[GREQ]

Perhaps he says the Momentum bass is better than the HD800, because it's actually there. The HD800 on a bass light system is a treble machine, and the Momentum on a bass light system just sounds wonderful. 
I compared both through my PA2V2 (which I know isn't super hifi but has enough power to fully demonstrate the 'sound signature') and the Momentum was the clear winner in the bass. At home on my bass heavy Fisher amp, I'm sure it would be the other way round.

 

[eron]

Quote:

 
I didn't feel they were as bad as how others have described it here, in the MDR-1R, or M-100 thread. However I did feel they were congested sounding. I just wonder if I didn't give them enough time.
 
The graphs don't seem to show the somewhat loose bass I heard though. Where is that?
 
Personally for me, if I'm looking for my isolating closed back end-game headphone, it'll be the Ultrasone Signature DJ or Signature Pro (if I can get hold of a properly working one). But the Momentum's weight and design is quite appealing.

The Momentum trumps most other headphones in the weight, design, and comfort level. It is the kind of headphone I would use if I'm mobile, moving, walking, running. It's when music becomes secondary,  that the Momentum clearly wins other headphones. If you want to completely immerse yourself in music, hear the details, the great soundstage, then there are other portable headphones, though mostly less comfortable. A portable headphone user can like the Momentum easily.
 
Early on in the Momemtum ownership, I didn't like the bass straight from the iP4 HP out. Through a Pico Slim, the bass was pleasant. The sound was good enough later on.
I would suggest buyers don't be over-critical in the Momentum's sound in the beginning, and appreciate its other qualities first. Then as an overall package at a later stage, decide if these suit your lifestyle. If you are mostly stationary, and not even standing when listening to the headphones, and don't listen to more than 1/2 hr, then other headphones might suit you more.

 

[stenheck]

Is the Momentum a good headphone for dance music like house, techno, dubstep, etc. or should I pick the Fidelio L1 or something else? In the Netherlands, I can pick these two headphone for both 150 euros, so I can save a lot of money.
 
Excuse for my English, is not so good

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

The Momentum trumps most other headphones in the weight, design, and comfort level. It is the kind of headphone I would use if I'm mobile, moving, walking, running. It's when music becomes secondary,  that the Momentum clearly wins other headphones. If you want to completely immerse yourself in music, hear the details, the great soundstage, then there are other portable headphones, though mostly less comfortable. A portable headphone user can like the Momentum easily.
 
Early on in the Momemtum ownership, I didn't like the bass straight from the iP4 HP out. Through a Pico Slim, the bass was pleasant. The sound was good enough later on.
I would suggest buyers don't be over-critical in the Momentum's sound in the beginning, and appreciate its other qualities first. Then as an overall package at a later stage, decide if these suit your lifestyle. If you are mostly stationary, and not even standing when listening to the headphones, and don't listen to more than 1/2 hr, then other headphones might suit you more.

Eron, you keep mentioning "other headphones". Can you spell them out, pretty please.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

 
hmm, I wonder if Tyll meant to say that. I wonder if he meant to say that it has better bass than the HD600 (which I would agree with) but not the HD800 (I'm with you on that one, no doubt)
 
As for the HD 25, those are just too V shaped in FR for my taste. The momentum have much better bass extension, less grain to the sound overall, and don't have the peaky treble of the HD 25. I wouldn't call the Momentum dull or fuzzy - even on my M-stage. I'd characterize them as a cleaner sounding HD650. better bass extension, similar FR, but smaller soundstage.

Based on Tyll's 30Hz SW data, the Momentums do indeed have much better extension than HD800.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserMomentum.pdf
 
And the important thing is that the Momentum 30Hz SW isn't wonky, it's almost 100% clean. Maybe not as clean as planars square waves but enough that objectively they measure fairly well-behaved and extended bass.
 
Also in terms of THD in the bass region, it seems one driver of Momentum is comparable to the THD cleanness of HD800 drivers in the lower bass region, the other driver however seems to be wonky, maybe a bad driver match.
 
Altogether yeah, measurement-wise Momentums do trump HD800 bass for the most part, except bass clarity. Of course it can be a different story with subjective listening, since things like texture can't be measured with much assurance. 
 
Of course, if that argument is held, then pretty much all planars (all Hifiman and Audeze, including HE400) can be said to absolutely obliterate HD800 in bass performance. All near-perfect 30Hz SWs, and extraordinarily low bass THD.

 

[LCfiner]

yes, it's true that it measures better with a deeper extension. But my memory of the HD800 bass was that it was cleaner, more textured and could still dig deep.
 
I chalk up the differences to the distortion differences present in the two headphones. there's more distortion with the momentum in the bass frequencies than with the HD800. It's a similar situation with the HD700 or HD650. they both sound like they have stronger bass than the HD800, but they also have more distortion than the HD800 bass, which produces additional bass tones and makes the bass notes stronger - even though it's not as faithful to the recording.
 
