Shanling ET3 - Dedicated Digital CD Transport, With USB Drive and Wi-Fi Support

[DrDen]

Good to know. Btw what DSD setting do you use on the shanling?

As R26 is primarily a PCM DAC (I maybe wrong), it seems better playing PCM with it. Again, less problems with I2S compatibility.
I would rely on experience of the most sophisticated listening room owner, although his DAC seems not the most natural sounding. The speakers/headphones and amplifiers mean a lot. Only your own ears can prove something to you (not scientific at all, sorry).
You like what you hear or not. Tube gear looks awful from the measurement point of view, but we like it.

 

[BillHart]

Here is an article that can help you to understand what are DSD and PCM formats:
https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/dsd-vs-pcm-myth-vs-truth/

Thanks again for this read. I am obviously familiar with the early history of recording (analog), but the problems, myths and comparison between DSD and PCM are interesting. I remember this vendor when he was making modifications to other hardware and now has his own line of gear. What is your practical "take-away" from his observations? That one should decode in whatever format the recording was done originally? That the quantization errors resulting from not relying on a multiple of 44.1 (original Redbook standard) do not make DSD superior? This would suggest that the USB output on the Shanling is truer than simply relying on upsampling on the player; that I need not focus on the I2S output (trying to find a custom cable supplier has been difficult and though I have the parts here to "make my own" it is a tedious task).
I do have an R2R DAC here, a Border Patrol, which is limited in what it can process.
I'd very much appreciate how you see these issues in practical application using the Shanling. And do appreciate your posting the article.
Bill

 

[Shanling]

I got the eddict app stabile, but no contact with the ET3, despite the ET3 being connected to my phone via bt

Please be aware that connecting to phone for BLuetooth streaming and SyncLink control are two different things.

Would recommend unpairing phone from your BT settings on phone, then opening Eddict App and doing the pairing again in the SyncLink menu.

Hmm. I may have missed the boat here. I just ordered a PS Audio perfect wave mki refurbished. Is it true that the shanling will not connect to it with standard I2S interconnect due to a different I2S pinout?

We use same pinout as PS Audio.

One oddity re file management. I now have three versions of Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section in different resolutions and formats. Rather than separate each as an album they appear on the Eddict app as one, where each track is a multiple, rather than showing each version as a separate album. I'm pretty confident that if I look at the drive on my computer, I'll see separate folders, b/c that's how I loaded them. Is there an easy way to rectify this?

If your Album tags are the same between them, the system will only see them as the same album and will list them that way.

Workaround for this is to adjust the Album tag for these files, so they differ, and then re-scan the music library.

I guess the other issue that arises here-- I'm very good with analog, but have big gaps in my understanding of digital, is that by going via USB, I appear to be getting DSD on the DAC without the need for (additional) transcoding* if that is the term. Is there a loss of quality in converting the usb signal out of the Shanling to I2S using a DDC?

USB Ouutput from ET3 is not undergoing any resampling or other adjustments. If you send out DSD, your DAC will receive DSD.
Difference between I2S and USB, which one is better, is difficult to say, as it often depends on the design of the DAC.
We like to use I2S and believe for most DACs it offers the best audio solution.

 

[sabocat]

Thanks Shanling for letting me know about the PS Audio. On that subject, I imagine one would need to change up settings based on how a particular CD was recorded and mastered. For example, would it be better just to hit bypass on ordinary red book CDs and let the PS Audio do its DSD conversion, or do you want to match it with the same DSD setting?

And with SACD, how would that work?

I’m currently using a Neko Audio D100mkii with a DH labs glass master toslink cable, which easily gets me 192khz upsampling. Sounds pretty great.

 

[DrDen]

Thanks Shanling for letting me know about the PS Audio. On that subject, I imagine one would need to change up settings based on how a particular CD was recorded and mastered. For example, would it be better just to hit bypass on ordinary red book CDs and let the PS Audio do its DSD conversion, or do you want to match it with the same DSD setting?

