[Sid-Fi]

I thought I would mention a comment regarding IE8s bass knob. It's largely been considered to be a gimmick throughout this thread since IE8 is so bass heavy stock at minimum settings. I have typically agreed and considered it a gimmick myself...until recently.

As I've stated in the past on this thread, I'm using IE8 with my Ibasso D10 with the latest topkit (see sig). I'm amazed at how much this kit reduces bass on IE8 while also extending it deeper. At first, I really liked the drastic reduction in bass as it gave me a much more neutral sound signature that allowed me to feel more immersed in music and appreciate the subtle cues more. More recently however, I have started to feel like the topkit was actually castrating the bass to some degree rather than just harnessing it.

To make a long story shorter, I have my bass knob set at 2-3 now and it is just exquisite. It is very tight, extended, and controlled without leaking into the rest of the spectrum or being fatiguing at all. With a nice amp combo that controls IE8 bass nicely, but possibly a tad more than ideal, it is extremely valuable to be able to boost bass back up a tad with the knob. I'm sure glad IE8 have the knob now or I'd likely be annoyed and stuck between op amp choices that are either too bass-heavy or bass-lite.

Larry, from all of your comments, I get the impression that my IE8 with bass knob at 2-3 with topkit might be giving me a similar (though likely lesser still) sound to that of your IE8 with Amphora. The bass is now super controlled and non-fatiguing, but is by no means bass-lite which gives music a fuller, meatier, and more impressive sound.

 

[HONEYBOY]

Hey Sid Fi you're really making me want to get that D10. I don't find the IE8 to be all that forgiving with low bit rate files but they're still listenable.Do you at all find that D10 + IE8 combo to be ruthless or very unforgiving with low bit rate files?

 

[midoo1990]

^^ya i am interseted too in the D10 as i recently got the ipod touch 2g,can you comment on the difference in mids(still recessed)and the soundstage(bigger or same)when the ie8 is coupled with the D10? on another note,i also find the ie8 not forgiving on low quality rips HONEYBOY and some of my 256kb sound bad on them because it is not enginered well.they are not forgiving as the fx500 at all....

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid-Fi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Larry. It sounds like Isabellina HPA might be my long-term solution goal to start saving for. Man does this get expensive. It's funny how insane $2,500 would have seemed to me six months ago. D10 with topkit and IE8 have been enough to totally whet my appetite to the point where $2,500 doesn't seem so bad once I get it, lol. It sounds like you can relate though. I noticed you upgraded to Woo WES, which sure looks pricey and high end. Hopefully I'll get around to reading your impressions on it soon.

Well, I am still raising the money for a WES. I have an interest check on selling the GES but offers are all low-ball as if it wasn't maxed with extra inputs and outputs. I did sell the SR-404LE to go towards it. The hard part comes if I have to sell stuff I'd rather keep (APS v3 RS-1, Square Wave XL, K1000, etc). I have about $1200 put away so far, and selling the GES could get me to $3000, which is still not enough.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid-Fi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Larry, from all of your comments, I get the impression that my IE8 with bass knob at 2-3 with topkit might be giving me a similar (though likely lesser still) sound to that of your IE8 with Amphora. The bass is now super controlled and non-fatiguing, but is by no means bass-lite which gives music a fuller, meatier, and more impressive sound.

The IE8 was definitely not bass-lite with the Amphora, which eliminated the bass-bloat while fixing the recessed mids and highs. With the Amphora the IE8 finally sounded like a $400 IEM.

Still, with my JH13Pro, ES3X, UE11pro around I just didn't need the IE8 when I could only enjoy them on the Amphora and D10 with topkit. The D10 was not nearly as good with IE8, but was still better than my other portable amps (and perfect for my UE11pro). That's why I traded the IE8 for another W3 at RMAF after I lost my W3 this summer.

 

[Sid-Fi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif The IE8 was definitely not bass-lite with the Amphora, which eliminated the bass-bloat while fixing the recessed mids and highs. With the Amphora the IE8 finally sounded like a $400 IEM. Still, with my JH13Pro, ES3X, UE11pro around I just didn't need the IE8 when I could only enjoy them on the Amphora and D10 with topkit. The D10 was not nearly as good with IE8, but was still better than my other portable amps (and perfect for my UE11pro). That's why I traded the IE8 for another W3 at RMAF after I lost my W3 this summer.

