Seriously why so much hate on Bose?
Jun 20, 2010 at 11:17 PM Post #136 of 187

 
Quote:
Since blind tests do repeatedly show that audio equipment does not sound a s different as audiophiles claim, people buy audio products based on adverts, reviews, image, brand name, style far more than many an audiophile is prepared to admit.


I agree completely.

 
Quote:
We'd all be wearing studio monitors then... I'd rather not. Different ppl want to hear different things out of their music. IE Guitarists want guitars. Bassists want bass.


Yes, different sound signatures for different people's tastes...

 
Quote:
Unless you were there in the studio, how would you know? Otherwise go for accuracy and detail and an even frequency response.


Yes, you have to be in the studio to hear how it was meant to be heard.

 
Quote:
good point too... ud have to standardize all studio monitors all artists use to hear what the artists hear out of the final product themselves. 


Yes, everything standardized.
 
 
 
These are all very good points.  These all make perfect logical sense to me.
 
Jun 20, 2010 at 11:28 PM Post #138 of 187
lol I should label that post with IMO all over it.
I merely expressed what I feel about Bose, and my experience with the company.
 
EDIT: Edited previous post.
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 12:06 AM Post #139 of 187
Great rebuttals, both of you, I am glad to be so engaged and have gotten others involved.
 
Quote:
Fair point.  I think what rubs this particular community the wrong way is the simple fact that none of the serious audio geeks has any use for a pair of Bose cans.  And while there's plenty of room for differences and conflicts between hardcore geeks, none of these people spending serious money on source material, players, DACs, amps and cables is remotely interested in Bose.  Bose is not audiophile material.  It's a consumer product sold at Best Buy and Target.  It's "audiophile" to a general public that knows little, if anything, about the larger universe of audiophile products.
 
In other words, Bose is a poseur product.
 
I think you could make it sound pretty good if you tweaked it.  Given all the things that audiophiles do to get the most performance out of their gear, I'm sure a pair of Bose cans could be raised to a decent level if given the same love and attention.  But if you wanted a pair of dark and boomy cans, aren't the DT770s legendary in that department?
 
Think about it this way.  Headfi geeks go through life getting laughed at by people who wear cheap headphones and wonder why anybody would spend a grand or two on them.  They get smirks and stares from people who think you'd have to have a hole in your head to care about lossless recordings, silver-plated cables and esoteric amps.  These people know they're not "cool" in the eyes of the general public, but they're okay with that because sound matters.
 
Enter Bose, with its corporate ad wagon and its sausage-casing consumer boxes priced as "expensive" for what the average schmo would pay for headphones.  For $200 to $300, these audio newbies now have what they regard as "the best you can buy."  They're still laughing at the audio geek,  but this time it's because the geeks don't have Bose, which is laughably low-rent for the audio world.
 
I had a colleague who spoke to me of his plans to get a pair of Bose.  For him, it was an expensive jump but one he was willing to make, if only to treat himself for all the hassles of a tough year.  When he asked me about it, I tried not to rain on his parade, but it was all I could do to steel myself as other colleagues rattled off the opinion that "Bose is the best."  When he asked me how audiophiles view Bose, I calmly and gently told him the truth, which surprised him.  I sugarcoated my response, then brought him a pair of lowly PortaPros, which blew his mind.
 
"These," I said, "are the bottom rung of a ladder that reaches much higher."
 
The next day, I brought him a pair of HF2s and he was in Heaven.  Not everyone likes the HF2s, mind you, nor am I offering them as the epitome of headphone design, though I happen to like them very much.  For some, all Grados are too bright.  It's just that most people who shop for Bose have either never heard them or have only heard them from those in-store demos.  What's more, most have never heard a decent headphone in their life.  Their only frame of reference is the $20 stuff you can find hanging from a hook at Walmart.
 
If I had a pair of Bose, I would probably tweak them till they sounded the way I like.  I would probably widen the sound hole in the middle.  I don't know if I'd go to the expense of recabling (I'm a little skeptical about major differences in short cables).  I would definitely use an EQ to find out what they might sound like if you could boost the treble for clarity.  I've done this in Apple stores, taking the Bose cans off the store models and hooking them to my own iPod.  When I switched to Acoustic or Treble Boost, the Bose headphones sounded significantly better.
 
