[Nooborghini]

I think it would be powerful enough but if you want to maximize clarity and soundstage you might want to look into the combo I recommended which go for around $1450 on eBay together brand new, less used - they are SS btw. Will also need to pickup a cable or adapter with dual 3pin XLR on the end to use this amp optimally in balanced mode

HD800 you can probably handle but again without top notch electronics you might have a bad time on the treble . For those that can handle it though I think it's more impressive than hd800s on jazz / classical

Hd820 does not sound V shaped in the slightest. And if you are going to buy only one headphone for all types of music the hd820 is the better buy since its weaknesses are less pronounced than the hd800s' in their non-optimal music genres

IMO you'd be better off w/ the MF MX-HPA/MX-DAC + HD820 then using what you have now for electronics and getting both the HD820&HD800, i think youd have a better overall experience with the former than the latter.

I see, I see. I will consider purchasing the MF MX-HPA/MX-DAC combo, appreciate your suggestion.

I definitely just want to make sure as I just read what around on reddit/head-fi/reviews and if I see it often enough, it seems I take it in with a grain of salt.
Due to COVID and realistically, nobody around me will carry a pair of 820/800s on demo shelf to try and I'm not about to order one in and make them open one up or return one.
I know that it's not very likely that I will be able to find a HP that does it all but I was moreso curious about the soundstage as I would love to experience the "massive" soundstage as everyone has described.

I'll keep an eye on used the dac/amp combo & HD800 on ebay and mod them if needed.

 

[ruinedx]

I see, I see. I will consider purchasing the MF MX-HPA/MX-DAC combo, appreciate your suggestion.

I definitely just want to make sure as I just read what around on reddit/head-fi/reviews and if I see it often enough, it seems I take it in with a grain of salt.
Due to COVID and realistically, nobody around me will carry a pair of 820/800s on demo shelf to try and I'm not about to order one in and make them open one up or return one.
I know that it's not very likely that I will be able to find a HP that does it all but I was moreso curious about the soundstage as I would love to experience the "massive" soundstage as everyone has described.

I'll keep an eye on used the dac/amp combo & HD800 on ebay and mod them if needed.

If massive soundstage is your goal nothing comes close to the original unmodified, non-EQ'd hd800. Especially when paired with the right amp/dac. Again tho you may find the treble a bit prickly and bass lacking for electronic music .

The hd820 also has a huge soundstage, 3rd biggest I've heard, and can be described as a less extreme hd800 that plays better with more genres of music. But, there is no beating the initial wow factor of the original hd800 - I just found the hd820 was a better long term choice for ownership.

Keep in mind part of the reason for that hd800 soundstage IS the prickly treble - the area where it has a boost partially attributes to that air as our brain associates soundstage with those frequencies. So if you mod the hd800 or EQ it significantly you defeat the purpose of having it IMO, at that rate you might as well buy the hd820 and get the improved bass response and manufacturer-EQ'd treble.

When I had the hd800 I found the sonarworks EQ curve some tout to completely remove the magic of the sound signature and it just sounded like a thin husk of what it sounded like without eq. The HD820 i felt did a better job of removing the prickliness of hd800 and adding bass to hd800 better than any EQ could

 

[Nooborghini]

If massive soundstage is your goal nothing comes close to the original unmodified, non-EQ'd hd800. Especially when paired with the right amp/dac. Again tho you may find the treble a bit prickly and bass lacking for electronic music .

The hd820 also has a huge soundstage, 3rd biggest I've heard, and can be described as a less extreme hd800 that plays better with more genres of music. But, there is no beating the initial wow factor of the original hd800 - I just found the hd820 was a better long term choice for ownership.

Keep in mind part of the reason for that hd800 soundstage IS the prickly treble - the area where it has a boost partially attributes to that air as our brain associates soundstage with those frequencies. So if you mod the hd800 or EQ it significantly you defeat the purpose of having it IMO, at that rate you might as well buy the hd820 and get the improved bass response and manufacturer-EQ'd treble.

When I had the hd800 I found the sonarworks EQ curve some tout to completely remove the magic of the sound signature and it just sounded like a thin husk of what it sounded like without eq. The HD820 i felt did a better job of removing the prickliness of hd800 and adding bass to hd800 better than any EQ could

I see, this is very good information.
Would a tube amp be beneficial? I was originally gonna get a tube amp to see what it does to the HD800s if I needed the extra warmth. Would you recommend a tube amp if you were going to use one?

