[Big D]

I've thought long and hard about this, as I know people will say any comments I make about the 2X-S will be biased because of my experience (see Lindrone's experience), but this is a really important issue for international Sensaphonics customers and they need to know.

My 2X-S were in my opinion too long when I received them as I could alter the sound closing my jaw, without breaking the seal. I contacted Julie at Sensaphonics who said could I detail the problem and that I should send them back. They were sent from the UK on Monday 18th October.

2 weeks later I'd heard nothing from Sensa so I sent an e-mail and I received one back on Friday 5th November saying that they were shipping that same day.

When I hadn't received them on 12th November I contacted Julie again, who explained they weren't coming expedited and could take longer. I was a bit concerned that a courier could take this long and I didn't even have a tracking number.

Then on about the 18th November I received an e-mail saying that my 2X-S had shipped. This was 2 weeks after I was told they had!! Eventually I received the 2X-S on Monday 22nd November.

It hadn't even been suggested to me that I would have to pay for the return shipping to me as it isn't on their site, in the information sent to me with the 2X-S, or in any of the e-mails I received. However it seems Sensaphonic were more than happy to pass on my credit card details to UPS so they could bill me $47/£26 which suddenly appeared on my credit card bill. As a result I have had to cancel my current credit card and have Halifax issue me a new one. No respectable company passes on credit card details to a third party unless required to by law and maybe someone in the US could confirm if this is a breach of the law (as I know it is in the UK - Data Protection Act). Sensa have since been forced to refund the money, though I am still slightly out of pocket.

It seems that international customers have to pay full shipping for remoulds, but US customers actually get FREE shipping and from my e-mail communications with Sensa it seems they aren't even prepared to deduct this cost from the cost for international customers. However they will make sure that international customers know about this in the future. Maybe new customers can confirm this?

If I were looking to get another pair I would only buy from the UK based company that JohnRich has. You have been warned.


When I compare the service I have received from UE when I had to return them a few times for fit and everytime I received them back by 48 hour courier to the UK at UE's expense, to that which I received from Sensaphonics, I know which is the clear winner.

 

[Flasken]

wow, just wow. That is just terrible - you said they were forced to pay in the end, how did that work out?

 

[cosmopragma]

Thanks for sharing your unpleasant experience.
Their misuse of your credit card data is considered to be a serious crime where I live.They are spending your money without your permission.
Nice.

 

[gorman]

Ouch! When I sent my UE-10 back to Ultimate Ears I gave them my specific permission to use my credit card details for shipping them back.

Nonetheless, they couriered my new pair to me, at their expenses.

 

[bLue_oNioN]

Thanks for relating your experience to us all. I don't have enough information on hand to plot a trend, but I have personally noticed that Sensaphonics replies to e-mails much slower than Ultimate Ears.

 

[PATB]

Sorry to hear about your experience Big D. I did not have to deal with Sensaphonics directly cause I got mine from my audiologist. I am happy with my Sensas but would think twice before getting another one of their products, considering they passed your credit card information without your authorization. That's a big NO NO in my book. Not answering e-mails right away also tells me that they have other priorities. I don't care how their product sounds -- I only want deal with companies where customer service is not an afterthought. I guess UE will be my next IEM vendor.

 

[digihead]

As Big D mentioned, refits are not prioritized above new orders. I had to send mine in for a refit. Instead of the 48 hour turn around on Ultimate Ears, Sensaphonics is taking 8 business days to simply shorten the stems on mine.

 

[Wmcmanus]

I haven't dealt with Sensaphonics myself, but have had decent service from UE. The brief email exchange that I did have with Sensaphoncs was at least pleasant.

It stinks that they were so slow in dealing with your issue. It also seems that Julie was dishonest about when they shipped the phones back to you, although that may have been a miscommunication in the office rather than an outright lie. One never knows for sure, but it certainly doesn't leave much of an impression on the consumer whether it was an outright lie or neglect to ship (if someone other than Julie was responsible for that) followed by an effort to appease the customer over the phone without verifying the facts. Either way, it stinks. I can see why you would be upset at that point.

Ok, the next part is just a question, and I can assure you that I'm not in any way trying to stir you up Big D, so please don't take this as a personal attack because it is not intended that way.

