[lindrone]

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Originally Posted by Bunnyears I am not talking about the hard plastic case but the "portable" carry case, that is supposed to be similar to the soft carry cases that come with the ety's. That key case is a joke. It is supposed to be what you put the headphones in when you are just going out. I know that is true, because they told me that when I called them.

Hmm.. they used to send out the same soft pouch that's exactly the same as the Ety ER-4 (yes, once again, just off-the-shelf parts), but they don't anymore. The truth is, if you really think about it, is the thin layer of foam on the Ety pouch really that much more protective than Sensa's pouch? It is more or less a "false sense of safety" rather than a real level of protection. The Ultimate Ears actually come with a leather pouch that's shaped much like the Ety pouch, but even worse because it's barely big enough to fit UE5c or UE-10 Pro. It is tight and even less protective.

You also have to consider what you're putting inside the pouch. Sensa is made from soft silicone, it'll absorb shock and such quite well on its own. ER-4 is hard plastic that'll crack with a drop, Sensas will not. If you're thinking about protection in terms of.. against bending of the pouch or something... the foam pouch of the ER-4 is no less or more bendable.

 

[Big D]

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Originally Posted by JohnnyLightOn It's not whining, but it's kind of been blown out of proportion. "Fraud"? Please. Someone at Sensaphonics made the decision to charge his card for return shipping, and that was wrong. They should have asked him first. Obviously.

Actually you hadn't read my post properly. They actually PASSED ON my credit card details to UPS for me to be billed rather than charge me directly. This passing on of my credit card details to a third party for it to be billed is actually fraud. I'm sure you'd be delighted to have to go through the inconvenience of getting a new credit card if it happened to you. As it is fraudulent do do that, maybe you could take the inverted commas out in future?

Sensaphonics have paid back the amount that UPS took onto my credit card, but with a foreign currency transaction both ways it left me about £3 out of pocket. I'm hardly going to quibble over that. I just told my credit card company I had lost my card and a new one was issued, as I don't want or need all the hassle.

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Originally Posted by Wmcmanus My only question would be this: If 1) there is no indication on their website that they are willing to absorb the shipping cost for refittings, and 2) they do not provide a gauranty that each customer will get a perfect fitting the first time, then why would you be surprised that they would bill you for this? This would seem to be out of the ordinary and not part of what was contemplated in the original purchase transaction. So often this happens in contract law issues where each party is operating under a different assumption. I agree with you and others who have posted on this thread that they handled the situation very poorly from beginning to end. Furthermore, Julie should have explained their billing policy to you because presumably this wasn't the first instance in which they had to do a refitting. And if it was just a matter of taking some length off of the stems, then you can make a good argument that this was a quality control issue (i.e., totally their fault) and not one having to do with imperfect ear impressions (i.e., an issue having to do with the audiologist, and thus not their fault). But despite all of these factors that weigh in your favor, if it wasn't clear who would absorb the shipping costs, why didn't you ask? My guess was that you assumed that they would absorb the cost, so it didn't occur to you to ask. They obviously assumed that you would be willing to absorb the cost, and they were in a much better position to make this clear to you, which they should have done.

I have here the information Sensaphonics provide with their 2X-S. It isn't even professionally printed, but appears to be photocopied and randomly cut!
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30 Day Remake Policy: Sensaphonics will remake, at no extra charge, all molds returned for poor fit within 30 days of purchase. Limited 6-Month Warranty Sensaphonics will repair malfunctioning products that are a result of manufacturing defects, at no extra charge, for 6 months after the date of purchase. Not Covered: Cord damage Failure or improper function due to wax in earpiece Damage to earpiece Modifications to earpiece by unauthorised Sensaphonics representative

To me the words "at no extra cost" mean exactly that, and they do to US customers. However as an international customer Sensaphonics want to charge me full shipping costs. Therefore it is no longer "at no extra cost".

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Originally Posted by raisin Excuse me but, fraud, lawsuits, OMG they're late- Wah, Wah, Wah. You'd think it's the end of the world.

