[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark2410 /img/forum/go_quote.gif i think its just the warmth, i know when i fist had my IE7 i for a while felt the treble seemed so much cleaner and clearer on the 751, that was till i put the denons back in my ears right after the senns. so much more muddy but when you do it the other way around the warmth of the senns doesnt give them that ety esq razor sharp impression but the 8 really are super sharp. they are an IEM that i felt went v well with the icon and when paired spit out some of the very best treble ive heard. id say the RE-0 beat them but thats about it, BA never really get treble quite right i think, no real shimmer on the very high frequencys

My thoughts are from A/B listening both ways (C710 -> IE8 -> C710 for example). That is why I started the veiled IE8 thread, I was wondering if there was something wrong with them. Did I burn them out (vs. burn in), ha ha? Because I do remember thinking the IE8 sounded absolutely fantastic with great detail (albeit still not as clear as the W3, but on par with the PFE) and no veil.

I guess my ears will tell me when my replacement comes, and I hope I get the IE8 magic back!

 

[rebski]

Quote:

I guess my ears will tell me when my replacement comes, and I hope I get the IE8 magic back!

That should be interesting having a second run at the process.

 

[average_joe]

Yea, I am looking forward to it, and not at the same time.

 

[thechungster]

This is annoying. The replacement IE8 I got (Almost 3 weeks ago) have got EXACTLY the same problem as my first pair. The left driver has gone quiter than the right

It's not a problem with my ears because I've swapped the wires around and the right was still louder, nor is it source problem. Has anyone else had this problem time and time again, and is there anyway to stop this? All I've been doing is burning them in (At 200 hours of pink noise and 50 of music.)

 

[partysnatcher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif You haven't read all the comments in this thread about that have you? Almost everyone experiences that until at some point they declare the IE8 to have completed burn-in. For me, there were big changes in the first 24-48 hours, then the remainder took 400+ hours before I could accept the sound. For others they were happy at the end of 24-48 hours, but for me the bass remained overpowering and cloudy, with some recessed mids and highs. I had to try several tips and a few sources and amps to make them sound right. So, the only time I used the IE8 now is with my laptop > Pico DAC > ALO Amphora > IE8 when I don't want a lot of isolation from an IEM (to hear my family calling, etc), or don't want to wear a full size headphone.

well, I read a good 150+ pages, seriously, and to me it seemed like people had one of three angles to enjoying the IE8:

1) they liked the IE8 sound from the start.
2) they disliked it, but bought new tips or found a new way of positioning the tips.
3) they burnt the set in for 2-300 hours ++.


So far, I am at 2). If I do it "right", and seal the tips completely by pulling the ear back, and sealing the tips into the inner ear (as described in the IEM sticky thread), I get the described cloudy / muffled sound, with an overpowering bass which to me seems to be not a bass boost, but a resonance inside the inner ear which affects the entire spectrum.

I left them to burn in over the weekend (75 hours), but was a bit disappointed to hear no difference (using for instance The Darkness - Bald, which sounds very choked and muffled).


But if I just put the IEMs at the beginning of my inner ear, then wiggle them slightly in to the point where they stay, but aren't "stuck", I start off with a pretty damned nice airy / detailed sound, which proves that the IE8s can pull off quality sound.

However at this position, there is less bass / punch / atmosphere, and you can easily justify the bass adjustor that almost noone here seem to use. At least one other IE8 owner in this thread concluded with this shallow insertion as his solution to the IE8s, that this is how they are "supposed" to be used.


I am a bit surprised that experienced Sennheiser engineers can make a high end IEM with a bass attenuator that most people here, including bassheads, seem to consider a useless hyped selling point over the IE7s. Isn't that a bit strange? If people have been using them right, and this bass boost is just an uncontrolled boom, the concept reminds me of those cheap "bass boost" buttons on portable players. Would Sennheiser seriously do that?

On the other hand, if the IE8s seriously need 400+ hours to burn in, I would consider that a production flaw in this price range. So - to me, the "insertion depth tweak" seems more likely (I will of course give it it's 400+ hours and try deep inserts).

