprised by their universality. Right now I'm listening with laptop+USB out+NuForce Icon and the sound is laid-back, smooth and well balanced and controlled, with a slight peak in the upper mids. With my Corda Prehead they sound much more bright and nervous...
SRH-840 are the most neutral headphones I've ever owned.

 

[great17]

hey.. I had no time to reply until now..
 
So I've taken a look at the GPM 450 pro(- I'm from Europe) and they are quite unknown here, what surprised me. There are hardly any reviews and the big stores, which have almost every kind of headphones, don't sell them. It's a shame that I can't compare them with the Shure 940. There is only one store that has them in stock, but honestly it's kind of a risk to order them without having access to any reviews(especially from guys who produce, like me) The price is exactly the same, compared to the 940.. Though Tough decision.
 
And of course, it depends on the amp you are using, but a decent one costs even more than the headphones do. Personally, I do not intend to buy an external amp, I'll keep with the amps of my Interface(Focusrite Saffire 6)

 

[lyons238]

to the OP: i find a lot of people on head fi who are just audiophiles and not producers to be claiming that such and such headphone sounds flat or not. but i dont really listen to that because most of them don't even know what a true flat sounds like in the first place. unless they have expensive studio monitors etc. because lets face it...headphones cannot possibly be as flat as actual monitors. one reason being that bass waves are long and they need a bit of a distance in order to be heard correctly. so headphones have to trick your ears into thinking your hearing a matured bass wave.
 
i would go over to gearslutz.com and check with those guys as well. those guys are not only audiophiles but long time producers.
 
i produce music as well (mainly dubstep and other electronic genres). i personally use the ultrasone pro 900 which everyone around here calls "far from flat" but when A B'ing them to my studio monitors they sound pretty **** close. just because the frequency graphs of the headphone doesnt show a flat response doesnt mean much. headphones (especially closed back) have to be designed not flat in order to sound somewhat flat to our ears. also the ultrasone pro 900s have s logic which give a sort of distant sound and adds depth to the signature of the headphone, many people perceive this as recessed mids or perhaps muddiness etc...but its just them not being used to s logic.
 
moral of the story...take what advice your given around here with a grain of salt (including mine). but like i said your best bet is to go over to gearslutz and talk to people about what headphones are good and flat for producing. many of those guys have been producing as long as i have been alive so...yeah.

 

[redwarrior191]

Quote:

to the OP: i find a lot of people on head fi who are just audiophiles and not producers to be claiming that such and such headphone sounds flat or not. but i dont really listen to that because most of them don't even know what a true flat sounds like in the first place. unless they have expensive studio monitors etc. because lets face it...headphones cannot possibly be as flat as actual monitors. one reason being that bass waves are long and they need a bit of a distance in order to be heard correctly. so headphones have to trick your ears into thinking your hearing a matured bass wave.
 
i would go over to gearslutz.com and check with those guys as well. those guys are not only audiophiles but long time producers.
 
i produce music as well (mainly dubstep and other electronic genres). i personally use the ultrasone pro 900 which everyone around here calls "far from flat" but when A B'ing them to my studio monitors they sound pretty **** close. just because the frequency graphs of the headphone doesnt show a flat response doesnt mean much. headphones (especially closed back) have to be designed not flat in order to sound somewhat flat to our ears. also the ultrasone pro 900s have s logic which give a sort of distant sound and adds depth to the signature of the headphone, many people perceive this as recessed mids or perhaps muddiness etc...but its just them not being used to s logic.
 
moral of the story...take what advice your given around here with a grain of salt (including mine). but like i said your best bet is to go over to gearslutz and talk to people about what headphones are good and flat for producing. many of those guys have been producing as long as i have been alive so...yeah.

EDIT: NVM

 

[R-Audiohead]

I'm going to throw this out there:
 
Maybe it is just that many head-fiers don't have extended experience with external setups like most music producers do.  This is coming from a guy who is (relatively, of course) new to the headphone scene but has spent quite a lot of time in the external department.
 
Regarding the comment about the bass waves and making closed headphones sound a certain way in order to "trick" the ear into being a more "mature bass wave"--
 
This is a very stimulating thought, and something I will certainly spend some time thinking about.  I always thought that was quite the feat to produce lower frequencies in such a confined space... anyone who knows anything about external setups know that low end drivers like subs vary drastically in sound type depending on the area of air they are moving around in both the room and their container.  Manipulating an enclosure for a subwoofer can make it sound entirely different.  The space IS very important and it seems extremely restricted with headphones...spatial variation as well.  I suppose it is all relative though, using smaller drivers and such means extremely subtle variations in space (i.e. mounting depth/angle of the driver... the physical area of the air) produce massive results.
 