So that's why I'm a bit confused by Tyll's use of the word "better" to describe the Momentum bass vs the HD800. It's not as clear cut as that.
 
I guess it might just be a matter of semantics. the momentum bass is honestly very, very good. I've been comparing it to the HD700 and Mad Dogs this weekend and it holds up remarkably well. 

 

[Kyle 491]

Quote:

 
I wouldn't be surprised by your findings. The Matrix M-Stage has an output impedance of 5ohms and the Momentum pairs very poorly with it (I can confirm that). The HD800, HD600, HD-25 and other higher impedance headphones will sound much better with the M-Stage.

I have the Amperior here, which is also 15 ohms and it sounds better than the 70 ohm sennheiser HD-25-I-II from the Matrix M-stage. For that matter, the Momentum sounded better than the HD-25 from the M-Stage as I mentioned earlier in the thread in my little comparison between the two. The HD-25 sounds too V-shaped here with pretty harsh highs. I don't buy the argument that the M-Stage significantly hampers the low impedance phones as I've paired several IEMS (<20 ohms), the HD595 (50) and the AKG K701 (62) with it and it sounds very good.
 
I'm not trying to bash these headphones, Sennheiser is my favourite manufacturer and these are decent phones, yet I'm tired of the constant overhyping in every thread with every new closed back portable release in favour of real comparison and critical debate. The reason why the bass sounds loose in the upper bass and mid bass is due the heavily rolled off highs and small soundstage combining to obfuscate the layering and clarity/impact of this region (something pure measurements may not tell you). There is a similar effect, but to a lesser extent when comparing the upper bass impact and clarity of the HD800 versus the LCD-2. The HD800 can sound explosive yet refined in this region, while the LCD-2 sounded a bit dull to me (although I completely favour the LCD-2 Sub-bass as being technically better as well as more enjoyable).

 

[Moliat]

Sorry, throwing something rather random out here, but I'm considering buying these, and have a quick question I'd really appreciate an answer to.
 
 
 
What's the cup-size like? My ears are slightly larger than average, I'd say, and the gripe I've had with around-ear headphones in the past is the cups have been too small to accommodate my ears, and have instead ended up kind of squeezing the borders of my ears into my head. Naturally this was extremely uncomfortable when wearing the headphones more than an hour or two.
 
I'd say my ears are about 6,5 cm top to bottom. From experience, do you think the earcups will accommodate this?
 
 

 

[uelover]

Quote:

I have the Amperior here, which is also 15 ohms and it sounds better than the 70 ohm sennheiser HD-25-I-II from the Matrix M-stage. For that matter, the Momentum sounded better than the HD-25 from the M-Stage as I mentioned earlier in the thread in my little comparison between the two. The HD-25 sounds too V-shaped here with pretty harsh highs. I don't buy the argument that the M-Stage significantly hampers the low impedance phones as I've paired several IEMS (<20 ohms), the HD595 (50) and the AKG K701 (62) with it and it sounds very good.
 
I'm not trying to bash these headphones, Sennheiser is my favourite manufacturer and these are decent phones, yet I'm tired of the constant overhyping in every thread with every new closed back portable release in favour of real comparison and critical debate. The reason why the bass sounds loose in the upper bass and mid bass is due the heavily rolled off highs and small soundstage combining to obfuscate the layering and clarity/impact of this region (something pure measurements may not tell you). There is a similar effect, but to a lesser extent when comparing the upper bass impact and clarity of the HD800 versus the LCD-2. The HD800 can sound explosive yet refined in this region, while the LCD-2 sounded a bit dull to me (although I completely favour the LCD-2 Sub-bass as being technically better as well as more enjoyable).

 
It is not an argument that the M-stage doesn't pair well with low impedance sensitive phones. It is a scientific fact. I have thrown lower impedance headphones at it and they just don't sound good at all on the M-stage. I am not a fan of Sennheiser and the Momentum is the only headphone from them that I enjoy. Even then, I find the HD6XX to sound better than the Momentum when paired with the M-Stage. The K701 is another headphone largely recommended at the M-Stage thread as another ideal headphone to pair with it.
 
If you have an opportunity to listen to the Momentum with a properly designed amp for it, give it a shot. If you are closed off to that idea, its fine also. When I throw in an amp that is designed properly for the Momentum (my Leckerton UHA6SMKII) the whole thing started to sound phenomenal. Heck, even out of my iPad 4 the Momentum sounded very very good. I can't do a direct comparison against the HD6XX/HD800 under the same setup since the iPad 4 won't drive it well.
 