I didn't say anything about lawsuits, but I believe I was the victim of a fraud, which Sensaphonics have subsequently sorted out. Sadly this has been a pain in the backside to sort out. Actually the late delivery does come into the fraud, as they intended me to pay $47 for a 3-day courier delivery which took a total of 17 days from what they said.

Basically I laid out a factual story about the poor customer service I received from Sensaphonics. If some people don't want to believe it or make out that it is nothing then that's fine. However I was just warning people thinking of ordering from outside the US that there is probably a better way; though I doubt there could be a worse way.

As Plainsong mentioned it is those who haven't had to deal direct with Sensaphonics, but through an audiologist, who are making light of it. Those of us outside the US have had to deal direct, up till now, so we can see how poor the service with e-mails, etc is.

 

[lindrone]

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Originally Posted by Bunnyears Now, I may not have your expertise with headphones, but you don't have my length of experience or expertise as a consumer of high end goods.

LOL... I mean, I know your points are valid, but I'm just saying other things that has to be taken in consideration to understand what's going on in the background. To assume that I don't have experience as a consumer of high-end goods is.. a little presumptious, isn't it? I wouldn't say that I am a huge consumer of luxury goods, but there are a few items here and there.

The key is though, you're comparing luxury goods industry against audiophile industry, and they're really, completely different. Luxury goods industry rely on selling products that aren't necessarily truly better, but it's the brand image and consumer expectation that makes people want to buy them. For example, is a $800 Prada bag made from space age, bullet-proof fabric? No, but you get the Prada "guarantee" behind it, because if there isn't Prada's guarantee, you have nothing but just another fabric-constructed bag.

Luxury industry has to sell on that, because without it, they have nothing to sell on. This is different than other industries where there's technical differences in levels of performance that clearly differs one from another.


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Perhaps this seems harsh to you, but the truth is that Sensaphonics is selling an expensive iem, much more expensive than the ipod that I am using it with!

Hmm... because it's a better headphone than your iPod? When 2X-S is paired with the iPod, it's actually pretty source limited. It's as good as portable sound will be, but if you connect it to a home system with proper amping, it'll get even better. So, yeah, of course it's more expensive than your iPod.


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So, I expect the same care I would get when I buy a pair of Manolo Blahnik shoes, or a Louis Vuitton bag, or a Prada dress. If you are charging high end prices then you will hope to be dealing with a high end clientele, and their customer service needs definite improvement.

Here's another important point... we 'became' their customers, they didn't advertise to us, they didn't come to us asking for our money. Another way to look at it, is that we went to them and asked if they can cater to our market. I know from first hand conversation, that Sensaphonics never, ever expected to have this level of sales from this market segment.

It could very well be that one day, Sensaphonics realize they don't have the resource to deal with normal consumers, so they simply won't make any IEM's for the consumer market anymore. Not saying that they're considering that at all, but it's very different from a company like Ultimate Ears, who advertised and knew that they wanted to go after the consumer market and had those type of infrastructure in place.

I mention all of these things.. because I think it's important to look at it from a different perspective than what we would normally do with a typical consumer oriented company.

What are the quirks of dealing with audiophile goods? Have you ever tried tracking down a pair of Sony R10 or Sennheiser Orpheus? Have you ever considered what would happen if your Orpheus broke one day? Where/how are you going to get that fixed and repaired? Have you paid several thousand for a headphone amp and not have it delivered until 6 months after it's supposed to be done? What about spending half a year tracking down a particular CD player and having it sent off to be modified and wait for another 2 months before it's done? Oh yeah, in case that modified player breaks, the warranty was long expired anyway, nevermind it's a $2500 player to begin with.

I'm not saying that I don't understand all the consumer frustrations that you guys are having. I understand that perfectly, after all, wasn't I the one that all the UE owners attacked when I complained about UE losing my $1000 package by not having the right address on it? The difference is that Ultimate Ears has a clear intention on the consumer market, and I don't know where Sensaphonics stand.

 

[Blitzula]

There are several posts here that are some of the rare times I strongly disagree with you. You know I respect you, so please don't take my comments personally.

