[Gu Sensei]

Originally Posted by stillevil /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
There's simply no better IEM for me, end of story.
 

 
It is indeed a sweet thing when all the tumblers fall into place and audio nirvana opens up.
 
But, such enthusiasm as expressed above is plentiful in the threads of other biggies in this class- Shure SE846s, Westone W60s, and AKG K3003s. For me personally, I think they all sound great with various pros and cons, and if sound signature was the sole determining factor, I would have gone with the W60s. I also think if you are willing to deal with the less form-fitting universal versions of CIEMs, there are significantly better sounding options out there from Noble, Unique Melody, and others in this price range. A little extra money, the hassle of impressions, and some wait time for a pair of customs can yield some major sonic benefits as well. Still, I have no trouble believing that George and stillevil could try everything out there and walk away feeling certain they had the best pair of IEMs on the market. When something clicks, it clicks. 
 
I ended up going with the IE800s because I really wanted a high end ultraportable set of IEMs to have on hand when I didn't want to travel with bulky customs. Besides sounding quite good, the IE800s were tiny, light, comfortable and easy to insert and take out with no twisting or fussing with memory wire and wrapping cables behind my ears. Or so I thought... The cable noise and the non-preferable length issues were not evident in the demo conditions at the store, and I was pretty surprised when I got home, particularly in terms of the cable noise. I have not heard another set of IEMs that exhibit so much of it.  After quite a bit of fiddling, I was online looking for solutions and digging around my supplies trying to find a cable clip and alternate tips. Wrapping the cable around my ears helped, but it was difficult because of the short length from the Y-split and once getting them around, they pressed tightly around my neck leaving marks in just a few minutes. That also significantly shortened the cable length that I think is too short to begin with. It was not long before I thought the whole situation to be ridiculous.
 
These are very expensive earphones. They are designed to be worn straight down with the accompanying ear tips and apparently without a not-included cable clip. The drivers and casing are great. I just can't understand how they went into production with that cable and why there hasn't been a revised model since its release. I like having a shorter cable in certain situations, but for that price I think a longer extension could have been included (not to mention a wider range of tips and a shirt clip). If I had been completely in love with the sound signature, I would be willing to put up with some work-arounds, but for that amount of money, it is hard to see why they should be necessary. In the end, it was quite satisfying to be done with them.
 
It is always a bit of a crap-shoot with sound signatures, but people should be wary of the above issues when considering a purchase and really make an effort to try them out in person beforehand.
 
 
 

 

[privilege15]

 

I also think if you are willing to deal with the less form-fitting universal versions of CIEMs, there are significantly better sounding options out there from Noble, Unique Melody, and others in this price range

 
Unfortunately I already have Unique Melody CIEMs. Can't stand their sound signature. Money wasted...
 
And I can't but agree with you, IEM praises are in every topic. Everyone's taste is unique.

 

[Dobrescu George]

I wear around the ear, and all is fine. 
 
If worn straight down, you should not be moving with them, but I managed to take an energic walk with ie800 straight down, no problems.
 
The cables have been revisited a few times, and are problem free now, they are supple and produce very few microphonics, if used with the right way. 
 
I like the signature, and I would not really search for other IEMs, I think that Ie800 mathces everything greatly! To have such small housings I do accept the cables. The housings are sweet and sound sweet. 

 

[Conext]

Still, I have no trouble believing that George and stillevil could try everything out there and walk away feeling certain they had the best pair of IEMs on the market. When something clicks, it clicks. 

 
I wish that were the case for me.
 
In my instance, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with the IE800. I guess, in a way, one could say I'm addicted to the signature of the IE800—but not in a good way.
 
Despite trying them with different sources—all the way from a crummy old late 90's Creative MuVo, through an AK Jr. and Sony ZX2—I find the highs can be harsh, and in some cases, sibilant. However, the clarity that they deliver is, in my experience, simply unparalleled. Anything else that I listen to sounds muffled and veiled in comparison.
 
Thus, I keep coming back to the IE800s, even though I'll stumble across a new track or album occasionally which demonstrates that dreaded sibilance. I guess I need to get older so I become less sensitive to high frequencies.

 

[HiFiChris]

^^^

I've heard of the following mod for the IE 800:
You could try adding some fabric between the IEMs and the ear tips by stamping out little fabric circles with a hole puncher. This may tame the treble.

 

[Dobrescu George]

Another ideea to tame the highs is to use an eq, lower down the treble. Works wonders if you do not like them, but for me, they are merely not enough.
 
Sibilance is because the track is sibilant too. I have some tracks that are problematic, but over 95% of my entire music collection sounds sweet, without a hint of sibilance and harshness, and I do listen to a great deal of metal music.

 

[Conext]

HiFiChris: Yes, I've heard of that one before. Although, I vaguely recall that there was more detail to it than just that. I think the "weave" of the fabric was important as well? Something about fabrics that are woven too tightly can block too much of the upper frequencies?
 
George: You know, I don't think I've ever given much consideration to whether or not some of these tracks were recorded with sibilance. I suppose it's possible. But of all the songs that I have which exhibit the issue, I've never heard any sibilance from them in any other headphone or speaker that I've used.
 
Just out of curiosity—does anyone know of a good primer that explains sibilance and how it might get reproduced with some speaker setups, but not others?

 

[HiFiChris]

@Conext: Sure, as the fabric will act as acoustic damper by altering the acoustic resistance, the weave's density will play a role. You could just try different materials as this mod is reversible for the IE 800.
Though, as I don't have a problem with forward treble in general, I have never tried this mod myself, but know some people who have and are happy with it.
 
I don't know of any primer explaining sibilance, but it mainly occurs (if it is not caused by the recording itself) due to pronounced treble and/or steep spikes in that area. With speakers, on the other hand, room acoustics are important and alter the speakers' frequency response and reverberation time, also causing standing waves.

