[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D As I understand it you still received the package from UE the day it should have arrived, just the driver came out a second time. Correct me if I am wrong. Mislabelling an address is human error. Passing on my card details and delaying shipping nearly two weeks is unlikely to be human error, but a more deeply rooted problem.

Clarifying the issue that I had with UE again...

UE mislabeled the address after I left specific instruction knowing that there's a high possibility of mislabeling my address (Amazon and such used to do it all the time, although they have fixed the problem across the board now). However, they mislabeled the address exactly the way I expected them to. So the FedEx person came out, was not able to get it delivered. I specifically paid for overnight shipping.

I called FedEx back to correct the address, and was informed that the package will not be sent today at all.

There's two FedEx delivery that comes around my office on a daily basis. One is for special services (such as overnight delivery) one is for normal and 2-day services. The FedEx delivery person is also different, the normal and 2-day service is the same person everyday, and we know him pretty well. The special services person is completely random.

The normal delivery person saw my package when he was making the afternoon run completely by luck. It wasn't supposed to go out at all, because he knew who I was, he decided to take the delivery for me anyway. So he came and delivered the package when it wasn't supposed to be delivered.

UE replied to my email with a rather cold, not entirely apologetic email. They've made no mention of any sort of reparation either. About two weeks later I got a receipt in the mail saying that they're refunded my overnight shipping charges to my credit card. Of course, there was no communication about this anyway. So it wasn't the ideal way of communication, but the correct action was eventually taken.

The fact that the package made it to me has nothing to do with UE, but rather the merit of the quality of the FedEx delivery person in charge. UE's merit is that eventually they did the right thing, although more communication would be appreciated in whether or not they were going to.

Anyway, the whole situation is very different than yours. I understand why you should be upset, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be. What I've been talking about is exactly that, Sensaphonics has issues in dealing with the consumer market that it isn't prepared for, nor should it be, because we thrusted them into the market. With Ultimate Ears it was the other way around, they were ready to get into the consumer market and made a push for it.

However, it should also be noted that there's a lot of people that's bought into either UE or Sensa without ever truly experiencing the real difficulties of being in such a niche market. To draw direct comparison from this niche market to the average consumer market is wrong. Like I've mentioned in my examples, there are far, far harder to deal with product issues than Sensaphonics, and it hasn't stopped any audiophiles on this site from acquiring those products either.

Put it in other words:

Was I pissed that UE mis-shipped my products? Yes. Would I buy from UE again (well, assuming there's a product I want), YES. What if they misship my products again? Yes, I'll be pissed off again. Would I have bought it anyway, YES.

If I was in your boat, would I be pissed that Sensa did what they did. YES. Would I buy from Sensa again? YES. I want the earphones no matter what... so that's an emphatic YES.

My CD3000 had a broken driver and Sony refuse to repair it, but offered me a $390 exchange program, ridiculous, eh? Would I buy another CD3000? Oh wait, I already did.

 

[JohnnyLightOn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong If not fraud, then what do you call it when someone steals money from you? It's not been blown out of proportion, it's not some conspiracy. It simply is what it is, and it's not wrong to call it by its name.

Plainsong, if you feel cheated and want to call it fraud, I will give you that. You have a right to be upset about being wrongly charged without your consent. You have a right to rant about it and let others know how you feel.

Fraud is a specific kind of theft. It requires intent. Technically, it's when someone intentionally misrepresents a material fact in order to induce you to give them money. Like if someone were to say, "I will sell you my new, in-box phones for $500," and when you received them they were obviously used and also damaged, and the seller knew it when he shipped them. That's typical fraud.

I think what you are trying to say is that you were stolen from, which would be (in the U.S.) larceny, which is a general way of saying theft. Or, it could violate some banking law involving the improper charging of credit cards. You can argue that they induced you to give them your CC # in order to purchase your phones, but instead (additionally) used it to charge you for return shipping. But I don't think that was intentional on their part at the time you gave them your CC #. Because fraud requires intent, it's a more serious charge, and that's why I took issue with it. It implies a morally corrupt person, as opposed to a careless or even unethical person.