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by partysnatcher /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, I read a good 150+ pages, seriously, and to me it seemed like people had one of three angles to enjoying the IE8: 1) they liked the IE8 sound from the start. 2) they disliked it, but bought new tips or found a new way of positioning the tips. 3) they burnt the set in for 2-300 hours ++. So far, I am at 2). If I do it "right", and seal the tips completely by pulling the ear back, and sealing the tips into the inner ear (as described in the IEM sticky thread), I get the described cloudy / muffled sound, with an overpowering bass which to me seems to be not a bass boost, but a resonance inside the inner ear which affects the entire spectrum. I left them to burn in over the weekend (75 hours), but was a bit disappointed to hear no difference (using for instance The Darkness - Bald, which sounds very choked and muffled). But if I just put the IEMs at the beginning of my inner ear, then wiggle them slightly in to the point where they stay, but aren't "stuck", I start off with a pretty damned nice airy / detailed sound, which proves that the IE8s can pull off quality sound. But at this position, there is less bass / punch / atmosphere, and you can understand the need for the bass adjustor that almost noone here seem to use. At least one other IE8 owner in this thread concluded with this shallow insertion as his solution to the IE8s, that this is how they are "supposed" to be used. I am a bit surprised that experienced Sennheiser engineers can make a high end IEM with a bass attenuator that most people here, including bassheads, seem to consider a useless hyped selling point over the IE7s. Also, if the IE8s seriously need 400+ hours to burn in, I would consider that a production flaw in this price range. So - to me, the "insertion depth tweak" seems more likely (but that is also a bit weird). I will of course give it it's 400+ hours.

Several of us felt the recessed mids and treble didn't really fill in until after 250 hours. I also noticed the same deal where a shallow insertion (or less seal) improved the sound before they were burned-in, and it still helps even now. The Sony hybrid silicone tips (green center) that I am using are a little smaller than I normally use and don't seal as well as the eBay bi-flange that many of us raved about early on, but the bass is not as boomy this way and makes them work with a wider variety of sources/amps. I will still use an amp to correct the sound issues that remain, so I haven't sold the IE8 yet because I can tune the sound to make it work. It really is a benefit sometimes to have an IEM that doesn't isolate so well, when I need to be aware of things going on around me.

Strangely, even though the ALO Amphora is not a bass-lite or forward sounding amp, I can use the better sealing biflange tips and still get very well controlled bass and filled in mids and highs. It's like magic that the amp adjusts to the various phones I plug in. Another good match is my Qinpu A-3 amp which is not recommended for low impedance phones below 100 ohm, since the 1/8" is really a pre-amp out - but when used with the 16 ohm IE8 the bass is tamed nicely, mids and highs are filled in, and the sound is good as well. I can tune my iBasso D10 to work well with the IE8, but then it doesn't sound good with anything else except my HD600, so I don't bother.

 

[partysnatcher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif Several of us felt the recessed mids and treble didn't really fill in until after 250 hours. I also noticed the same deal where a shallow insertion (or less seal) improved the sound before they were burned-in, and it still helps even now. The Sony hybrid silicone tips (green center) that I am using are a little smaller than I normally use and don't seal as well as the eBay bi-flange that many of us raved about early on, but the bass is not as boomy this way and makes them work with a wider variety of sources/amps. I will still use an amp to correct the sound issues that remain, so I haven't sold the IE8 yet because I can tune the sound to make it work. It really is a benefit sometimes to have an IEM that doesn't isolate so well, when I need to be aware of things going on around me. Strangely, even though the ALO Amphora is not a bass-lite or forward sounding amp, I can use the better sealing biflange tips and still get very well controlled bass and filled in mids and highs. It's like magic that the amp adjusts to the various phones I plug in. Another good match is my Qinpu A-3 amp which is not recommended for low impedance phones below 100 ohm, since the 1/8" is really a pre-amp out - but when used with the 16 ohm IE8 the bass is tamed nicely, mids and highs are filled in, and the sound is good as well. I can tune my iBasso D10 to work well with the IE8, but then it doesn't sound good with anything else except my HD600, so I don't bother.

All right, well, that is a good reply that fits my impressions nicely.

Yes, when inserted fully to a complete seal, amps are definitely more of an issue than with other phones, but isn't that typical for colored speakers?

I still have to say that Sennheiser designing the bass knob as a "cheap toy" sounds a bit weird to me. To me it seems obvious that when audio engineers design a product with bass adjustment abilities, they would make sure to set the lowest setting with little to no bass (as a very shallow insertion gives me), to grab a piece of the part of the market that are less enthusiastic about bass.

And when you still, after the burn-in, confirm that an "insertion tweak" improves the sound (I mean.. they sound significantly better shallow / half-sealed, and to me much more "neutral", which you would expect from a high-end audio product), it's hard not to think that this is how they were designed?