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Originally Posted by lindrone The key is though, you're comparing luxury goods industry against audiophile industry, and they're really, completely different. Luxury goods industry rely on selling products that aren't necessarily truly better, but it's the brand image and consumer expectation that makes people want to buy them. For example, is a $800 Prada bag made from space age, bullet-proof fabric? No, but you get the Prada "guarantee" behind it, because if there isn't Prada's guarantee, you have nothing but just another fabric-constructed bag. Luxury industry has to sell on that, because without it, they have nothing to sell on. This is different than other industries where there's technical differences in levels of performance that clearly differs one from another..

If you're buying a product that expensive relative to the rest of the industry, you have a right to expect "luxury good" treatment. There are indeed technical difference betwen, for example, BMW/Porsche/Ferrari etc., and they treat their customers very well because it's a luxury purchase. It's not apples and oranges at all.

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Originally Posted by lindrone Here's another important point... we 'became' their customers, they didn't advertise to us, they didn't come to us asking for our money. Another way to look at it, is that we went to them and asked if they can cater to our market. I know from first hand conversation, that Sensaphonics never, ever expected to have this level of sales from this market segment. I mention all of these things.. because I think it's important to look at it from a different perspective than what we would normally do with a typical consumer oriented company.

Well, no offense, but poor babies. They should have realized the level of customer care people expect when putting this much money into an IEM purchase. I really find that arguement completely specious, and not an important point in the least. If Sensaphonics didn't do enough research before going into the consumer market, they should either bear up to high standards or leave.


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Originally Posted by lindrone The difference is that Ultimate Ears has a clear intention on the consumer market, and I don't know where Sensaphonics stand.

Yes...it sounds like Ultimate Ears actually evaluates business consequences before enterting markets. If Sensaphonics is a professional, well run outfit, they should do the same.

I really have a different take than you...it is precisely because Sensaphonics is making small batches of expensive custom made product that they should be bending over backwards to provide luxury good service. You're doing a lot of rationalizing that really seems to imply that Sensaphonics can be excused for these lapses. For me, there's no excuse at all. If you charge that much, provide the absolute best customer service.

 

[Wmcmanus]

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Originally Posted by Big D I have here the information Sensaphonics provide with their 2X-S. It isn't even professionally printed, but appears to be photocopied and randomly cut! 30 Day Remake Policy: Sensaphonics will remake, at no extra charge, all molds returned for poor fit within 30 days of purchase. Limited 6-Month Warranty Sensaphonics will repair malfunctioning products that are a result of manufacturing defects, at no extra charge, for 6 months after the date of purchase. Not Covered: Cord damage Failure or improper function due to wax in earpiece Damage to earpiece Modifications to earpiece by unauthorised Sensaphonics representative To me the words "at no extra cost" mean exactly that, and they do to US customers. However as an international customer Sensaphonics want to charge me full shipping costs. Therefore it is no longer "at no extra cost".

Big D, thanks for providing the info concerning Sensa's warrenty policies. Had I been aware of these terms, my initial posts would have definitely taken a much different slant. I was laboring under the false impression that they didn't offer any type of warrenty. This, of course, was nothing more than an assumption on my part (which I suppose I could have checked out), but now that I see these terms I'm 100% with you! I'd also be completely p*ssed off about:

1) the fact that they charged you for shipping when their warrenty clearly says they won't for refittings,

2) their unauthorized release of your credit card info to UPS, which may not have been so bad were it not for #1 above!

3) the delays in solving your problem, which would not be so bad were it not for #4 below!

4) their lies or misinformation about when they actually did ship the package back to you!

If you add this all up and also consider what others have reported about refittings almost always being a low priority task at Sensaphonics, it seems to me that the people who are making a big fuss about these things are well justified in doing so. Well intentioned they might be, but good at customer service they are not.

Had Big D's situation been an isolated incident rather than part of a general pattern, I'd be more inclined to agree with lindrone who points out that they are new at dealing with issues that tend to arise in the consumer market but may not be within their normal experience. Yet, when business comes your way for whatever reason, you need to respect and appreciate it, and learn to adjust to the new customer service demands that are being placed upon you, lest you lose that new business just as quickly as you found it (or it found you, as seems to be the case here).

