[Wyville]

Love them! That lush, syrupy sound is magic to my ears.

I'm quite an unconventional audiophile. I do not seek absolute clarity nor detail, and I don't like neutral IEMs and/or headphones. I love heavily-colored signatures, actually, such as a deep V-shaped sound. I'm also a huge basshead, so my preference is naturally skewed towards closed-back headphones.

I'm very far removed from the prototypical audiophile - that's the reason why the cans I love are all found in the lower-half of Crin's headphone list.

While I appreciate the sort of work Crin puts into his measurements and rankings, I also think it is only useful for a subset of audiophiles. I am much more like you, in that I prefer colour to add character to my music. I guess that is why the whole HD650 + OTL tube amp thing is so firmly stuck on my radar as my gateway into headphones (still IEMs only at the moment).

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Well, you could get a 600 and an OTL amp and still be quite happy, I imagine

 

[Wyville]

Well, you could get a 600 and an OTL amp and still be quite happy, I imagine

Someone recommended I check the HD600 out too and the description sounded interesting as well. My main challenge coming from portable gear is that I will need to get the whole setup (DAC, Amp and headphones) in one go, otherwise I won't have a source to drive the headphones properly. I considered the HD660S because those might be easier to drive (not sure if that is true in practice), but from what I understand the HD660S don't scale like the HD600/650 and that is one of the things that makes those headphones so interesting.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I haven't heard the 660S but from the specsheet looks like it was designed to be used with portable devices. I haven't read many favorable comments about it though.

I think your comment about needing all the gear (at least the Sennheisers and a good amp) in one shot is correct and unfortunately many people don't realize that and then have legitimate complaints about the sound quality.

 

[Wyville]

I haven't heard the 660S but from the specsheet looks like it was designed to be used with portable devices. I haven't read many favorable comments about it though.

I think your comment about needing all the gear (at least the Sennheisers and a good amp) in one shot is correct and unfortunately many people don't realize that and then have legitimate complaints about the sound quality.

I am doing my homework.

 

[Malevolent]

While I appreciate the sort of work Crin puts into his measurements and rankings, I also think it is only useful for a subset of audiophiles. I am much more like you, in that I prefer colour to add character to my music. I guess that is why the whole HD650 + OTL tube amp thing is so firmly stuck on my radar as my gateway into headphones (still IEMs only at the moment).

Crin's work is valuable - he takes the objective component of the hobby, and plants its flag, front and center. However, nothing trumps the subjective aspect of the entire hobby. A headphone may be at the pinnacle in technical-related elements, but its success is not guaranteed across a wide spectrum of listeners. How can it ever possibly be? We all have different preferences and varying needs.

If you look at the world of bassheads, a fringe group within the larger audiophile umbrella, the constituents of this subset may not necessarily agree on the exact definition of a good basshead product; some prefer tight, punchy bass, whilst others want a heavier low-end presence, at the expense of everything else. Then, there are others who fall in-between these bookends, in myriad points across the spectrum, and yet others go beyond the established boundaries.

Ultimately, the one person that I trust to assess the value and quality of a product, is myself. No one, that I have met thus far, has similar requirements, desires, and preferences for/in an audio product. I peruse reviews and opinions to garner a general understanding of the item at hand; however, a proper auditioning session will be, and always was, the deciding factor.

 

[Wyville]

Crin's work is valuable - he takes the objective component of the hobby, and plants its flag, front and center. However, nothing trumps the subjective aspect of the entire hobby. A headphone may be at the pinnacle in technical-related elements, but its success is not guaranteed across a wide spectrum of listeners. How can it ever possibly be? We all have different preferences and varying needs.

If you look at the world of bassheads, a fringe group within the larger audiophile umbrella, the constituents of this subset may not necessarily agree on the exact definition of a good basshead product; some prefer tight, punchy bass, whilst others want a heavier low-end presence, at the expense of everything else. Then, there are others who fall in-between these bookends, in myriad points across the spectrum, and yet others go beyond the established boundaries.

Ultimately, the one person that I trust to assess the value and quality of a product, is myself. No one, that I have met thus far, has similar requirements, desires, and preferences for/in an audio product. I peruse reviews and opinions to garner a general understanding of the item at hand; however, a proper auditioning session will be, and always was, the deciding factor.

Absolutely, nothing beats hearing something for yourself and with your own music. I enjoy writing reviews, but ultimately those are always just my own musings from one head-fier to another and I would never want anyone to spend their money based on my opinion. I always hope it simply helps people decide on what to look into more carefully and, when possible, go out to demo.

 

[Malevolent]

Absolutely, nothing beats hearing something for yourself and with your own music. I enjoy writing reviews, but ultimately those are always just my own musings from one head-fier to another and I would never want anyone to spend their money based on my opinion. I always hope it simply helps people decide on what to look into more carefully and, when possible, go out to demo.