My only question would be this: If 1) there is no indication on their website that they are willing to absorb the shipping cost for refittings, and 2) they do not provide a gauranty that each customer will get a perfect fitting the first time, then why would you be surprised that they would bill you for this? This would seem to be out of the ordinary and not part of what was contemplated in the original purchase transaction. So often this happens in contract law issues where each party is operating under a different assumption. I agree with you and others who have posted on this thread that they handled the situation very poorly from beginning to end. Furthermore, Julie should have explained their billing policy to you because presumably this wasn't the first instance in which they had to do a refitting. And if it was just a matter of taking some length off of the stems, then you can make a good argument that this was a quality control issue (i.e., totally their fault) and not one having to do with imperfect ear impressions (i.e., an issue having to do with the audiologist, and thus not their fault). But despite all of these factors that weigh in your favor, if it wasn't clear who would absorb the shipping costs, why didn't you ask? My guess was that you assumed that they would absorb the cost, so it didn't occur to you to ask. They obviously assumed that you would be willing to absorb the cost, and they were in a much better position to make this clear to you, which they should have done.

Again, this wasn't to stir up anything personal. I'm just trying my level best to present the opposite side of the argument, such that there is one. I'm in total agreement that Sensaphonics messed up in the way that they handled this situation from beginning to end, and I'd be quite upset myself if it were me. What UE's policy is in terms of who pays the shipping cost for refittings is irrelevant in terms of solving which party should be legally responsible in this case since they weren't a party to the transaction. Of course, to the extent that they have better customer service, it will show up in their sales. But my guess is that, strictly speaking in contract law terms, Sensaphonics could make a good case that there was an implied in fact contract that the shipping costs would be absorbed by the customer.

I'm not clear on legalities surrounding the credit card issue. But had they billed your credit card directly rather than passing on your information to UPS then this would not be a problem (legally) because the implied in fact authority to charge your card would exist.

Once more, to make it perfectly clear, I'm not trying to stir up a nest. I'm just presenting what might be their perspective. If anyone from Sensa is reading this, one message that should come through loud and clear is that you should make your billing policies explicit on your website, or failing that, if you are going to surprise your customers, surprise them in good ways by getting the work out when promised (or before) and absorbing the cost yourselves when doing so might build goodwill with your customers.

As a result of this, my desire for the 2X-S has gone down a bit.

 

[PATB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus I'm not clear on legalities surrounding the credit card issue. But had they billed your credit card directly rather than passing on your information to UPS then this would not be a problem (legally) because the implied in fact authority to charge your card would exist.

Presumably, BigD gave Sensaphohincs his credit card information for the sole purpose of purchasing the 2X-S in the first transaction. That first transaction is over. Sensaphonics has no authorization (BigD, correct me if I am wrong) whatsoever to further charge BigD's credit card thereafter. Now, Sensaphonics would argue that the return of the Sensas constitute a continuation of the first transaction and, as you mentioned, BigD impliedly agreed to it. Of course, BigD will argue otherwise and may elect to have small claims court have a say on the matter. There are also jurisdictional issues that I would rather not get into.

The gist of this whole thread, shipping costs aside, is that Sensaphonics appears to have poor customer service. I cannot make this claim myself because I, fortunately, do not have to deal with them directly. There is no excuse on passing credit card information to third parties without authorization. I went to Sensas website and could not find their privacy statement. Also, if it is true that remolds have lower priority than new orders, that would be enough for me to question their customer service. The the missed e-mails and moving shipping date are also telling

Just my two cents.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB Just my two cents.

I'm in agreement with all that you've said, and again, am in no way trying to be an antagonist. I was just scratching my head trying to think of what the folks at Sensa could have possibly been thinking, or what their position might be now.

 

[lindrone]

There's also other complication that might help explain some of the confusion/problem during this time period:

1. Holiday season in United States, everyone's scrambling around on different vacations, first Thanksgiving, then Christmas. Around this time, company the size of Sensaphonics (keep in mind, they have maybe about 10 employees) probably has all sorts of vacation schedule to work around.

2. It is to my knowledge, I think around early November or so, there was an audiologist conference in Japan. A lot of the people responsible for day to day business (including Julie & Michael) went to this conference. Also keep in mind Julie is the one that answers most of the emails.