Yeah, I could really see how the IE8 would not be very worthwhile with all of the different and much higher end gear you have. They definitely are very picky about what gear they will sound good with and don't make much sense when they don't work well with the majority of amps you own. I do think IE8 is well suited for someone like me though who uses them as a main phone while getting started from having no gear and can stick to a DAC/amp that is well tailored for it in the meantime.

I am really curious to try out W3 since it is the main other option in the same price range while clear upgrades like JH13 or UE11 cost so much more. I might try and find someone who would be interested in swapping them for a week or two to compare. That might be hard though as a newer member.

Is the difference in sound quality between the DAC section of D10 and those of higher end DACs like DAC1 and Isabellina really that big? I have always heard that D10s DAC scales pretty well. I wonder if I would be better off investing in a better amp like Amphora first rather than saving and saving...and saving for Isabellina HPA. Either way, I need to get my Wadia 170i and custom tips first, which I should be able to do mid-November. It's gonna be hard to save patiently for the next level of upgrades.

 

[iponderous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif The IE8 was definitely not bass-lite with the Amphora, which eliminated the bass-bloat while fixing the recessed mids and highs. With the Amphora the IE8 finally sounded like a $400 IEM. Still, with my JH13Pro, ES3X, UE11pro around I just didn't need the IE8 when I could only enjoy them on the Amphora and D10 with topkit. The D10 was not nearly as good with IE8, but was still better than my other portable amps (and perfect for my UE11pro). That's why I traded the IE8 for another W3 at RMAF after I lost my W3 this summer.

Interesting, I don't find the IE8's highs or mids at all recessed and that's coming straight from my ipod touch. You've heard the UM3X's, how do the highs of those compare to the IE8's?

 

[Sid-Fi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HONEYBOY /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey Sid Fi you're really making me want to get that D10. I don't find the IE8 to be all that forgiving with low bit rate files but they're still listenable.Do you at all find that D10 + IE8 combo to be ruthless or very unforgiving with low bit rate files?

Hi Honeyboy. I'm glad my comments are intriguing you about D10. With the topkit, it is in IMHO far and away better than my IE8 alone out of headphone out. The more time I spend with it, the more and more I learn to discern and appreciate the improvements it brings. At first, the amp stage was the obvious and drastic improvement while using the DAC was more subtle. Over time though, I am learning to discern and appreciate the improvements from the DAC much more (much clearer, much more detail, more accurate location etc.) and they are easily equivalent to the amp benefits now. After a full month listening with D10 and topkit, whenever I listen to IE8 now out of the headphone out of my Ipod Classic or Cowon O2 (good headphone out) they sound flat out bad relatively speaking, even with lossless files. IE8 is my first audiophile grade headphone and D10 is my first dedicated DAC/amp so the benefits of each really took me some time to learn to hear and discern.

As for your and Mido1990's question about lower bit rate files with D10, I actually find that my D10 significantly improves them and has the opposite effect of being unforgiving. My lower bit rate music are mostly Amazon 256 kbs mp3s and my experience is that my D10 polishes them up and makes them sound much fuller and smoother as opposed to ruthlessly exposing them. That being said, I haven't really experimented with 128 kbs files as I personally steer clear of those.

For example, I have a few Govi albums that I really like that are 256 kbs Amazon downloads. I did some A-B comparisons of these with IE8 out of my iPod 5G headphone out and with it LOD > D10. Out of headphone out the drums sounded very faint, thin, and distant - kind of like a cheap metronome- but when listening through D10's amp the drums drastically changed to sound like someone hitting bongo drums in the same room. I couldn't believe it and was flabbergasted. My experience has been that the improvements are less drastic on the main vocals and primary instruments on since they are the focal point and seem to survive the most from compression (still nice improvements). The improvement is huge however on all of the background instruments and sounds (such as the drums in my example). I would have never guessed that the sound information for the lively drums was even in the 256 kbs download until I heard it through the D10. Then again, these improvements are characteristic of using dedicated headphone amps in general.