Yeah, digesting reviews are a great way to paint a general picture of a product's capabilities. If you look at the reviewing engine in its entirety, it serves to filter the good from the bad; this makes the task of shortlisting potential buys an easier one.

 

[Evshrug]

Someone recommended I check the HD600 out too and the description sounded interesting as well. My main challenge coming from portable gear is that I will need to get the whole setup (DAC, Amp and headphones) in one go, otherwise I won't have a source to drive the headphones properly. I considered the HD660S because those might be easier to drive (not sure if that is true in practice), but from what I understand the HD660S don't scale like the HD600/650 and that is one of the things that makes those headphones so interesting.

The HD 600 is designed to sound very linear to the ear, based off of pro studio monitors and diffuse field measurements. The HD 650 is similar, but the upper mids/lower treble has been eased off in comparison to the HD 600 for the purpose of all day listening while our brains get used to it and it seems to still have a good balance between bass, mids, as treble.

The HD 660S is more similar compared to headphone from other brands, but it leans more HD 600 than HD 650. The difference in sensitivity (SPL) is greater than figures suggest, combined with the 150 Ω resistance which is in the sweet spot between dampening and easier drivability. If you read the discussion thread here on head-fi, there’s a good amount of activity.

 

[Wyville]

The HD 600 is designed to sound very linear to the ear, based off of pro studio monitors and diffuse field measurements. The HD 650 is similar, but the upper mids/lower treble has been eased off in comparison to the HD 600 for the purpose of all day listening while our brains get used to it and it seems to still have a good balance between bass, mids, as treble.

The HD 660S is more similar compared to headphone from other brands, but it leans more HD 600 than HD 650. The difference in sensitivity (SPL) is greater than figures suggest, combined with the 150 Ω resistance which is in the sweet spot between dampening and easier drivability. If you read the discussion thread here on head-fi, there’s a good amount of activity.

Thanks! I am in no rush and so taking my time to read up on things before I decide. The HD650 still seems like the most interesting option for my preferences and what I would ideally like to end up with as a desktop setup. Not in the least because I use music a lot during my working day, so I often spend long hours listening.

 

[PointyFox]

The HD 600 is designed to sound very linear to the ear

Except the bass...and the treble...

Anyway, those higher-end Sony headphones with their 70mm drivers have fantastic bass. My Z1R went even lower than my LCD-4. Though that 3.2-3.3 kHz spike got a little annoying at times; and happens to be the tone most fire alarms use.

 

[Evshrug]

Except the bass...and the treble...

I wrote “to the ear.” A flat line on a raw graph wouldn’t sound flat upon listening. The HD 600 isn’t perfect, but it is well within the range of “close without substantial compromises” and has almost two decades in service as a tool as well as a personal listening headphone.

Also, this graph isn’t marked... who made it?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I wrote “to the ear.” A flat line on a raw graph wouldn’t sound flat upon listening. The HD 600 isn’t perfect, but it is well within the range of “close without substantial compromises” and has almost two decades in service as a tool as well as a personal listening headphone.

Yeah this is it. A dead flat measured response will not sound very good to a human.

The proof is in the pudding. Everybody loves the HD 600s. People say they don't slam, they don't have enough sub-bass. But nobody says they're not smooth from top to bottom.

 

[PointyFox]

I wrote “to the ear.” A flat line on a raw graph wouldn’t sound flat upon listening. The HD 600 isn’t perfect, but it is well within the range of “close without substantial compromises” and has almost two decades in service as a tool as well as a personal listening headphone.

Also, this graph isn’t marked... who made it?

I do have experience with the HD600 and HD650. I used an HD600 from around 2001-2014 and went through 2 headband pads, 3 sets of ear pads, and 4 cables in that time.

I never said that the graph needed to be flat. I know what I'm talking about and assumed people were familiar with the technical details.

"To the ear" makes the graph even worse as it's nearly an inverted Harmon Response Curve. To sound flat, the bass and lower treble need a boost above flat, while the HD600 graph shows them as being lower than flat.

Source for HD600 frequency response (which aligns with every other measurement I've seen):

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd600-2/

 

[glassmonkey]

This list is so utterly ridiculous. I am not sure who comes up with the valuation and the score, but the Stellia with a C because of seal issues (?) … and hardly all other assessments do not reflect what I hear. It is a fun read, but this should clearly not be your guide for a buying decision.

There are some head-scratchers in there that make me think Crinacle might want to stick to measurements. That list is not good. He thinks the Utopia is neutral rather than neutral bright and a three star on value (it's $4000 and the Arya is competitive with it), and the Sendy Audio Aiva is warm and worse-tuned than the BLON BL20 (neither is true, the BLON BL20 is warmer and not as well tuned). He thinks the Clear is warm when it is the most neutral of Focal's lineup. Weird.I don't know if he did these ratings on short listens in Zeppelin and Co. or what he listened to before, but there are more weird ones past there. I actually liked the HD820 sound, but I only have had audio show listens. I didn't like the price increase.