The extend of my tube experience is my LD MK2 w/ stock tubes and my CV 4010, was thinking of tube rolling later with some mullard 8161's but not sure if it'll make a difference as maybe investing into another tube amp may be better.

 

[ruinedx]

I see, this is very good information.
Would a tube amp be beneficial? I was originally gonna get a tube amp to see what it does to the HD800s if I needed the extra warmth. Would you recommend a tube amp if you were going to use one?

The extend of my tube experience is my LD MK2 w/ stock tubes and my CV 4010, was thinking of tube rolling later with some mullard 8161's but not sure if it'll make a difference as maybe investing into another tube amp may be better.

Tube vs solid state is all going to be personal preference. Not something u can ask someone on forum and get the answer for yourself.

But you said you are looking for super high clarity, microdetail, etc - tube is probably not the best way to achieve this.

On the other hand if you buy the wrong solid state amp it's going to be harsh and unlistenable. Solid state amps can vary widely in quality and tonal character believe it or not

I already went through this exercise with the hd800, hd820, and thousands of $ in different combinations of solid state gear . I will be honest and say I did not try thousands of dollars in tube amps as in general I like solid state better than tube - again personal preference.

The absolute best and most amazing combination I could find of treble, mids, bass, soundstage, etc was musical fidelity mx-hpa, mx-dac,.and hd820. While the hd800s is more refined in treble over the hd800, the hd820 is even more refined in that respect and has much of the bass the hd800s is lacking. Additionally the hd820 has more isolation which means you can listen at lower volume levels and have less fatigue - the hd820 bass response also allows you to crank it up less and hence less fatigue.

So if u r asking me , my (expensive) experimenting has found MX-HPA, MX-DAC, HD820 is the promise land of all the options available

 

[chillysalsa]

The 820 also really benefit from a good Tube OTL amp. The favourites like Crackhead, HPA Master, and Darkvoice are good options, of course each are a bit different. I have the Xduoo TA-03 and it is something magical with the HD800 with the right pre-tube, though it might be too much bass with the 820, as the TA-03 has unusually low output impedance for a OTL amp.

 

[Nooborghini]

Tube vs solid state is all going to be personal preference. Not something u can ask someone on forum and get the answer for yourself.

But you said you are looking for super high clarity, microdetail, etc - tube is probably not the best way to achieve this.

On the other hand if you buy the wrong solid state amp it's going to be harsh and unlistenable. Solid state amps can vary widely in quality and tonal character believe it or not

I already went through this exercise with the hd800, hd820, and thousands of $ in different combinations of solid state gear . I will be honest and say I did not try thousands of dollars in tube amps as in general I like solid state better than tube - again personal preference.

The absolute best and most amazing combination I could find of treble, mids, bass, soundstage, etc was musical fidelity mx-hpa, mx-dac,.and hd820. While the hd800s is more refined in treble over the hd800, the hd820 is even more refined in that respect and has much of the bass the hd800s is lacking. Additionally the hd820 has more isolation which means you can listen at lower volume levels and have less fatigue - the hd820 bass response also allows you to crank it up less and hence less fatigue.

So if u r asking me , my (expensive) experimenting has found MX-HPA, MX-DAC, HD820 is the promise land of all the options available

That is perfect, I figured it was the case. The 820 is on it's way!

The 820 also really benefit from a good Tube OTL amp. The favourites like Crackhead, HPA Master, and Darkvoice are good options, of course each are a bit different. I have the Xduoo TA-03 and it is something magical with the HD800 with the right pre-tube, though it might be too much bass with the 820, as the TA-03 has unusually low output impedance for a OTL amp.

That is what I am thinking as well, someone said to try it but I feel like it wouldn't be my cup of tea for active listening. I rarely use my tubes, it's only when I want to feel dirty.

 

[flailure]

I am really working at being unpopular today, and I want to apologies right out front, particularly to ruinedx, who I respect very highly, he has given a lot of good solid information since I have known him, and his opinions are decent as well. I am going to mildly disagree with him on one point however, and that is i dont believe that the hd820s only sound great on one particular amplifier (although his recommended amplifier in this case is very good). I had the hd800 back when it first came out, and it was a particularly difficult headphone to find an amp with a good synergy with, due to the unwanted high frequency resonances and the ultra wide soundstage (which could sound artificial not due to reproduction, but due to how your brain perceives it). I did not find this to be the case with the hd820, the soundstage was pulled back just the right amount where it didn't trigger my brain into hearing that artificial anomaly, and there are very few unwanted resonance peaks to have to deal with (you can tell that sennheiser put a lot of effort into engineering and dampening the sound to prevent those unwanted resonances). While I would not say that it does not benefit from a better quality amp (like the music fidelity or some others), I feel that you get most of the sound from a fairly broad range of amps and I would recommend focusing on purchasing the hd820 (and/or hd800(s)) first and once you have determined which you prefer (indeed maybe all of them) then trying out amps at that point.