 

[lindrone]

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Originally Posted by Blitzula If you're buying a product that expensive relative to the rest of the industry, you have a right to expect "luxury good" treatment. There are indeed technical difference betwen, for example, BMW/Porsche/Ferrari etc., and they treat their customers very well because it's a luxury purchase. It's not apples and oranges at all.

Even BMW/Porsche/Ferrari is more of a normal consumer market than our "niche" market segment. There's a separation between what we as consumer want to believe of what this market *should be like* rather than how this market really behaves.

The reality is, in our specific niche market, the higher up you go, the less support you get. The examples I've stated are very real. You can't get support for Orpheus or R10, if you have a pair of those that break on you, there's nothing you can except spend money and hunt down another pair. Any custom headphone amp that you might have, guess what, if the amp builder decides he's not doing this business anymore one of those days, you're pretty much left out in the dark. Which is one of the only argument I have for buying Headroom's overpriced, but underperforming amps, because they seem like they'll be company that'll be around for years.

It's actually much easier to get support if you have say, a PPA made by someone who's no longer around... but if you have a KGSS amp? A Blue Hawaii? They're considerably higher end, but only a few people know how to build/support them. So if one of those break on you, you're going to have a tough time getting it fixed. The truth is, in our market, the higher end you go, the more niche it gets, and the less support we really have left at our disposal.


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You're doing a lot of rationalizing that really seems to imply that Sensaphonics can be excused for these lapses. For me, there's no excuse at all. If you charge that much, provide the absolute best customer service.

They did offer that level of customer care, but I think they're overwhelmed with having to deal with this particular crowd. I think the build time and support has gone up because of the increase in volume that they did not expect.

The fact is that they never intended to make these IEMs for the average consumer. Their focus has always been on the professional market where a lot of these issues really aren't an issue. Yes, they have been dealing with it pretty poorly, but they didn't intend to be here in the first place.

 

[Bunnyears]

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Originally Posted by lindrone LOL... I mean, I know your points are valid, but I'm just saying other things that has to be taken in consideration to understand what's going on in the background. To assume that I don't have experience as a consumer of high-end goods is.. a little presumptious, isn't it? I wouldn't say that I am a huge consumer of luxury goods, but there are a few items here and there.

I have absolutely no doubt about it, especially after reading this post. If you did, then you wouldn't have posted this.

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The key is though, you're comparing luxury goods industry against audiophile industry, and they're really, completely different. Luxury goods industry rely on selling products that aren't necessarily truly better, but it's the brand image and consumer expectation that makes people want to buy them. For example, is a $800 Prada bag made from space age, bullet-proof fabric? No, but you get the Prada "guarantee" behind it, because if there isn't Prada's guarantee, you have nothing but just another fabric-constructed bag.

Obviously, as you have no knowledge of the care and manufacture of true luxury goods you can make this statement. A handmade, hand stitched handbag, made with high end materials is going to be expensive with or without a logo attached to it. When I buy a Prada dress or a Chanel jacket, I am paying for expert design as well. Those are intangibles that I am lucky enought to afford. But, if I get a dress that has a seam that comes apart because it was improperly constructed, I can bring it back and they will fix it and fit it to me, no questions asked. They will then messenger it back to me when the work has been completed, again no charge to me. All because they unconditionally stand behind their product. I don't have to push Prada or Hermés here, but to say that any high end product is better or worse than another, or to say that customer care is unimportant because an audiophile product sells itself, is ridiculous.
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Luxury industry has to sell on that, because without it, they have nothing to sell on. This is different than other industries where there's technical differences in levels of performance that clearly differs one from another.

You obviously know nothing about true luxury goods.

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Hmm... because it's a better headphone than your iPod? When 2X-S is paired with the iPod, it's actually pretty source limited. It's as good as portable sound will be, but if you connect it to a home system with proper amping, it'll get even better. So, yeah, of course it's more expensive than your iPod.