Something else to think about when replicating a flat sound, as you would hear it from an external monitor:
 
Again, anyone who knows anything about external setups, or even sound in general, knows that higher frequencies dissipate faster than low frequencies.  This means that positioning of the monitor changes everything, since the further or closer you get to the unit the balance can change accordingly.  At what distance does the monitor sound flat? This of course depends on input power, and even more so the variation in the sensitivity of each crossed over driver in the unit... meaning that volume as well as distance both make can make a drastic difference.  This is where headphones have one advantage I feel... in that the distance between your ear and the driver is fairly constant given that you do not manipulate the pads and generally you don't have to deal with varying sensitivities per driver since there is one full range unit.  The biggest difference between two of Sennheiser's best headphones, the HD600 and HD650, is a result of attempting to mimic external setups.  I read somewhere (really, really wish I could site this at the moment) that a "dip" in the treble response of the HD650 is suppose to indeed mimic this dissipation of higher frequencies you'd hear when sitting on the couch, many meters away from your loudspeaker.  While the HD600 response appears flatter on paper, it could be argued that it indeed does sound less flat than the HD650 when your point of reference is sound from an external loudspeaker.
 
What is the point of me writing all of this?  I think there is a TON of validity to what lyons238 said.  A flat response from a headphone driver right next to your ear many even sound bright or treble-centric because there wasn't time to let the higher frequencies dissipate to a "natural" level.  In comparison, loudspeakers which put out a truly flat response will sound different than a headphone that puts out a truly flat response because space does make a big difference.  For this, it is difficult for me to ever take an FR graph too seriously.  Externals are generally measured at 1 meter away for sound pressure levels (correct me if I am wrong)... a distance much closer than most people sit at when listening to a loudspeaker.  Comparatively, headphones are measured using a dummy head (I think?), using a distance that is almost exactly what a person will actually be experiencing.  "Flat" just means something entirely different for an external speaker than it does for headphones to our ears because of this spatial issue.
 
Essentially my point is that lyons238 is very right, but potentially categorized and analyzed the reason for his correctness incorrectly (no bashing here, just food for thought!)  I think the difference isn't audiophiles vs. music producers... but that many head-fiers have spent all of their time and love for audio (or at least most of it) in the headphone world and not in the external setup world.  Audio is so massively diverse that it is really easy to fall into one category and become an expert, much like medical doctors do.
 
The difference is probably those who have experience with external setups AND headphones vs. those who only have experience (or mostly) with headphones... and that those who produce music professionally likely have had equal experience with both.
 
That is such a great point you made lyons238 and I wish more head-fiers and potential consumers had this awareness.  Some of the better advice I've heard around here

 

[R-Audiohead]

Also to note for the OP:
 
There is a thread here for the SP-1 and GMP450 PRO, but I feel the recent activity there has been ultra critical... and while this is good for head-fi, it can also be harmful to potential consumers because I feel it doesn't properly represent just how much of an under-appreciated "sleeper" phone the GMP450 PRO or SP-1 really is.
 
Can your amp drive 300 ohms of resistance easily? If so, I really recommend them.

 

[blackzarg]

I wouldn't call the M50's hype. They have been consistently recommended for the past two years, and I can attest that they are indeed great headphones in the price range. The SRH840/940, on the other hand, are newer to the market. I personally enjoy the SRH840 more than the M50's, but I understand the M50's appeal.
 
Quote:

+1. After all the hype of the M50s in this forum then there are a lot of talk about the famous HD598. Now we have a lot noise about the SRH940. There are no doubt these are above average HPs  but since they are new in the market, there are a lot of excitement, personal emotion WOW factor. I would recommend a wait and see strategy for  a few months. After all the dust being settled then we may have a clearer picture. YMMV.    
 

 

 

[lyons238]

Quote:

I'm going to throw this out there:
 
Maybe it is just that many head-fiers don't have extended experience with external setups like most music producers do.  This is coming from a guy who is (relatively, of course) new to the headphone scene but has spent quite a lot of time in the external department.
 