And with SACD, how would that work?

I’m currently using a Neko Audio D100mkii with a DH labs glass master toslink cable, which easily gets me 192khz upsampling. Sounds pretty great.

Only you could answer this question after your new DAC arrive (my DAC converts anything to DSD too, but I use only PCM upsampled to 192kHz by ET3 so far). Would be great to hear your impressions.
ET3 doesn’t support SACD.

 

[BillHart]

I am experiencing a nasty click between DSD tracks using the ET3 playing from an SSD 1TB drive. Output on ET3 is usb since I have not yet found a cable pinout match between it and my Gustard X26Pro to wire the two devices directly. I did get a Gustard U18 DDC today and rather than see high rate PCM on the DAC, I'm finally seeing DSD: Shanling usb out to U18DDC usb in; U18 output is I2S via high quality HDMI cable (Gustard's default setting matches standard HDMI) into the DAC I2S. I don't think it is the DDC causing the problem, but the silence or "gap" between tracks on DSD (at least on 512 files) seems to cause the digital front end to lose track for a few seconds and that's where the click/snap noise arises. I seem to recall the same snap/click between tracks on DSD files even going straight from the ET3 to the DAC via USB and I can verify that the next time I fire up that system.
I've seen anecdotals on the Web about exactly this problem re DSD files arising with other digital gear. Is it inherent in the nature of DSD files? (These are not "rips" but legit DSD downloads). I don't seem to have the problem with hi-rez PCM files playing through the chain described above.
As an aside, I did notice an immediate difference in sound quality with the DDC inserted into the chain; it seems like an improvement but I usually withhold judgment until I've established more time/burn in/acclimate. I gather that the folks at Shanling are off to CanJam NYC but wrote to them as well. Any insight would be welcomed.

 

[plikestechno]

Yeah dsd pop is a thing.

Used to drive me nuts with Tidal when upcoverting through Audirvana. I think it happens when it loses stream, converts to pcm because theres nothing dsd there and then pops when switching back between pcm and dsd.

It varies between gear. On some gear I've experienced it as a quick, mild click sound or tiny pop but on my old topping d90 through USB it would send a full freuqnency blast through my gear when i lost stream.

Thankfully it never did it too often. I find it very, very rarely happens now because I use CDs, Apple Music over airplay and a USB drive of PCM only files and all the upsampling to DSD 512 happens in the ET3 directly into the Denafrips Pontus II that I have now via i2s.

And when it does happen, its thankfully just a tiny click through my system

 

[Sphere 57]

I'm considering getting this player, but the not "true gapless" CD operation is setting off an alarm bell to me.

I had a streamer that was claimed to play gaplessly, but faked it by splicing tracks together. It would be apparently gapless on live recordings where the tracks changed during a lull in the performance, but on DJ mixes of electronic dance music, where tracks change during dense passages, the splice was jarring.

On the Shanling CR60 thread, a user reports that gaps are very briefly audible on that transport.

Are there any owners of the ET3 here that listen to House or Techno mix CDs? How does it perform with this type of material?

 

[jmcbride]

I'm considering getting this player, but the not "true gapless" CD operation is setting off an alarm bell to me.

I had a streamer that was claimed to play gaplessly, but faked it by splicing tracks together. It would be apparently gapless on live recordings where the tracks changed during a lull in the performance, but on DJ mixes of electronic dance music, where tracks change during dense passages, the splice was jarring.

On the Shanling CR60 thread, a user reports that gaps are very briefly audible on that transport.

Are there any owners of the ET3 here that listen to House or Techno mix CDs? How does it perform with this type of material?

It seems to play CDs gapless for me.
My go-to CD to test this is Dark Side of the Moon. The tracks flow right into the next, and I never heard a gap in the music.

JMcB

 

[gazjam]

Good to know. Btw what DSD setting do you use on the shanling?