 

[midoo1990]

Dude,alot of headfiers said this million times,any dynamic phone or Can need alot of burning in time to sound good as what they supposed to sound,so this is not a sennheiser problem ss you said,ITS YOUR problem for not reading this thread as properly as you said.before i bought the ie8,i read this thread(200+ pages)twice,one of them seriously and the other one was taking notes for tip-s modes,insertion problems and WHAT TO EXPECT FROM THE BEGINING.i am not trying to insult you in anyway or question your credibilty for you reading this thread,but you should have expected what you will get for your money based on others very useful reviews and impressions.
As for insertion depth,you shouldnt insert them deep because this will make the sound muffeled as you said,but shallow insertion as i do i know reduce the bass, but it is not in anyway lacking or boomy,it is controlled and has a grate slam but for me not as good in quality not quantity as the fx500 or reverb for low bass notes as the fx500.i actually use the bass knobe and raise it gone or two notches to boost it alittle bit,but even at the maximum level,it is not boomy,it can be less controlled and powerful BUT not boomy,not for me at least.just wait for it to fully burn in and you will see a different beast,or not.
Hope it works for you.
cheers.

 

[MusicalMetal420]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechungster /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is annoying. The replacement IE8 I got (Almost 3 weeks ago) have got EXACTLY the same problem as my first pair. The left driver has gone quiter than the right It's not a problem with my ears because I've swapped the wires around and the right was still louder, nor is it source problem. Has anyone else had this problem time and time again, and is there anyway to stop this? All I've been doing is burning them in (At 200 hours of pink noise and 50 of music.)

I had a similar problem to the ones you seem to be having. Are you wearing them down or up (the way the guy on the box is)? Whichever way you're using them, try the other way, it may help.

 

[iponderous]

I can't help thinking that partysnatcher has made some valid points. It seems ridiculous to me that an earphone that is priced to compete with top-tier universal IEMs is so problematic with fit and then there are the burn-in recommendations, which I find laughable. This phone appears to require more burn-in time than full-sized dynamic headphones. And the bass boost feature does nothing to add to its credibility either from my perspective. I know that this is the IE8 Appreciation Thread but my reading of it hardly instils me with confidence.

 

[partysnatcher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dude,alot of headfiers said this million times,any dynamic phone or Can need alot of burning in time to sound good as what they supposed to sound,

I disagree, most discussions of the more neutral phones are much less about the burn-in. Read the JH-13 thread and you will find some people recommending "a few hours", but most not requiring any. That is an extreme example of course, but it goes for most other quality headphones and speakers I have tried.

What is Sennheisers commercial / marketing strategy with a product which more or less demands several hundreds hours of burn-in? That means that people have to go to head-fi not to hate them? Sounds like a bit unlikely strategy to me.

Quote:

i am not trying to insult you in anyway or question your credibilty for you reading this thread,but you should have expected what you will get for your money based on others very useful reviews and impressions.

I read 150+ pages. How I will tweak and work to get the most out of my money with IE8, is one discussion which I am of course interested in.

But trying to figure out Sennheisers design philosophy behind IE8, is another discussion which I am not sure has happened in this thread. Is for instance the shallow insertion / imperfect seal some unique sound improvement feature discovered by head-fi, or is it intended by design? It certainly seems it is by design, with the bass knob becoming useful.

It is weird that the bass knob is described as adjustable from "bassy" to "very bassy" rather than "minimum" to "maximum" as you would expect. It is also weird to see a high-end product demanding 400+ hours, which is very very rare in hifi in general. And why is it so similar to IE7? Etc.

Quote:

As for insertion depth,you shouldnt insert them deep because this will make the sound muffeled as you said,but shallow insertion as i do i know reduce the bass, [.. ] i actually use the bass knobe and raise it gone or two notches to boost it alittle bit,but even at the maximum level,it is not boomy,it can be less controlled and powerful BUT not boomy

Like I said, shallow insertion + bass knob gives me a airy, musical, detailed quality sound, full insertion does not. That is my impression now at about 90 hours. I will keep discussing and posting impressions with different insertions as I approach 400+.

 

[partysnatcher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't help thinking that partysnatcher has made some valid points. It seems ridiculous to me that an earphone that is priced to compete with top-tier universal IEMs is so problematic with fit and then there are the burn-in recommendations, which I find laughable. This phone appears to require more burn-in time than full-sized dynamic headphones. And the bass boost feature does nothing to add to its credibility either from my perspective. I know that this is the IE8 Appreciation Thread but my reading of it hardly instils me with confidence.

Agreed, but let me point out that I actually have faith in the IE8s. With the correct shallow insertion, for me they produce a very unique quality sound which I am enjoying as we speak.

What I really want to know is whether Sennheisers engineers have had them fully inserted into their ears when they designed them, or not.