Regarding the comment about the bass waves and making closed headphones sound a certain way in order to "trick" the ear into being a more "mature bass wave"--
 
This is a very stimulating thought, and something I will certainly spend some time thinking about.  I always thought that was quite the feat to produce lower frequencies in such a confined space... anyone who knows anything about external setups know that low end drivers like subs vary drastically in sound type depending on the area of air they are moving around in both the room and their container.  Manipulating an enclosure for a subwoofer can make it sound entirely different.  The space IS very important and it seems extremely restricted with headphones...spatial variation as well.  I suppose it is all relative though, using smaller drivers and such means extremely subtle variations in space (i.e. mounting depth/angle of the driver... the physical area of the air) produce massive results.
 
Something else to think about when replicating a flat sound, as you would hear it from an external monitor:
 
Again, anyone who knows anything about external setups, or even sound in general, knows that higher frequencies dissipate faster than low frequencies.  This means that positioning of the monitor changes everything, since the further or closer you get to the unit the balance can change accordingly.  At what distance does the monitor sound flat? This of course depends on input power, and even more so the variation in the sensitivity of each crossed over driver in the unit... meaning that volume as well as distance both make can make a drastic difference.  This is where headphones have one advantage I feel... in that the distance between your ear and the driver is fairly constant given that you do not manipulate the pads and generally you don't have to deal with varying sensitivities per driver since there is one full range unit.  The biggest difference between two of Sennheiser's best headphones, the HD600 and HD650, is a result of attempting to mimic external setups.  I read somewhere (really, really wish I could site this at the moment) that a "dip" in the treble response of the HD650 is suppose to indeed mimic this dissipation of higher frequencies you'd hear when sitting on the couch, many meters away from your loudspeaker.  While the HD600 response appears flatter on paper, it could be argued that it indeed does sound less flat than the HD650 when your point of reference is sound from an external loudspeaker.
 
What is the point of me writing all of this?  I think there is a TON of validity to what lyons238 said.  A flat response from a headphone driver right next to your ear many even sound bright or treble-centric because there wasn't time to let the higher frequencies dissipate to a "natural" level.  In comparison, loudspeakers which put out a truly flat response will sound different than a headphone that puts out a truly flat response because space does make a big difference.  For this, it is difficult for me to ever take an FR graph too seriously.  Externals are generally measured at 1 meter away for sound pressure levels (correct me if I am wrong)... a distance much closer than most people sit at when listening to a loudspeaker.  Comparatively, headphones are measured using a dummy head (I think?), using a distance that is almost exactly what a person will actually be experiencing.  "Flat" just means something entirely different for an external speaker than it does for headphones to our ears because of this spatial issue.
 
Essentially my point is that lyons238 is very right, but potentially categorized and analyzed the reason for his correctness incorrectly (no bashing here, just food for thought!)  I think the difference isn't audiophiles vs. music producers... but that many head-fiers have spent all of their time and love for audio (or at least most of it) in the headphone world and not in the external setup world.  Audio is so massively diverse that it is really easy to fall into one category and become an expert, much like medical doctors do.
 
The difference is probably those who have experience with external setups AND headphones vs. those who only have experience (or mostly) with headphones... and that those who produce music professionally likely have had equal experience with both.
 
That is such a great point you made lyons238 and I wish more head-fiers and potential consumers had this awareness.  Some of the better advice I've heard around here

 
thanks man glad you agree. and it was good to hear your thoughts on the subject. but yeah last night i was a little drunk lol and finally decided to say something about how subjective and different the opinions are from audiophiles vs producers and why. and like you said i have more experience outside of the headphone vs inside the headphone, unlike many on these forums. 
 
but on a side note, no matter what headphones or monitors you get the most important thing is not them being totally flat, but that you learn them inside and out so that you can accommodate any inaccuracies they have in your mix. for instance, if you know your monitors or headphones have a low mid bump you need to make sure that your low mids in your mix sound a little bit too full, that way when you hear it on a speaker without a low mid bump it will sound good...you get the idea. this is why so many producers will have 2 sets of monitors, a set of hi-fi speakers, and a couple sets of headphones. if you know every speaker inside and out you will be able to perfect your mix throughout the entire spectrum.
 
oh just to let you know i am no means a professional...not even close. making music is just a hobby of mine and i am still pretty new to it in the whole scheme of things.