Please keep in mind that my comments about D10 are very significantly driven by the rolled op amp topkit that I purchased from Hiflight (around $60 if I remember right). Stock D10 still didn't synergize very well with IE8 while the topkit took it to a completely different level and balanced IE8 out well. Search HeadphoneAddict's comments on IE8 and D10 for more information. I found his comments about IE8s sound spectrum and how it requires an amp like rolled D10 or Amphora to excel to be absolutely nails. His amp review and other comments were the main reason I pulled the trigger on D10 and looking back, I couldn't agree more. By the way, thanks for sticking around Larry and sharing insight after having traded your IE8s.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid-Fi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I could really see how the IE8 would not be very worthwhile with all of the different and much higher end gear you have. They definitely are very picky about what gear they will sound good with and don't make much sense when they don't work well with the majority of amps you own. I do think IE8 is well suited for someone like me though who uses them as a main phone while getting started from having no gear and can stick to a DAC/amp that is well tailored for it in the meantime. I am really curious to try out W3 since it is the main other option in the same price range while clear upgrades like JH13 or UE11 cost so much more. I might try and find someone who would be interested in swapping them for a week or two to compare. That might be hard though as a newer member. Is the difference in sound quality between the DAC section of D10 and those of higher end DACs like DAC1 and Isabellina really that big? I have always heard that D10s DAC scales pretty well. I wonder if I would be better off investing in a better amp like Amphora first rather than saving and saving...and saving for Isabellina HPA. Either way, I need to get my Wadia 170i and custom tips first, which I should be able to do mid-November. It's gonna be hard to save patiently for the next level of upgrades.

I think the D10 DAC via optical is as good as other $300-400 DAC and scales well with better amps - people at the Feb 09 meet at my house could barely tell any difference between the D10 optical and the Pico USB DAC/amp (as a pre-amp) when feeding my Woo GES and stats.

So, with limited funds adding an Amphora to the D10 might make more sense. You will get an nice improvement in the sound of the IE8 right away. And like another mentioned, if your amp does remove too much bass you can use the bass knob to add it back in. And, the Amphora is still improved with a better DAC for later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting, I don't find the IE8's highs or mids at all recessed and that's coming straight from my ipod touch. You've heard the UM3X's, how do the highs of those compare to the IE8's?

I found my daughter's 2G Touch to be more forward and brighter than my iPhone 3GS and so the Touch is a better match for the IE8 than the UM3X, which are more forward and more sparkly sounding in general.

 

[midoo1990]

mmmm...intersting Sid-Fi,very helpful information,thank you.i dont have the funds to get the D10 and extra op amps because i am saving up for a portable amp and a nice set of CAN probably ESW9 or senns HD595.HeadphoneAddict,can you advice me to a set of CAN that have the same or bigger is even better soundstage and airness like the ie8?my budget is about 500-600$ for the CAN and a portable amp out of my ipod touch 2g.i am too lazy to open a new thread..

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid-Fi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Honeyboy. I'm glad my comments are intriguing you about D10. With the topkit, it is in IMHO far and away better than my IE8 alone out of headphone out. The more time I spend with it, the more and more I learn to discern and appreciate the improvements it brings. At first, the amp stage was the obvious and drastic improvement while using the DAC was more subtle. Over time though, I am learning to discern and appreciate the improvements from the DAC much more (much clearer, much more detail, more accurate location etc.) and they are easily equivalent to the amp benefits now. After a full month listening with D10 and topkit, whenever I listen to IE8 now out of the headphone out of my Ipod Classic or Cowon O2 (good headphone out) they sound flat out bad relatively speaking, even with lossless files. IE8 is my first audiophile grade headphone and D10 is my first dedicated DAC/amp so the benefits of each really took me some time to learn to hear and discern. As for your and Mido1990's question about lower bit rate files with D10, I actually find that my D10 significantly improves them and has the opposite effect of being unforgiving. My lower bit rate music are mostly Amazon 256 kbs mp3s and my experience is that my D10 polishes them up and makes them sound much fuller and smoother as opposed to ruthlessly exposing them. That being said, I haven't really experimented with 128 kbs files as I personally steer clear of those. For example, I have a few Govi albums that I really like that are 256 kbs Amazon downloads. I did some A-B comparisons of these with IE8 out of my iPod 5G headphone out and with it LOD > D10. Out of headphone out the drums sounded very faint, thin, and distant - kind of like a cheap metronome- but when listening through D10's amp the drums drastically changed to sound like someone hitting bongo drums in the same room. I couldn't believe it and was flabbergasted. My experience has been that the improvements are less drastic on the main vocals and primary instruments on since they are the focal point and seem to survive the most from compression (still nice improvements). The improvement is huge however on all of the background instruments and sounds (such as the drums in my example). I would have never guessed that the sound information for the lively drums was even in the 256 kbs download until I heard it through the D10. Then again, these improvements are characteristic of using dedicated headphone amps in general. Please keep in mind that my comments about D10 are very significantly driven by the rolled op amp topkit that I purchased from Hiflight (around $60 if I remember right). Stock D10 still didn't synergize very well with IE8 while the topkit took it to a completely different level and balanced IE8 out well. Search HeadphoneAddict's comments on IE8 and D10 for more information. I found his comments about IE8s sound spectrum and how it requires an amp like rolled D10 or Amphora to excel to be absolutely nails. His amp review and other comments were the main reason I pulled the trigger on D10 and looking back, I couldn't agree more. By the way, thanks for sticking around Larry and sharing insight after having traded your IE8s.