The point of my comments was that, most probably, some individual employee decided to charge your card for return shipping. It could have been malicious and intentional, such as someone there feeling that you unnecessarily caused them to tweak your phones, they didn't want to do the free work, too many audiophiles are asking for fit adjustments, and dammit they are not going to fork over the $40 to get these phones back to you after they had a tech spend an hour working on them. That would be very bad form on their part. But again, it could very well be a single employee who made a decision that the company itself doesn't sanction.

Or, it could be an employee who unintentionally charged you. That could be someone who filled out a shipping form, selected "Bill Recipient", and copied-and-pasted your CC info without thinking it through. That would be far less bad, even though it's still wrong.

The fact that they didn't return your e-mails compounded the problem because it made it hard to figure out what kind of intent the company actually had.

Beyond your posting, "I'm so pissed at these guys, they caused me a big hassle!" and responses of the sort, "That sucks! You have a right to be pissed!," I don't think there's anything else to say. This has happened one time, you let the community know, and if it becomes a practice, then I'm sure we'll hear about it from others. But one bad event doesn't make a practice. That's the message I seem to be hearing--that this was intentional, it's a practice, thus they're a bad company. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In any event, I support your right to be very pissed off about this.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLightOn Beyond your posting, "I'm so pissed at these guys, they caused me a big hassle!" and responses of the sort, "That sucks! You have a right to be pissed!," I don't think there's anything else to say. This has happened one time, you let the community know, and if it becomes a practice, then I'm sure we'll hear about it from others. But one bad event doesn't make a practice. That's the messege I seem to be hearing. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In any event, I support your right to be very pissed off about this.

Very well stated point Johnny

 

[toaster]

i bow down to the awesome power of bunnyears.

she is super rich, super sweet and she can afford anything, AND she even has friends that can afford things too.

let's keep using head-fi to boost our egos.

i want all the audio nerds out there to know that i have money, and lots of it...lol - another thread crashes and burns. at least it's amusing.

 

[remilard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 i bow down to the awesome power of bunnyears. she is super rich, super sweet and she can afford anything, AND she even has friends that can afford things too. let's keep using head-fi to boost our egos. i want all the audio nerds out there to know that i have money, and lots of it...lol - another thread crashes and burns. at least it's amusing.

And she hasn't attacked anyone personally so how is this called for?

 

[Big D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLightOn Plainsong, if you feel cheated and want to call it fraud, I will give you that. You have a right to be upset about being wrongly charged without your consent. You have a right to rant about it and let others know how you feel.

Well you've clearly not read this thread properly have you? I was the one who's credit card was incorrectly charged and Plainsong was replying to this. Maybe you should change your name to JohnnyLightOn(butnoonehome)!!

 

[Big D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 let's keep using head-fi to boost our egos.

Don't want to make any comment on how great Sensaphonics are compared to UE? No? Just want to attack Bunnyears?

Maybe you should stop crapping on my threads with your childish comments.

 

[Big D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLightOn Fraud is a specific kind of theft. It requires intent. Technically, it's when someone intentionally misrepresents a material fact in order to induce you to give them money. Like if someone were to say, "I will sell you my new, in-box phones for $500," and when you received them they were obviously used and also damaged, and the seller knew it when he shipped them. That's typical fraud.

I have put the actual wording of Sensaphonics fit warranty above. The words "no extra charge" are used. I don't see how hard this is to comprehend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyLightOn I think what you are trying to say is that you were stolen from, which would be (in the U.S.) larceny, which is a general way of saying theft. Or, it could violate some banking law involving the improper charging of credit cards. You can argue that they induced you to give them your CC # in order to purchase your phones, but instead (additionally) used it to charge you for return shipping. But I don't think that was intentional on their part at the time you gave them your CC #. Because fraud requires intent, it's a more serious charge, and that's why I took issue with it. It implies a morally corrupt person, as opposed to a careless or even unethical person.