I don't use headphones at home except late at night when I don't want to disturb my husband, and then it's much more comfortable to plug into the ipod then to get up out of bed and start up the whole stereo system. When I am awake and he is awake we use our very high end stereo system with our very high end audiophile speakers, amps, preamps etc, so that music becomes an experience we share together. So don't presume that I don't know anything about high end sourcing. I don't use iems because I don't need to worry about disturbing anyone, and frankly, why be limited by an electric line when I need the freedom to move about?

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Here's another important point... we 'became' their customers, they didn't advertise to us, they didn't come to us asking for our money. Another way to look at it, is that we went to them and asked if they can cater to our market. I know from first hand conversation, that Sensaphonics never, ever expected to have this level of sales from this market segment.

And a business that is experiencing growth is going to complain that its customer base is becoming too large? I think that anyone connected with Sensaphonics must be thrilled that they are making headway in to the high end luxury goods market. They are as interested in their bottom line as any other business. Go to their website, and you will see that it is designed to be enticing to the consumer. There are no disclaimers about it.

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It could very well be that one day, Sensaphonics realize they don't have the resource to deal with normal consumers, so they simply won't make any IEM's for the consumer market anymore. Not saying that they're considering that at all, but it's very different from a company like Ultimate Ears, who advertised and knew that they wanted to go after the consumer market and had those type of infrastructure in place.

They have so clearly seen the profits that Ultimate Ears is making and have diliberately gone to compete in the same market! However did you reach such a ridiculous conclusion?
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I mention all of these things.. because I think it's important to look at it from a different perspective than what we would normally do with a typical consumer oriented company.

You are so off the mark you are ridiculous here. Are you saying that Sensaphonics should be absolved of the normal responsiblity to its customers?

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What are the quirks of dealing with audiophile goods? Have you ever tried tracking down a pair of Sony R10 or Sennheiser Orpheus? Have you ever considered what would happen if your Orpheus broke one day? Where/how are you going to get that fixed and repaired? Have you paid several thousand for a headphone amp and not have it delivered until 6 months after it's supposed to be done? What about spending half a year tracking down a particular CD player and having it sent off to be modified and wait for another 2 months before it's done? Oh yeah, in case that modified player breaks, the warranty was long expired anyway, nevermind it's a $2500 player to begin with.

If I had invested in an orpheus, and then the company stopped making it and it was no longer under warranty, then that would just be the breaks. I would either find someone who could repair it, or I would replace it. $2500 is not a lot of money to someone who routinely drops twice that for a jacket. (Look up the average price of a Chanel jacket.) And that is my experience with luxury goods, and I am far from the wealthiest of my friends. I think sensaphonics would be thrilled to make inroads in the people who have that much disposable income. I am also very familiar with the waiting time for custom made goods. I had to wait almost 1 year for chairs I had ordered. The frames were hand carved, and the upholstery fabric, imported from France, had a huge waiting time for delivery as well. Long waiting periods for custom goods is the standard, not the exception. Just try ordering a high end sofa COM (customer's own material). The minimum wait is 12 weeks, and then frequently the piece needs "tweaking" thus lengthening the wait time. When I ordered my hand forged sterling flatware right after my marriage, I waited almost a year for delivery. They don't keep that stuff on hand, so it has to be made for each order. Call up James Robinson in NY and find out how long it takes for them to fill an order.
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I'm not saying that I don't understand all the consumer frustrations that you guys are having. I understand that perfectly, after all, wasn't I the one that all the UE owners attacked when I complained about UE losing my $1000 package by not having the right address on it? The difference is that Ultimate Ears has a clear intention on the consumer market, and I don't know where Sensaphonics stand.