I glad to stick around where I can to help answer questions. I'm at the point where to make room for something new I have to sell something old. Otherwise I would have kept the IE8 for comparison purposes in my future reviews. It would be great to review a new amp and be able to comment on how it sounds with everything, but I can't afford to keep everything.

The D10 with the latest topkit so drastically improved my UE11Pro sound that it rendered my IE8 unnecessary since they didn't improve to the same degree. Still, the TLE2141-CA/EL8201 was the best opamp combo so far for the D10 with IE8.

I don't know why Amphora would tame the bass more with the IE8 than with the UE11Pro, while the D10 was better with UE11Pro and not the IE8. It's just a synergy thing (or lack thereof) I guess. Fortunately the D10 with topkit works well enough with everything else that I leave it in and don't feel like I am missing out on anything.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif mmmm...intersting Sid-Fi,very helpful information,thank you.i dont have the funds to get the D10 and extra op amps because i am saving up for a portable amp and a nice set of CAN probably ESW9 or senns HD595.HeadphoneAddict,can you advice me to a set of CAN that have the same or bigger is even better soundstage and airness like the ie8?my budget is about 500-600$ for the CAN and a portable amp out of my ipod touch 2g.i am too lazy to open a new thread..

How about just an ESW-10JPN with no amp? They sound nice with my daughter's 2G Touch. Soundstage is better than with an IEM because the pinna of the ear can interact with the sound, but to get a full size soundstage you'd need a full size can.

For that, a used HD600 with a Meier 3MOVE will fit your budget and give you a "near-desktop" experience out of a 2G Touch. You could get a $40 Punnisher low profile dock, or a killer $60 barqy "silver in silk" LOD to connect the amp to the Touch.

I've not heard the ESW9 but from the way their sound has been described here maybe the ESW9 plus a Vivid V1, Nuforce Icon Mobile or Meier Headsix might be a good combo. The Vivid V1 might be the best of those three amps for the ESW9 which I understand are warm with good bass and maybe a little dark. The V1 would also be my second choice portable amp for the HD600 if the Meier 3MOVE was too much.

Based on your taste for the IE8, the above cans would have a sennheiser-like sound and not be a huge departure like a Grado or Ultrasone.

 

[midoo1990]

wow,thank you very much larry for your assistance.i really love the ie8 sound sig. but i didnt mention the HD600/650 because i read that they need very powerful amp to be driven,but i will go with your advice and get the 600 and the amp you recommended.thanks again for your help.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow,thank you very much larry for your assistance.i really love the ie8 sound sig. but i didnt mention the HD600/650 because i read that they need very powerful amp to be driven,but i will go with your advice and get the 600 and the amp you recommended.thanks again for your help.

Yeah, the 3MOVE is the BEST portable HD600 amp out of the 15 or 16 portable amps that I have used with them - most of the portables lack the power to give them punch, control and volume. The V1 comes closer than many others, but it is not as refined and natural sounding as the 3MOVE. If the Touch/3MOVE/HD600 was my only rig I could still be happy with it on a desert island.

 

[cravenz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif I found my daughter's 2G Touch to be more forward and brighter than my iPhone 3GS and so the Touch is a better match for the IE8 than the UM3X, which are more forward and more sparkly sounding in general.

this might sound daft, but I found that when I hit the treble booster on the iPhone 3GS there was way more clarity with the IE8s. that being said, it drains way more battery, but I'd rather have the sound. At the same time though, rock cranked up doesn't work with the treble booster =)