 

[Dobrescu George]

  HiFiChris: Yes, I've heard of that one before. Although, I vaguely recall that there was more detail to it than just that. I think the "weave" of the fabric was important as well? Something about fabrics that are woven too tightly can block too much of the upper frequencies?
 
George: You know, I don't think I've ever given much consideration to whether or not some of these tracks were recorded with sibilance. I suppose it's possible. But of all the songs that I have which exhibit the issue, I've never heard any sibilance from them in any other headphone or speaker that I've used.
 
Just out of curiosity—does anyone know of a good primer that explains sibilance and how it might get reproduced with some speaker setups, but not others?

sibilance is when you hear too much the letter S in spoken words... basically. 

 

[james444]

  HiFiChris: Yes, I've heard of that one before. Although, I vaguely recall that there was more detail to it than just that. I think the "weave" of the fabric was important as well? Something about fabrics that are woven too tightly can block too much of the upper frequencies?
 
George: You know, I don't think I've ever given much consideration to whether or not some of these tracks were recorded with sibilance. I suppose it's possible. But of all the songs that I have which exhibit the issue, I've never heard any sibilance from them in any other headphone or speaker that I've used.
 
Just out of curiosity—does anyone know of a good primer that explains sibilance and how it might get reproduced with some speaker setups, but not others?

  I don't know of any primer explaining sibilance, but it mainly occurs (if it is not caused by the recording itself) due to pronounced treble and/or steep spikes in that area.

  sibilance is when you hear too much the letter S in spoken words... basically. 

 
^ This. Just might add that sibilants are actually meant to sound, ermm, sibilant. When we talk about sibilance in headphones, we mean an excess of that sound, caused by excessive energy in that frequency range.
 
Here are two examples of borderline sibilant recordings that I use for testing:
 
"Ssso many Ssstars..."
 

 
 
"The sssea frozzze off the coassst of Franccce..."
 

 
 
 
As for treble damping, use a nonwoven fabric like e.g. a teabag (mild effect), a dried alcohol swab, or a microfiber eyeglass cleaning cloth (stronger effect). I usually use swabs like this one:
 

   
Just get one of those from your doctor or pharmacy, wait for the alcohol to evaporate and cut two pieces out of it (about 8-10mm).
 
Place it over the nozzle and put the tip back on. That's it.
 

 

[Dobrescu George]

Those two songs were not sibilant at all on my ie800. Not by far. They were relaxing, and sounded just right. The S sounds were on spot. 
 
I do know that sibilance means an excess of that sound. And I do have a few songs to shed some light about the difference.
 
Let me illuminate with something with a lot of sibilance a little later. 
 
About ie800, it depends with what you are powering it too. My setup is X5 + E12a all from Fiio

 

[james444]

  Those two songs were not sibilant at all on my ie800. Not by far. They were relaxing, and sounded just right. The S sounds were on spot. 
 
I do know that sibilance means an excess of that sound. And I do have a few songs to shed some light about the difference.
 
Let me illuminate with something with a lot of sibilance a little later. 
 
About ie800, it depends with what you are powering it too. My setup is X5 + E12a all from Fiio

 
Sibilance isn't a big problem on the IE800, as the 6-8kHz range is mostly taken care of by the chamber absorbers. 
 
The IE800's main treble spike is higher up @11kHz, that's where a little bit of added damping comes in handy (see Rin Choi's "ON SECOND THOUGHT #3").
 

 ON SECOND THOUGHT #3: While the stock metal mesh does not have any acoustic damping effect, adding a small amount of acoustic resistance at the output of IE800 not only dampens some of the harshness in the treble, it also increases the frequency bandwidth greatly. This is a must for any IE800 users.

 

[JaZZ]

I never had a problem with sibilance on the IE 800. But the treble sharpness constantly shines through, no matter how well I equalize it. Of course a 10-band graphic equalizer can only do so much.
 
I'm about to try the fabric mod, although I'm generally hesitant to destroy sound pressure, given that the driver membrane has to do the corresponding movement anyway, with consequential inertia effects and harmonic distortion... Also, as the foam inserts of various Sennheiser HD... headphones show (as well as various own experiments with speakers and headphones), this kind of sound dampers tend to make the sound dry – and the IE 800 already sounds a tiny bit drier than I wish.

 

[Conext]

   
^ This. Just might add that sibilants are actually meant to sound, ermm, sibilant. When we talk about sibilance in headphones, we mean an excess of that sound, caused by excessive energy in that frequency range.
 
Here are two examples of borderline sibilant recordings that I use for testing:
  As for treble damping, use a nonwoven fabric like e.g. a teabag (mild effect), a dried alcohol swab, or a microfiber eyeglass cleaning cloth (stronger effect). I usually use swabs like this one:
 

Ah, thank you. Those are some interesting samples.
 
To me, I would say you're right that the Stacey Kent sample is borderline. I think it pushes right up to the edge, but the sibilance isn't distracting.
 
The Al Stewart song, on the other hand is incredibly sibilant to my ears via the IE800. I don't have any of my other typical headphones with me. Although, I do have an ass-old pair of Sony MDR-E828. While it's nowhere near the IE800 in terms of, well, ANYTHING, I can still tell the sibilance is there—it just sounds more muffled and subdued.
 
And thanks for the clarification on the fabric type.
 
I wonder if a used laundry fabric sheet might also work?
 

 

[JaZZ]

With xnor's graphic equalizer for foobar2000 I found a curve that produces a smooth and natural treble (at least to my ears) – although it's even more pronounced than originally. Here's the download link for those interested to try it.
 
[edit: curve slightly modified]