If UE misaddressed your package, and you never received it, then it is their responsiblity to make sure that you get another set of iems. That is precisely why all of the shipping companies offer insurance. If you can't figure out where sensaphonics stands, then go to their website. They specifically say their product is for audiophiles. It is an expensive product and they know that audiophiles are willing to drop large amounts of money to indulge their hobby, so that is where they are. They are directly going into competition with Ultimate Ears, as is Westone. And their growth is directly attributable to the growth of the portable hard drive player. Take a look at Karl Lagerfeld, he has over 40 ipods that he carries in a custom designed Louis Vuitton suitcase in order to transport his music with him no matter where he goes. This is the customer that every headphone company wants to get. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are the only type of consumer they want. They are in business to sell the iems they make, and priced as they are, they want a rich client base. No, they need a wealthy client base, because the wealthy are the ones who will order more than one pair, just because they don't like the way they look as they age or because they don't want to worry about having to transport another pair between their homes.

 

[Big D]

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Originally Posted by lindrone I understand that perfectly, after all, wasn't I the one that all the UE owners attacked when I complained about UE losing my $1000 package by not having the right address on it? The difference is that Ultimate Ears has a clear intention on the consumer market, and I don't know where Sensaphonics stand.

As I understand it you still received the package from UE the day it should have arrived, just the driver came out a second time. Correct me if I am wrong. Mislabelling an address is human error. Passing on my card details and delaying shipping nearly two weeks is unlikely to be human error, but a more deeply rooted problem.

 

[jjcha]

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Originally Posted by Bunnyears When I buy a Prada dress or a Chanel jacket, I am paying for expert design as well.

Hmm, totally off-topic, dunno about Chanel, but I would not hold Prada as the pinnacle of customer service/reliability. They've left me high and dry on more than a few occasions, so I basically buy Prada products on an "as-is" basis now. Even here in Japan.

Regardless, and back on topic, I am truly sorry for everyone who's had less than a stellar experience with Sensaphonics. All I have to say is that my experience has been smooth and easy-breezy, with great responsiveness from Sensa both in the States and in Japan. It's amazing what kind of service you get when you actually call during business hours and speak on the phone as a human being to a human being. And the product is truly satisfying - worth every penny (including the Japan mark-up!) Not to say that I don't believe that others have been disappointed with their experience. Just that it hasn't been mine.

-Jason

 

[Bunnyears]

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Originally Posted by jjcha Hmm, totally off-topic, dunno about Chanel, but I would not hold Prada as the pinnacle of customer service/reliability. They've left me high and dry on more than a few occasions, so I basically buy Prada products on an "as-is" basis now. Even here in Japan. Regardless, and back on topic, I am truly sorry for everyone who's had less than a stellar experience with Sensaphonics. All I have to say is that my experience has been smooth and easy-breezy, with great responsiveness from Sensa both in the States and in Japan. It's amazing what kind of service you get when you actually call during business hours and speak on the phone as a human being to a human being. And the product is truly satisfying - worth every penny (including the Japan mark-up!) Not to say that I don't believe that others have been disappointed with their experience. Just that it hasn't been mine. -Jason

Sorry about your Prada experience. A lot of that depends on the retailer. Here we have Prada owned boutiques that give excellent service. Jason, do you buy Prada dresses for yourself? or are you talking about their leather goods?

Also, I only telephone Sensaphonics. They have an 800 number, and waiting for email response is like waiting for snail mail.

 

[gorman]

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Originally Posted by lindrone I understand that perfectly, after all, wasn't I the one that all the UE owners attacked when I complained about UE losing my $1000 package by not having the right address on it?

Well, in all fairness, and speaking just for myself, I merely stated that I was sure you would be treated to your full satisfaction, as you later confirmed it happened.

 

[PhilS]

These types of threads are hilarious. Keep it up.

P.S. I heard that the mother of the owner of Sensaphonics wears army boots!

 

[PhilS]

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Originally Posted by PhilS I heard that the mother of the owner of Sensaphonics wears army boots!

Oh yeah!? Well, I heard the army boots worn by the mother of the owner of Ultimate Ears are cheap looking!

 

[gorman]

AHAHAHAH!!! You earned a laugh point there!

 

[lindrone]

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Originally Posted by Bunnyears Obviously, as you have no knowledge of the care and manufacture of true luxury goods you can make this statement. A handmade, hand stitched handbag, made with high end materials is going to be expensive with or without a logo attached to it. When I buy a Prada dress or a Chanel jacket, I am paying for expert design as well.