I connect over i2s,
under "IIS Output" I have DSD channels swapped (ET3 seems to swap channels when playing DSD into the DS dac)

Also,
I've found in DSD Output Mode,
DOP setting sounds better than "Native", which wasn't what I'd expect, but it just sound that little bit more tactile and in the room, particularly with drums.
"Native"sounds a bit more...DSD'ish, softer and rounded off.

Not sure what else?
It should just work with a PS Audio Dac

 

[DrDen]

I'm considering getting this player, but the not "true gapless" CD operation is setting off an alarm bell to me.

I had a streamer that was claimed to play gaplessly, but faked it by splicing tracks together. It would be apparently gapless on live recordings where the tracks changed during a lull in the performance, but on DJ mixes of electronic dance music, where tracks change during dense passages, the splice was jarring.

On the Shanling CR60 thread, a user reports that gaps are very briefly audible on that transport.

I think you’ve mixed up two different devices. No gaps heard while playing CD on the ET3. Only a single glitch after a 65 minute (certainly fixable by firmware).

 

[sabocat]

I connect over i2s,
under "IIS Output" I have DSD channels swapped (ET3 seems to swap channels when playing DSD into the DS dac)

Also,
I've found in DSD Output Mode,
DOP setting sounds better than "Native", which wasn't what I'd expect, but it just sound that little bit more tactile and in the room, particularly with drumps.
"Native"sounds a bit more...DSD'ish, softer and rounded off.

Not sure what else?
It should just work with a PS Audio Dac

Right, but aside from using the i2s cable, what setting do you use on the shanling, bypass or DSD 128 or higher? I have bypass option, a list of DSD from low to high numbers, and 192khz and higher for pcm, all as options for the shanling under the SRC setup. I see the system options and playback options you noted as well.

 

[BillHart]

Yeah dsd pop is a thing.

DOP setting sounds better than "Native", which wasn't what I'd expect,

Interesting, but the nasty "pop" I was hearing between native DSD tracks seems to have disappeared when I tried the DOP setting. @gazjam, you may not have intended to solve this problem I was raising in post #1206, but you did! I haven't compared the sonics between the two but will do so. I was surprised how much better overall the sound was using the I2S output through the addition of the DDC to the digital front end chain. (This was true not only with DSD files, but hi-rez PCM and even files encoded at 44.1).
I'm not into analytical/clinical sound, and look for lack of grain in the mids, overall cohesiveness top to bottom, as well as depth and solidity of image and the harmonics, including the attack and decay envelope you hear on a high quality recording. The more it sounds like real instruments than a reproduction, the happier I am. Right now, with admittedly modest digital gear, I'm getting some of the best sound I've achieved from a digital source. And the vinyl/tube/SET/Avantgarde horns can present a very compelling "in the room" illusion in a fairly large room.
Next step will be to add an external clock- I bought a relatively cheap one with the ability to calibrate via GPS. It should be here in a couple weeks or less. Thanks, all for your input, whether or not you intended to solve the issues I've been presenting to this board.

 

[DrDen]

Output on ET3 is usb since I have not yet found a cable pinout match between it and my Gustard X26Pro to wire the two devices directly.

Take a look at the picture amrutmhatre90 posted on Feb10.

 

[BillHart]

Take a look at the picture amrutmhatre90 posted on Feb10.

Dr. Den- you mean the Cobra head post #1156 and the series of photos thereafter, showing the HDMI plug with a snap enclosure containing screw-down terminals? I have those parts here and had started working on such a DIY cable prior to that. It's a lot of little wires to stuff into a small space, necessitating that "mesh" covering around the cable/plug assembly. The DIY approach does have the advantage of experimenting with the different pin outs, and I do have the diagrams for the Shanling and the X26Pro pin outs. I suppose I could complete the cable with some time set aside and compare it to the set up now, which is working great. Yes, I'm going USB into the DDC and I2S out into the DAC (which requires only a standard HDMI cable and I'm using the shortest DH Labs 2.1 model) . And, by using the DOP setting, I've eliminated the nasty pop between tracks.
If I am misreading your post here, my apologies.
Bill