Taking payment for a service that is "no extra charge" is probably considered fraudulent by most people. Couple that with the fact they have given my confidential credit card details to a third party compounds the fraud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnuLightOn The point of my comments was that, most probably, some individual employee decided to charge your card for return shipping. It could have been malicious and intentional, such as someone there feeling that you unnecessarily caused them to tweak your phones, they didn't want to do the free work, too many audiophiles are asking for fit adjustments, and dammit they are not going to fork over the $40 to get these phones back to you after they had a tech spend an hour working on them. That would be very bad form on their part. But again, it could very well be a single employee who made a decision that the company itself doesn't sanction.

A company is liable for the actions of its employees. I'm a doctor and if I made an error then my hospital would be liable as well as myself. You also miss the point that they'll pay the $25-30 to ship to the US, but not pay any of the $45 to ship to the UK. The whole point of these custom fit products is that they will get them right for you. If they don't fit properly they are a complete rip-off at the price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLightOn Or, it could be an employee who unintentionally charged you. That could be someone who filled out a shipping form, selected "Bill Recipient", and copied-and-pasted your CC info without thinking it through. That would be far less bad, even though it's still wrong.

No I was informed afterwards that charging for shipping for international refits is company policy. However it doesn't seem to be company policy to inform the customer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLightOn The fact that they didn't return your e-mails compounded the problem because it made it hard to figure out what kind of intent the company actually had.

Oh they replied to my e-mails, just not with factual information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLightOn Beyond your posting, "I'm so pissed at these guys, they caused me a big hassle!" and responses of the sort, "That sucks! You have a right to be pissed!," I don't think there's anything else to say. This has happened one time, you let the community know, and if it becomes a practice, then I'm sure we'll hear about it from others. But one bad event doesn't make a practice. That's the message I seem to be hearing--that this was intentional, it's a practice, thus they're a bad company. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In any event, I support your right to be very pissed off about this.

I'm not the first person to have a bad experience with Sensaphononics so don't go pretending that this is some conspiracy to bring down a company. I wanted to warn international customers of a potential problem that Sensaphonics didn't seem keen to put in writing. The reason this has to be repeated is people such as yourself clearly haven't read the entire thread and are defending Sesnaphonics on misinformation.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Ultimate Ears and Sensaphonics are competitors in the same market - IEMs for professionals, but Sensaphonics also provides services as well as consulting. They have audiologists on staff (incl Mr. Santucci) who provide hearing tests. Ultimate Ears sells products. Sensaphonics sells products and services. UE does IEMs and that's all they do. They sell and provide customer support. If I wanted to buy a custom IEM, I would go to UE instead of Sensaphonics...not that Sensaphonics is bad, but some comments on this thread seems to suggest that Sensaphonics is a rotten apple of a company when it comes to some aspects of business practice and customer support.

 

[JohnnyLightOn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D Well you've clearly not read this thread properly have you? I was the one who's credit card was incorrectly charged and Plainsong was replying to this. Maybe you should change your name to JohnnyLightOn(butnoonehome)!!

Sorry, my apologies to you, Big D, and Plainsong.

 

[JohnnyLightOn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D I'm not the first person to have a bad experience with Sensaphononics so don't go pretending that this is some conspiracy to bring down a company. I wanted to warn international customers of a potential problem that Sensaphonics didn't seem keen to put in writing. The reason this has to be repeated is people such as yourself clearly haven't read the entire thread and are defending Sesnaphonics on misinformation.

Well I did read the thread but saw only one complaint about anything that could be called fraud, namely yours. Plainsong defended you so vociferously I thought for sure it was he who was wronged. But Plainsong doesn't count, because he wasn't wronged (if he was, he didn't mention it in this thread).

Bunnyears complained about turnaround time, fit adjustment method, packing method, their portable case, not supplying her with a replacement name plate, and shipping charges. Three people complained about lack of e-mail response. But none of that is outright theft.

You did warn people based on your experience, which is not only your right, but in a sense your duty as a member of this community. But given the tone of this thread, I felt it worthwhile to remind people that one possibly dishonest move does not a dishonest company make. It will have to take more than that. The plusses and minuses of this company are becoming clear as people post their experiences, but your one experience combined with Bunnyears' does not, IMO, justify the tone of this thread.