3. Sensaphonic is still more staffed and geared toward professional market. I'm guessing that their production line and method are as well. The soft silicone molding they make is much harder to create than the hard acrylic professional that UE uses. It is understandable that the manufacturing time is longer, and probably much more impacted during the time of the year such as this. They're probably not ready to deal with influx of Christmas shopping, and the professional musicians usually aren't touring this time of the year, or at least not starting new tours and getting new IEM's.

4. I don't think Sensaphonics ever expected this increase in business all of a sudden. It's rather a short time period from when they started gaining this influx of Head-Fiers who wants to acquire their IEM.... UE was advertising into the mass consumer market before that, where Sensaphonics never really intended to market to mass consumer market in the first place. I think they're probably going through some growing pains in terms of trying to fulfill order fast enough, and deal with all the consumer transactions.

 

[sclamb]

As I stated in a separate thread, if you are in the UK/Europe then you really should order your Prophonic Soft 2X from www.hearingprotection.co.uk. They call it the T2XS and it is the same in every way. All the parts are ordered from and supplied by Sensaphonics. At least one of the people who make the Sensa was trained by Hearing Protection in the UK.

Bob Bieny at Heaing Healthcare (http://www.hearinghealthcare.co.uk, the company that did my moulds) sends them to Hearing Protection for manufacturing, and he is good friends with Michael at Sensa and they talk often.

As an interesting side note, when I told Julie at Sensa that I was going to order from Hearing Protection she told me not to do so and to send my ear moulds off the Sensa as the T2XS was not the same as the 2X. Absolute rubbish! Not only are they EXACTLY the same, Sensa have a person making the 2X who was trained by Hearing Protection in how to make them!

I am very dubious about Sensaphonics in their attitude to me and their lack of responsiveness (took on average four days to answer each email) and would have to think carefully before dealing with them. I recommend all prospective European puchasers to contact Bob Bieny at Hearing Healthcare in the UK.

One the subject of passing the credit card details on to the shipping company, you have an excellent case for suing them. They have broken at least two UK laws and I am sure in the US probably a few more than that. You do need to be absolutely certain that there are no contractual clauses that indicate they are at liberty to do what they did, although if there are then it would be a very strange contract indeed.

Of course you probably don't want to get into litigation, but a rocket up their backside is certainly worth sending off!

Simon

 

[lindrone]

At the same time... whatever happened, 2X-S is more than worth its trouble imo... however the way of acquisition that one has to go through. I still would've rathered ordered 2X-S from Europe than any of the Ultimate Ears products (of course, easy for me to say that now, eh?).

On the other hand, it's still much better than the experience that some of us has to go through to get just what we want. For example, ever had a Gilmore amp that was more than half hour behind schedule built for you?

 

[plainsong]

I would be interested to see Sensaphonic answer here publically, as they have an account here. With no apology from them, this is nothing short of fraud. They must get permission from you to charge your card. It's that simple. I read this last night and am only posting now, so my memory might be foggy, but have you started a claim process against them with your credit card company? It matters not that they may have corrected their literature after the fact. The fact remains that they can't just use the card they have on file to charge the customer when they please. Each purchase needs an authorization.

And this is the second documented time at head-fi that they have exagerated the shipping date. Look, Sensa, if you don't know, it looks better for you to tell the truth and say you don't know, rather than lie and miss the date by a a couple of weeks.

I know Sensa is used to dealing with famous rich people, who don't notice when and for how much their cards are charged, but this level of service is not acceptable. All customers deserve to honesty from the company, and that means getting permission before charging the card. Otherwise, it's like you went up behind the customer and took £40 from his wallet.

This needs an apology. It doesn't matter how great the stuff you make sounds if you treat your customers so crappily.

 

[king896]

I hope this is not a normal trend for Sensaphonics! I was about to set a appointment with the audiologist recommended to me tomorrow, but now I have to take a step back and see if it is worth it. I am only 18 and I don't really keep to much money in my bank account unless I am preparing to be charged for something such as the 2x-s and now I would have to worry about giving Sensaphonics my credit card and charging me without my consent with the risk it might bounce against my account. I really hope this gets some sort of closer to it because that type of ethic is wrong. I guess this has scared me enough into looking into the UE-10's which originally hadn't really crossed my mind.