Well, if you want to believe that, fine. I work in the fringe of the "luxury goods" (more cosmetics, actually) industry, and the truth is that people want to buy into the brand more than what's really behind it. The pricing differences of higher quality textile materials versus inferior material isn't that dramatic (my family used to be in the textile business too), the fact of the matter is that people are paying for the brand. Of course you would expect $2500 coat to be better than $250 coat, but one should be very aware that the same $2500 coat made without that logo attached to it, would probably only be $700.

The entire "imitation brand" industry proves that, you can make something that's very close in quality (and if you visit Asia, oh man.. they're getting really, really good at making these imitation brands, really good ones you would never be able to tell) and sell it for exactly that. Of course, deep down inside you know you're not paying for the real thing, and you don't have the real thing (call it.. Sarah Jessica Parker syndrome)... You are in fact, paying for the "brand" (and the service & such that comes with it).

I'm nowhere near rich myself (hmm.. quite the opposite, actually)... but rich friend are plenty abound. I have friends that shops for Porsches when they were bored on a weekend with nothing to do. Nevertheless they're spoiled brats, but hey, they've got a Porsche sitting in the garage because they were bored on weekend and drove by a Porsche dealership. Yes, I've worn their $2500 Armani jackets before, and if I have a chance to purchase one, I probably would (it's all that prestige.. yumm..); but I know for a fact that you can a replica of the same material, same workmanship, without the Armani brand on it for much less.

Of course, the irony here is that the people that works to provide "luxury goods" for people that can afford it often can't afford it themselves. Yours truly includes


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They have so clearly seen the profits that Ultimate Ears is making and have diliberately gone to compete in the same market! However did you reach such a ridiculous conclusion?

I've actually spoken to Michael Santucci in person, when he came into town about a month ago...

He actually doesn't really mind the fact that Ultimate Ears is making a lot of profit. His MO is making a great product, he doesn't really think that they have to aggressively market themselves, or expand the company the same way that UE is trying to do. He's perfectly happy with the amount of money that he was making already, and the company is doing pretty well, he really has no beef about it all.

The truth is that Sensaphonics has a lot more than just the consumer market the support. There's some government contracts they work on, and there's even several NASCAR race teams that they work with. The consumer market simply isn't the only place they are making money. They were very well off before any consumer took their money to Sensaphonics. They were obviously making well enough money in the professional market alone.

In our conversation, he actually expressed there's been some frustration in dealing with the consumer market in general, and there are challenges that they're simply not ready for (mostly, has to do with consumer expectation versus reality). It doesn't change the fact that consumers are now starting to come to them for products, and they want to support those consumers as best as they can, but they simply don't have the infrastructure in place to do that.

For the record, Sensaphonics website was very professionally oriented, and only that before. They had very little normal consumer traffic. They overhauled their site to provide more consumer-oriented information *after* people on Head-Fi started going to them. It was more the fact that there's an audience that pushed them into it, not that they forced their way into the consumer audience. Before we started using them for "audiophile" applications, there were very little to none mentioning of audiophile uses on their site.


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You are so off the mark you are ridiculous here. Are you saying that Sensaphonics should be absolved of the normal responsiblity to its customers?

Nope, I'm not saying that they should be absolved of any normal responsibility. I'm just saying that there's many reasons why this is the case. Also consider that this thread has really overblown the issue, because the experiences here in United States has been relatively smooth and "happy" thus far with Sensaphonics. Until these past few months, there were very few complaints of any dealing with Sensaphonics whatsoever, and I already mentioned the previous scheduling engagements that I knew that they were involved in. It's simply the growing pain of a company that was forced to grow rather than "planned to grow".

Of course, they should take care of what happened, and they made a mistake of judgement. However, is this the majority of the case, or a minority? Is this a temporary issue that they have? Or is it a majority issue?

The fact is, audiophiles has overcame much more difficult situations, such as obtaining a pair of Orpheus, a pair of R10, a KGSS amp, heck, even getting a Gilmore V2 SE made to your spec is more difficult than getting a pair of 2X-S.