This has to be repeated not for me, as I did read the entire thread, but for others who only glance at the repeated vehement posts: this thread is about one improper shipping charge and one very pissed off customer, plus the complaints of Bunnyears I listed above.

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D Maybe you should stop crapping on my threads with your childish comments.

BigD, a suggestion: make use of the wonderful Ignore List on this forum. It helps in extreme cases like these...

 

[random person]

I must say this is the first time I've heard of a company passing on credit card information to a third party for billing. Yikes! Very upsetting.

To say that they are overwhelmed by volume is amusing -- what's the total number of orders from head-fiers for Sensaphonics -- 20 orders? 50 orders? Hardly an overwhelming number. Even if I'm off by a factor of ten, the fact is that competent companies inform their customers of wait times for both initial orders and fixes, and if they make a mistake about it, they call them again to apologize. As Bunnyears pointed out, consumers are used to waiting for expensive, custom products. What burns customers is not the waiting period, but rather being misinformed about how long it will actually take. (As it happens I'm waiting now for a $2500 chair. Months now! But at least I knew what I was getting into.)

High-end brands are built not through advertising, but by the quality of each and every customer interaction. Even when a company makes a mistake, customers appreciate apologies, straight-talk, and efforts to make things right. These are the kinds of experiences that build brand equity. There's even ample research evidence that negative experiences that turn out well in the end can actually be even more powerful in building brand loyalty: customers that had problems that were quickly resolved frequently end up respecting the company more than customers without problems.

What I liked about UE is their incredible responsiveness. I emailed a casual inquiry into their website and the President responded within an hour. Subsequent inquiries were answered equally quickly, and very thoroughly. Whenever I called them they were enthusiastic, patient, kind, and appreciative. They made me feel like I was their best customer. Even better, when they quoted me a delivery time (7 days from my order) they were accurate to the exact day. I felt that they loved what they were doing and appreciated my business. Their service, in fact, exceeded my expectations in every way. And as a result, regardless of my curiosity about Sensaphonic products, there's simply no way that I would give my future business to anyone but UE. They really made me feel like a rock star. I am now their customer for life, and am telling all my friends about them.

I'm sure Sensaphonics is a great company with great products. And it's unfortunate that they are finding out the hard way that consumers may not provide the best margins in the business. But the fact is that customers regardless of stripe deserve to have their expectations appropriately managed -- delivery times, redo times, promises made, promises kept, charges, and so on. If Sensaphonics can't do that they really should withdraw from this market segment, and stick to "undemanding" rockstars!

And Bunnyears -- I found your comments spot on. It's important for people to read about customer expectations from segments beyond "young-and-not-yet-affluent professionals" and "college students." And nice to hear from another woman as well!

 

[John Reeves]

Hi,

I was torn between Sensas and UE's, as are most of us. Since I couldn't audition them I made a choice based upon the responses I got from both companies regarding shipping to England.

I purchased UE's and had an excellent buying experience. Nuff said.

John

 

[halcyon]

Just something for Sensaphonic people to think about in case they are reading this thread...

I was about to order a set of Sensas with custom moulds based on a recommendation from a friend at head-fi.

Well, after this fiasco: no way.

At the very least, I'd expect a public apology towards Big D, an explanation of what happened and a promise that things like this won't happen again.

If not, bye-bye. There are plenty of other headphone gear makers in the world for me to spend my money on.

I'm sure loss of one customer won't cause you that much harm.

However, do understand that this is a sizeable community of headphone enthusiasts with capability and early willingness to spend money on your products.

You keep treating people like this and you will lose us as customers.

That is for certain.

regards,
halcyon

PS I've been treated badly in my mail-order dealings many times: shipped the wrong goods three times in a row, lied to, overcharged, money stolen, etc. One thing that I've learned through all this is that don't just let companies walk over you (whatever the reason) and let you suffer the losses. Be vocal, courteously demand what you've been promised and tell everybody else about your good/bad experiences. The word will get around. So in short: thank you Big D, for the heads up!