[WallofHooligans]

After reading several pages on the very long Orthodynamic Roundup post. I decided to purchase a couple vintage orthos. Here's my additions from the past month.

Yamaha YH-3, YH-1 and Fostex T10.

Do you have a favorite of the 3? Do you like them compared to your modern gear?

 

[jksoon]

Do you have a favorite of the 3? Do you like them compared to your modern gear?

So far I have been enjoying the Fostex T10 the most. I prefer the mids of the T10 out of these 3. It also seems to be cleaner sounding (maybe less resonant casing?). Build quality seems to be better than the Yamahas. Bass and treble are a bit rolled off. As most members posted, the T10 sounds fairly good stock / unmodified. It pairs quite well with my Audio GD NFB-12 but sounds a little dry with my Grace m9xx, though better treble extension. The bass and mids are considerably better with the Audio GD and the highs seem a bit rolled off. With the Grace, it has less bass, the mids are not as sweet, but the highs have a bit more presence. Running the Grace outputs thru a Nakamichi SR-3 Receiver with a powerful headphone jack (that I use mostly to power the AKG K340), the bass and mids are a little improved, while the highs are a have better focus. Seems that the T10 takes advantage of the extra power and there's more interaction on the sound when combining with various DAC / AMPs compared to the Yamahas. The Yamahas seem to be more forgiving, could be the 50 Ohms impedence of the Fostex vs the 150 Ohms of the Yamahas. I still do quite enjoy the treble of the YH-3.

If I could, I would combine the bass of the YH-1, the mids of the T10 and the highs of the YH-3.

I'll be modifying the YH-1 as it's bass heavy and dark sounding, but I see potential. I have australian wool (already in the mail) and disc of felt for behind the drivers and damping material (either blue tack or car audio damping material) for the casing.

Update on the YH-1, 1/14/19: Removing the yellow foam damping and replacing with 1mm thick felt behind the drivers and filling in the remaining cavities with Australian Wool Noil opened up the mids quite a bit, reduced the overpowering bass and the highs are a bit improved. Better results than I expected. Not as dark sounding anymore. As many have posted in the ortho showdown thread, these take well to additional damping.

The YH-3 has the most treble out of the 3 and the lowest amount of bass. I'll have to take it apart and see if I can properly dampen it as well.

Not quite an ortho, but my AKG K340 hybrid will out resolve the 3 cans above, but requires good amplification.

As for modern alternative, when I feel like listening for micro details, deeper bass, wider soundstage, I'll use one of my more modern planar magenetics. But I have been really enjoying these vintage orthos and can't believe how good they are for their age. I see myself purchasing more orthos. When I listen to 70's & 80's music with vintage AKG or these new to me orthodynamics I notice that they are a good pairing, but I got my theories on this.

 

[jksoon]

I think I found the the proper period correct headphone / preamp match. I'm gonna pair it with my 7-tubed Luxman CL-35 Mk3 preamp from around 1977, which took me about 5 years of convincing a friend to sell to me. I happened to be staring at it and forgot it has a pretty good sounding output from the headphone jack, about as good as my Musical Fidelity X-Can v3 headphone amp.

 

[slotcutter]

So far I have been enjoying the Fostex T10 the most. I prefer the mids of the T10 out of these 3. .

It's good to know, what's coming - I just bought a pair of Fostex T10, they're on the way. I also own a pair of Yamaha HP-2 and I find them rather complete even if a little dull (although I may as well say "forgiving").

In the meantime, I just got a pair of 1971 Koss Red Devils, they seem to be a rare bird even in the US, let alone Europe.
All I had to do was replace the foam in the cups, which mutated over the years into something sticky and almost fluid. I added one cotton disc (makeup removal type) in each cup, placed a thin layer of fabric (I'd torn it off some ear cushions I had laying around) under the Koss's ear pads, covering the aperture and I also cut a rubber ring out of a regular computer mouse pad and put it on top of the cloth and around the "knob" through which the sound actually comes out from the speakers.

These simple manipulations subjectively made the red devils sound milder, removing some harshness from upper mids and adding some focus to the lower frequencies without taking too much weight off them.

A rather enjoyable pair, I'd say...

 

[jksoon]

It's good to know, what's coming - I just bought a pair of Fostex T10, they're on the way. I also own a pair of Yamaha HP-2 and I find them rather complete even if a little dull (although I may as well say "forgiving")....

You could try to do some similar mods to your HP-2 headphones as they take damping mods fairly well. I had really good results changing the damping on my YH-1s. I basically did the following:

I dampened my YH-1 with a disc of 1mm felt behind the drivers and swapped some Australian wool noil where the factory yellow foam material was and got a drastic change in sound. The first time I used too much wool noil which ended up over dampening and the bass disappeared. I tried 2 discs of felt behind each driver + factory foam, no luck. Then I settled with 1 disc of felt and not over stuffing wool noil behind each driver and got much better results than I expected. In my case I noticed that the YH-1 has a flatter response now in a good way, quite musical. Before it was dark and bass heavy. Vocals are nicer and now they actually have some treble. Bass is still there, just not over powering. Damping can be a tricky thing, but I'm glad I did it. I went from maybe selling them to I'm keeping them.

The Fostex T10 are fun headphones. I'd be curious as to your thoughts on the sound signature, especially the mids when you get them.

Those Koss Red Devils sure look to be in super nice condition.

 

[WallofHooligans]

Those are in great condition. Awesome. Would love to see the insides.