But the anger is not about any inability to "fix" the Bose presentation.  It's about identity theft.  People who invest hours and thousands in audio gear - often at the expense of looking odd - don't like it when a consumer product is marketed to make the average schmo think he's an audiophile because he spent what, to him, was a small fortune on headphones.  The idea that you can become an instant audiophile by purchasing Bose is as outlandish as the idea that Bose represents "the best" in audio design.
 
Yes, I know that we all hear differently and your idea of "the best" is not necessarily going to correlate with mine.  But if you take that idea to its logical extreme, you end up with relativistic mush.  "Best" is "relative" in terms of reference points but that hardly means anything goes.  I know a guy who thinks the RS1 is a better Grado than the PS1000 - for reasons that I respect.  I know folks who like the HD800 better, as well as folks who prefer the T1, as well as folks who think the Ed9 is the shiz while a new group of fanboys is forming for the LCD-2.  What surprised me, as I looked at the PS1000, the HD800 and the T1, was how much these cans had in common - even while each had its signature sound.
 
Nobody thinks the JCV Marshmallow leaves these others in the dust.  Nobody prefers the $5 Kosses you can grab off a hook at Walmart.  Nobody thinks entry-level audio has anything on the top contenders.  All roads do not lead to Rome.
 
I suspect that Bose would not be invited to the party, even if it made a decent headphone, for the same reasons Jan Brady hated Marcia and Joseph got sold into Egypt by his brothers.  There is a jealousy that comes from being the "favorite," particularly the favorite of those who laugh at headfi as a geek's passion to begin with.


This has been one of the most outstanding comments thus far.  Thank you.
 
I tend to agree with your first paragraph.  Very well stated, I can't say I disagree in any way.
 
Sound matters.  So true.
 
And, I'm sorry, but I really don't know what you're talking about.  I don't know anyone who makes fun of audiophiles LOL.  In fact, most friends I try to talk to about audio find it all quite fascinating and respect my hobby and interests.  But whatever.  I will trust this must be partially true because there are just some mean people out there that find ways to make fun of anyone for some reason or another.
 
And regarding the making people audiophiles just by purchasing Bose.  Yes, I agree to a certain extent.  They have the stuff for a consumer world, not an audiophile.  But that's really all they know or need to know.  How many times do you see someone in the studio making music with Bose headphones?  Not often I am sure.  How many times do regular people see anything related to studios at all?  Probably never.  But that's just it, they aren't interested enough to search farther.  So Bose is good enough for them.
 
And yes, I do see the fault in my argument.  I should clarify, my position is only relevant really in the same price range.  For example, say audiophile in $200 to $300 range vs Bose in the same.  Whoever likes what will pick that for that price range.  I do agree, $5 headphones not equal to greater products that cost way more.  "All roads do not lead to Rome."  I like that.
 
I guess at this point all I'm trying to say is Bose shouldn't be bashed.  They are perfect in a sense for those that do not wish to get involved in high fidelity playback with amps and DACs and good cables and great sources to fit with a wonderful set of cans.

 
Quote:
 
 
*clap...  clap.. clap..clapclapclap-Applause-standingOvation*
 
As a former Bose owner, I wholeheartedly agree.
To this day, I keep looking back at my $185 purchase of the Bose Triports 4 years ago thinking "I really genuinely burned $140, when I could have gotten a pair of PortaPros and call it a day".
 
I don't accuse them of false advertising. If anything I applaud their advertising teams for doing such a great job at promoting the product. As a graphic designer, I know how to appreciate promotional techniques.
 
What really gets in my nerves is how much money is spent on advertising instead of genuine audio research and engineering.
If they spent even 25% of their revenue into proper research, they would have gained some honor in my book.
 
No, I believe Bose created initial technology, and mass produced it in different shells.
The only thing progressing in their line of products is their Noise Cancelling technology.
Everything else sounds the same.
 
That means they're not an Audio Technology Company. They are producers of Noise Cancelling technology.
They have no business making anything without noise cancelling.
And they have no business making new products.
 
I bet they use the same drivers in all their headphone lineup.
But the difference with Koss is that Koss actually prices it right, and they admit that the drivers are the same.
Plus Koss offers great services with their impressive lifetime warranty.
 