Hyping this headphone and describing our subjective impression are two different thing. The former is an attempt to describe the headphone as being better than what one actually hears and the latter is the describe the headphone just as being how it is being heard. Of course, one can regard all impressions as hype if it does not conform to reader's own belief/expectation/experience. However, this very act also fails to give the due respect for anyone who posted their impression in good faith as they are being doubted and criticized for hyping it.

 

[uelover]

Quote:

Is the Momentum a good headphone for dance music like house, techno, dubstep, etc. or should I pick the Fidelio L1 or something else? In the Netherlands, I can pick these two headphone for both 150 euros, so I can save a lot of money.
 
Excuse for my English, is not so good

 
Can't help you there since I have not heard the Fidelio L1. But 150Euros for the Momentum is really cheap!
 
 
Quote:

What's the cup-size like? My ears are slightly larger than average, I'd say, and the gripe I've had with around-ear headphones in the past is the cups have been too small to accommodate my ears, and have instead ended up kind of squeezing the borders of my ears into my head. Naturally this was extremely uncomfortable when wearing the headphones more than an hour or two.
 
I'd say my ears are about 6,5 cm top to bottom. From experience, do you think the earcups will accommodate this?

 
I did a rough measurement, vertical is 5cm and lateral is 3.5cm. Depth is around 2cm. Might be a little tight for you >.<

 

[LCfiner]

Regarding earcup size, I've been using them as on ear headphones since I got them and they're still really comfortable and sound great. I think they're worth trying out as on ear models if you happen to have larger ears.

 

[PolkManiac]

Quote:

Sorry, throwing something rather random out here, but I'm considering buying these, and have a quick question I'd really appreciate an answer to.
 
 
 
What's the cup-size like? My ears are slightly larger than average, I'd say, and the gripe I've had with around-ear headphones in the past is the cups have been too small to accommodate my ears, and have instead ended up kind of squeezing the borders of my ears into my head. Naturally this was extremely uncomfortable when wearing the headphones more than an hour or two.
 
I'd say my ears are about 6,5 cm top to bottom. From experience, do you think the earcups will accommodate this?
 
 

These will likely be too small for you

 

[Moliat]

Thanks a lot to everyone who responded to my question!
 
Quote:

I did a rough measurement, vertical is 5cm and lateral is 3.5cm. Depth is around 2cm. Might be a little tight for you >.<

 
5 cm? Are you sure? That sounds really tiny by any standards.
 
Excluding the... "ear flap" (?) at the bottom of the ear, my ears are about 6cm top to bottom, so that's a better measurement to use.
 
I'm going to order the Momentums and try them out, but if they turn out to indeed be too small, does anyone have any suggestions for equal-or-better-quality headphones priced up to $800 (USD)? Obviously the ear cups should then be a bit larger, and more portable if possible (noise isolation/canceling would be great too). I intend to use the headphones for music, videos and gaming, so similar audio-qualities to that of the Momentum would be great too.
 
As always I greatly appreciate all responses!

 

[uelover]

Thanks a lot to everyone who responded to my question!

5 cm? Are you sure? That sounds really tiny by any standards.

Excluding the... "ear flap" (?) at the bottom of the ear, my ears are about 6cm top to bottom, so that's a better measurement to use.

I'm going to order the Momentums and try them out, but if they turn out to indeed be too small, does anyone have any suggestions for equal-or-better-quality headphones priced up to $800 (USD)? Obviously the ear cups should then be a bit larger, and more portable if possible (noise isolation/canceling would be great too). I intend to use the headphones for music, videos and gaming, so similar audio-qualities to that of the Momentum would be great too.

As always I greatly appreciate all responses!

5cm is the internal vertical diameter. The Sony R1 is a good alternative. Comes with noise canceling option as well. Others such as the M4U2, UE9000 and etc, although bigger, are worth considering as well

 

[AnakChan]

Quote:

The Momentum trumps most other headphones in the weight, design, and comfort level. It is the kind of headphone I would use if I'm mobile, moving, walking, running. It's when music becomes secondary,  that the Momentum clearly wins other headphones. If you want to completely immerse yourself in music, hear the details, the great soundstage, then there are other portable headphones, though mostly less comfortable. A portable headphone user can like the Momentum easily.
 
Early on in the Momemtum ownership, I didn't like the bass straight from the iP4 HP out. Through a Pico Slim, the bass was pleasant. The sound was good enough later on.
I would suggest buyers don't be over-critical in the Momentum's sound in the beginning, and appreciate its other qualities first. Then as an overall package at a later stage, decide if these suit your lifestyle. If you are mostly stationary, and not even standing when listening to the headphones, and don't listen to more than 1/2 hr, then other headphones might suit you more.

 
Actually, IMHO, if the bolded the criteria then the MDR-1R would win out. They feel more comfortable and secure over the head than the Momentums and the MDR-1Rs are true circumaural. I'd grant the Momentums to be more "common hi-fi" sound with it's somewhat U-shaped signature.