 

[SHAMuuu]

It's good to know, what's coming - I just bought a pair of Fostex T10, they're on the way. I also own a pair of Yamaha HP-2 and I find them rather complete even if a little dull (although I may as well say "forgiving").

In the meantime, I just got a pair of 1971 Koss Red Devils, they seem to be a rare bird even in the US, let alone Europe.
All I had to do was replace the foam in the cups, which mutated over the years into something sticky and almost fluid. I added one cotton disc (makeup removal type) in each cup, placed a thin layer of fabric (I'd torn it off some ear cushions I had laying around) under the Koss's ear pads, covering the aperture and I also cut a rubber ring out of a regular computer mouse pad and put it on top of the cloth and around the "knob" through which the sound actually comes out from the speakers.

These simple manipulations subjectively made the red devils sound milder, removing some harshness from upper mids and adding some focus to the lower frequencies without taking too much weight off them.

A rather enjoyable pair, I'd say...

that is one cool looking set sir

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/280263064/1971-koss-stereophones-print-ad-red

 

[nick n]

There's loads of space in there, nothing too special about the insides.
The baffle face has a raised lip with a flange a bit inwards from the outer edges, and this is what the foam rubber pads slip over.
the pads have a lip on them.
So that is a great idea about decreasing that space with some mouse mat material.
There are two versions, one with the red cable that has a thinly twisted small strand old school copper that is hard to solder to, but I have not looked at the black cable's insides.
Insides can be seeen here in my really old post, so pics were not that great at the time.
The post might not be either
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/orthodynamic-roundup.111193/page-1311#post-8310152

here's a link from this thread showing the driver front.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/show-us-your-vintage-headphones.420490/page-36#post-8808385

slotcutter: is that a Lisa 3 portable amp? or something else?
Maybe it is an Ifi unit.

 

[slotcutter]

Maybe it is an Ifi unit.

Yes, sir, that's it, an ifi i-can. A rather neutral yet powerful little unit. Nothing special about it, though, just adds some power. I use it with my WM8740 iBasso Anaconda and PCM1793 SMSL DACs.

Thank you for describing the insides of them Red Devils for the guys so accurately, I was really reluctant to take them apart again. I am not a handy-man type of guy, unfortunately and I'd like to keep what I managed once to put together in one piece more or less tidily.

I should say I also tried a variety of different pads and cushions in lieu of the stock pads, each iteration resulting in dramatic changes to the Koss's sound, yet i decided to keep the foamed rubber pads as the most authentic and pleasant sounding option.

 

[WallofHooligans]

Nice replies, good information. What about the earpads though, are they comfortable at all? I've seen them before on old koss and some telex stuff, but I've always been hesitant to try it out.
Reminds me of the "liquid filled" cushions from the old koss earphones, they honestly do sound good, but they sacrifice a lot of comfort. Same with the air filled versions on the new pro4aa and all pro4aaa models etc.

 

[slotcutter]

What about the earpads though, are they comfortable at all?

I put them on straight out of the box and at first they felt like a torture to my ears but after a few minutes that rubber gets warmer and softer and I find them quite comfortable, actually. They require a rather precise positioning, though, you have to make sure the openings are aligned with your ear channel opening. If they slide to the side, you may get a slightly muffled treble. It is a matter of a few minutes though, I got used to putting them on correctly very soon.

 

[slotcutter]

As I'm new to this forum and I all I really do here is read this thread, I'm going to ask a dumb question: has anyone of you guys heard of the Soviet replica of Yamaha HP-2 named TDS 16-40 Echo (ТДС-16-40 "Эхо")?

After swapping the ear pads I found a really striking resemblance in the sound signatures of these two models, the one that evaded me when I used replacement pads on my Yamahas.

If this is old news, I apologize for this message. If not, I may elaborate it a little more.

 

[nick n]

haa! yes the smaller 50mm drivered one. Known commonly as Smela here but I think they were made elsewhere also ( even yes Lvov/Kiev )
since I have both white lettering type and black lettering type with different factory name if i recall the manuals correctly

Great idea on the pad swap I have a set that are restuffed original stock pads, and also a set with much nicer fitting new pads ( 65mm diameter ).
What size pads are you using?
Headband is torturous too stock as you likely know.
Orthodynamic Roundup | Page 1533 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org
^ finished here : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/orthodynamic-roundup.111193/page-1545#post-10617056

Orthodynamic Roundup | Page 1624 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

Orthodynamic Roundup | Page 1700 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

You'll find lots of info on Soviet era stuff in the Orthodynamic Roundup Thread ( Elektronika, Amfiton, Echo etc...5, 5M, 7, 15, 16, H25C, 21, 16-40C ).
I'm not the only one, those links i posted were just easier to remember
I also enjoy the larger 55mm TDS-16 ( Kiev as they are known )

Please post ANY impressions on ANY stuff. It's all good to read everyone has a unique take on things.
I'd sure like to know a bit about some of the Feenix models. I had an MGC that used a paper cone though I saved the headband assembly.
The assembly is a copy of the Sony DRZ5, 6, 7 things.

Now back to this thread, but we are talking vintage at least

 

[slotcutter]

Known commonly as Smela here but I think they were made elsewhere also ( even yes Lvov/Kiev )

Yes, mine are Kiev-made. I've bought three pairs, they're dirt-cheap here.
I'm on the run at the moment but I will post some pics and share some thoughts later tonight.
P.s. I just realized my old man worked for the research institute in Kiev, which actually designed (or ripped) this headphone...

 

[slotcutter]

Del (dbl)