Bose has no honor.


Yay another who agrees that marketing is a good quality Bose has!
 
And this shot off in a new direction with the noise cancellation, but I like your opinion.  Thanks for sharing.
 
You really think they use the same drivers?  I've heard the same about some Grados (and the Alessandros), and I didn't know that about Koss.
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 12:10 AM Post #140 of 187
 
Hating something about a company shouldn't mean that you try to tell everyone possible not to buy any of their products and make up excuses about why. 
 
I own Triports and have given them to audiophiles to listen to.  They all had positive things to say about them.
 
Read my unbiased review on the Triports and try them out first if you're going to give opinions about them.


That's good advice, regardless of the product: Listen to it first, comment later.  I've listened to the Triports.  My comments stand.  I didn't "tell everyone possible not to buy any of their products" or "make excuses about why."  I merely explained why so many headfiers hate Bose so much.  If you'll follow the advice of "listen first, comment later" with my review, you'll see that I said a number of positive things about Bose.  If nothing else, the same audiophile approach could be taken with Bose that's taken with other headphones - using the best files, the best playback devices, the best DACs, the best interconnects and/or cables, and the best amping.
 
Un-amped Triports can't compete with amped Triports using great equipment.  The same could be said for a lot of headphones - high and low.  
 
But people really do get irked at the idea that Bose has the best sound out there, which is a myth Bose happily perpetuates.  When people spend as much time, attention and treasure on achieving the very best in headfi, Bose's claim that it has gotten there with . . . Triports . . . is too laughable to argue over.
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 12:21 AM Post #141 of 187
I was talking about most people in general. Anyway, Bose doesn't claim it's the best, and never uses the word "audiophile" in their marketing.  People confuse hating a company with hating the product.
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 12:29 AM Post #143 of 187
Koss has used the same drivers for the PortaPros, KSC-75/35 (75 tweaked with titanium). They do say the drivers are the same.
Some thread posts claim other models to have the same drivers, but I can't confirm.
I just used the first company I knew who used the same drivers in multiple models as an example.
I didn't know Grados do that too.
 
I do appreciate Bose's Noise Cancelling tech. It's very good. I remember demoing the QuietComfort 3, and getting a little freaked out when the world's mute button was turned on.  I reflexively took them off. lol
They're impressive.
 
The music though, sounded the same as the Triports, except I can't hear the rest of the world.
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 12:32 AM Post #144 of 187
Quote:
I was talking about most people in general. Anyway, Bose doesn't claim it's the best, and never uses the word "audiophile" in their marketing.  People confuse hating a company with hating the product.


They don't actually say that, but its what they mean.  Its the image they project to those who don't know any alternative.
 
Also hypothetically, what if you hate all of a companies products?  Do you then hate the company by default?
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 9:41 AM Post #145 of 187


Quote:
 
I bet they use the same drivers in all their headphone lineup.
But the difference with Koss is that Koss actually prices it right, and they admit that the drivers are the same.


Doesn't Grado use (essentially, albeit better matched and some other modifications) the same drivers up to the SR325? Or is it just the SR225?
 
And yes, the Portas, KSC35, Sportas, and I think the UR18 use the same driver. KSC75 and UR40 use the same driver.
 
The Beyerdynamic DT770, DT880, and DT990 use the same driver too I think.

 
Quote:
Hating something about a company shouldn't mean that you try to tell everyone possible not to buy any of their products and make up excuses about why. 
 
I own Triports and have given them to audiophiles to listen to.  They all had positive things to say about them.
 
Read my unbiased review on the Triports and try them out first if you're going to give opinions about them.


We aren't really making up false excuses, they're genuinely overpriced. The around ear Triports don't sound horrible, just really colored, which some people would like. I myself am not that fond of how it's colored (in sound, not exterior, but the blue ones look ridiculous while we're on that topic). There are some positive things to say about them, namely comfort and they're fun to listen to. Their bass is pretty unpleasant though. I was never a fan of tilted up bass. What exactly didn't the SA5000 have enough of...? Bass? Because they're made to sound neutral/on the treble side of neutral and I hope you knew that before buying them.
 