 

[midoo1990]

why are bringing the jh13 pro to this discussion,it is not even a dynamic iem and it doesnt need burn in like dynamic it is supposed to sound good from the begining.as for the design,i think that the design team intended to make the ie8 have shallow design to make the soundstage so big and for airness to be present in the music,but i am not sure.ya,they need ALOT of playing with the tips and ya their design is awkward as hell,but once you find the right tip,i think you will have nothing to complain about.as for the bass knob,i think you are right about your complain,it doesnt make much sense.Burn in differes greatly from ie8 to another ie8 and from one person's ear to another,some liked them out of the box,some said they sounded excellent after 20 hours and others after 100 or even 300+ hours.AGAIN,you cant complain about burn in because this is very confusing disscusion and phenomena and some believes in it and others no.i burned my ie8 for 36 hours and they were an entirely different beast from out of the box,i continued to listen to music on them heavily till i hit the 72 hour mark and the trebe opened up ALOT,ALOT and then there was no change from there on.very confusing matter i know but IMHO it is true and there is major changes with burn in.

 

[partysnatcher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif why are bringing the jh13 pro to this discussion,it is not even a dynamic iem and it doesnt need burn in like dynamic it is supposed to sound good from the begining.as for the design,i think that the design team intended to make the ie8 have shallow design to make the soundstage so big and for airness to be present in the music,but i am not sure.ya,they need ALOT of playing with the tips and ya their design is awkward as hell,but once you find the right tip,i think you will have nothing to complain about.as for the bass knob,i think you are right about your complain,it doesnt make much sense.Burn in differes greatly from ie8 to another ie8 and from one person's ear to another,some liked them out of the box,some said they sounded excellent after 20 hours and others after 100 or even 300+ hours.AGAIN,you cant complain about burn in because this is very confusing disscusion and phenomena and some believes in it and others no.i burned my ie8 for 36 hours and they were an entirely different beast from out of the box,i continued to listen to music on them heavily till i hit the 72 hour mark and the trebe opened up ALOT,ALOT and then there was no change from there on.very confusing matter i know but IMHO it is true and there is major changes with burn in.

I agree the sound is very nice and airy when semi-sealed with the right tips. This is what I wanted in my IEM when I asked for advice here.

If it is true that the shallow insertion is the standard, I would love to see an "official" statement from Sennheiser on this. IMO they should have designed the tips with air vents or similarly, and/or specified the desired fit in the manual when so many people here seem to agree on the same.

The shallow insert, although I really (!) like the sound after positioning them "right", does feel improvised and flimsy. "Is this the same sound as last time I put them on?" Etc. And when the specific insert isn't mentioned by Sennheiser, you start wondering. When you buy high-end audio, you should not have to do this much of the job yourself.

I remember reading this thread, being really annoyed at the people who "rained on the parade", hehe. So let me assure you I am not discussing like this to be "difficult"!

What I am saying is that we shouldn't have to discuss extensive tweaking on a high-end product like this.


So here I am in front of my computer, and after a lot of tweaking, I am currently listening to a gorgeous, huge airy soundstage with delicate highs in my IE8s, and people are promising me more after burn-in..

.. the problem is I'm not sure if I dare take them out and re-position them.


Edit: Now I found a slightly different angle to the shallow insertion which gives me a stable bass without being affected by jaw positioning, and this is actually getting pretty damned impressive.

But seriously. My points above remain valid.

 

[partysnatcher]

Hmmm, the sound on the position I found in my last post, is actually pretty damned good, now this really "alive" without feeling flimsy.

Since receiving them, I've had to pick the right music for the IE8s not to sound bad, but for the last half an hour, the IE8s are making the music sound damned good, finally!!

It sounds very right now, but there is something fishy about this. Do you really, by design, have to do this much to get the right sound?
And has anyone gotten them to sound good with a complete seal at all?


My experiences so far:

- The smallest biflanged tips.
- I have the bass knob at 50%. I refuse to have the bass knob at 0% and accept that audio engineers with years of experience who have been tweaking knobs for decades, have designed an overpriced and useless feature.
- I start inserting at the beginning of the inner ear and wiggle and tap them carefully in place until the bass sounds moderate, like the "medium" / 50% that my bass knob indicates.
- A complete seal / deep insertion destroys the sound, period. I can hear the "wrong" effect instantly now, after setting the bass knob at 50%.
- If the stereo imaging sounds "dead" / weird / artificial, one of the ears is positioned differently from the other. They need to be exactly the same.
- With a shallow insert, it is hard to get an angle on the phones where the jaw can't affect the sound. Fixing this is very important to get the feeling that you have found the position and can start listening.