Bose is good for people that don't want to delve into the realm of audio as we know it, I agree with that. There's nothing inherently wrong with Bose, in my opinion. They're using the gullibility of most people to make them think they're the best, which I have to applaud. It's not really the company that irks me, it's the snobbiness of some of the users of them.
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 11:12 AM Post #146 of 187


Quote:
Hating something about a company shouldn't mean that you try to tell everyone possible not to buy any of their products and make up excuses about why. 
 
I own Triports and have given them to audiophiles to listen to.  They all had positive things to say about them.
 
Read my unbiased review on the Triports and try them out first if you're going to give opinions about them.


Why is it only brand new Head-fiers like BOSE? You might want to ask yourself that. Well, you've come to the right place, we'll help you find something much better.
 
Oh...and Welcome to Head-fi and I'm sorry for your wallet.
basshead.gif

 
FWIW, I've owned the Triports OE and AE, and QC2s and all were horrible headphones for their price. Had they been priced at $40 then not bad.
 
Remember:
 
BOSE = Buy Other Sound Equipment
 
What other similarly priced headphones have you heard?
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 11:12 AM Post #147 of 187


Quote:
I was talking about most people in general. Anyway, Bose doesn't claim it's the best, and never uses the word "audiophile" in their marketing.  People confuse hating a company with hating the product.


Not me...I hate both.
biggrin.gif

 
Jun 21, 2010 at 12:28 PM Post #148 of 187


Quote:
Also hypothetically, what if you hate all of a companies products?  Do you then hate the company by default?


I would hope not as you could end up missing out and that applies to all companies. I love my Sounddock and it was better than the others I tried at the time. I have listened to the basic home cinema setup in a shop demo and heard a friends and enjoyed its sound added to its practicality. 
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 1:01 PM Post #149 of 187


Quote:
Doesn't Grado use (essentially, albeit better matched and some other modifications) the same drivers up to the SR325? Or is it just the SR225?
 
And yes, the Portas, KSC35, Sportas, and I think the UR18 use the same driver. KSC75 and UR40 use the same driver.
 
The Beyerdynamic DT770, DT880, and DT990 use the same driver too I think.

 

We aren't really making up false excuses, they're genuinely overpriced. The around ear Triports don't sound horrible, just really colored, which some people would like. I myself am not that fond of how it's colored (in sound, not exterior, but the blue ones look ridiculous while we're on that topic). There are some positive things to say about them, namely comfort and they're fun to listen to. Their bass is pretty unpleasant though. I was never a fan of tilted up bass. What exactly didn't the SA5000 have enough of...? Bass? Because they're made to sound neutral/on the treble side of neutral and I hope you knew that before buying them.
 
Bose is good for people that don't want to delve into the realm of audio as we know it, I agree with that. There's nothing inherently wrong with Bose, in my opinion. They're using the gullibility of most people to make them think they're the best, which I have to applaud. It's not really the company that irks me, it's the snobbiness of some of the users of them.


I'm not sure but I think I've heard it's up to SR225.  And wow lots of companies do this...
 
I agree with this line so much: "The around ear Triports don't sound horrible, just really colored, which some people would like."
 
Haha, gullibility?  Everybody thinks people don't know.  I guess it is different for audio freaks.  I used to only be into car audio but things changed.  I always knew there was better stuff out there than Bose but I didn't wanna empty my wallet so I didn't even get Bose.  But I wasn't gullible or uneducated.  But like I said I guess people who are into audio know more than those that are only casual listeners...
 
Jun 21, 2010 at 1:14 PM Post #150 of 187


Quote:
I'm not sure but I think I've heard it's up to SR225.  And wow lots of companies do this...
 
Haha, gullibility?  Everybody thinks people don't know.  I guess it is different for audio freaks.  I used to only be into car audio but things changed.  I always knew there was better stuff out there than Bose but I didn't wanna empty my wallet so I didn't even get Bose.  But I wasn't gullible or uneducated.  But like I said I guess people who are into audio know more than those that are only casual listeners...


Oh, I forgot that the Denon D2000/5000 are the same headphone with different cups.
 
Gullible was probably the wrong word.
 
The AE Triports are the only Bose I'd consider buying, albeit if it were like $30. I'd probably get the QC2 if they were that price too though, and mod them to my liking.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top