 

[ruinedx]

The HD820 is much less picky than the HD800.

This buyer was going back and forth between the hd800, hd800s, and hd820 & the MX-HPA/mx-dac is a good choice for any/all of those three .

It's still the best all around solid state hpa/DAC combo under $2000 I have heard to date. Plus I'd say a wiser investment into hd820 + better electronics first over buying both the hd820 + hd800s + using entry level electronics if you are going to spend that much cash

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I wish I could afford a pair of 820s. I bought a NOS pair of 800s (not S) this year for 1200 euros. The 820 here is like 2400 euros. Just too much for me right now. Maybe I'll get lucky when they come out with the next thing.

 

[ruinedx]

I wish I could afford a pair of 820s. I bought a NOS pair of 800s (not S) this year for 1200 euros. The 820 here is like 2400 euros. Just too much for me right now. Maybe I'll get lucky when they come out with the next thing.

Not sure the next thing will be quite as legendary with the departure of Axel Grell

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Not sure the next thing will be quite as legendary with the departure of Axel Grell

Most of the time upgrades aren't. But not many people outside headfi realize it. So there's still a chance

 

[ruinedx]

Not related but related, I read a lot of posts saying the DT1770s are V shaped. They're not. There are a lot of memes and they affect our hobby also. Once somebody writes that this or that amp is warm or this or that pair of headphones is V shaped people who have never heard the equipment start repeating what they read as if it were fact. I even had one or two guys bash me violently when I made a comment about a piece of equipment I have which was contrary to their beliefs which came from reading a few posts. I asked if they had the device and they said no, it doesn't matter, everybody says you're wrong. I said ok for you, I actually have the gear and use it but if you never listened to it it's bogus to claim you can characterize the sound as if you have some kind of authoritative position.

Everybody hears differently and the whole chain of your gear and ears and brain has an influence. In the end it's very personal but there are still some objective standards.You probably have to hear a lot of gear to have a frame of reference.

Yeah I mean I think there are a lot of factors at play:
1) General group herd mentality - "everyone says the same thing, so I have to say the same thing in order to be liked and fit in"
2) Audiophile herd mentality - "audiophile tropes say neutral/flat = audiophile, therefore if something is not neutral/flat it must be bad, and if I say otherwise people will think I'm not an audiophile or not smart"
3) Lack of insight regarding how we hear sound naturally (reflected/diffuse sound) vs. how a headphone reproduces sound (direct)
4) Misunderstanding that a frequency response curve completely fails to measure all the aspects of sound that make up natural hearing for factor #3
5) Misattribution of traditional models (i.e. Harman curve) as being the end-all-be-all of best possible way of achieving factor #3 via a headphone, rather than considering it could be improved upon - and further relies on factor #4 which is inherently flawed.
6) Argument by authority, i.e. reviewer X said Y, thus Y must be true - and argument by authority is always a poor logical approach
7) In reality, for most people its just too expensive to buy and try everything, so people parrot what other people say without trying it for themselves
8) "What is true for me is true for everyone," meaning the lack of insight that people may have different priorities for their listening goals/enjoyment
9) If you already own a HD800/HD800S its more financially & psychologically practical to convince yourself the HD820 isn't better / better enough than the HD800/HD800S rather than spending another $2000+
10) If you've selected colored components to warm up the treble and beef up the bass on the HD800, using those same components on the HD820 may result in less than ideal sound as the HD820 does not need these compensations.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Looking at your list it strikes me that it's kind of a dim view of sheeple and it's unfortunately very accurate.

 

[Nooborghini]

Looking at your list it strikes me that it's kind of a dim view of sheeple and it's unfortunately very accurate.

This is my conclusion as well based on my own research and trial and error'ing.
This applies to my field of work as I work in ISP/telecommunications. It is definitely frustrating to have the masses give word when there is no merit but internet as to intermittency for internet such as Wireless connectivity, is subjective-moreso to the person's environment.

This is why I really appreciated ruinedx's response and clarity on what is being brought to the table. It reinforced my original points I had for the HD820 and cleared the fluff as he has experience with both, if not all 3 of the headphones in question.

EDIT:
I had a question, anyone use any Dekoni pads with the HD820? I heard it ruins the sound for the HD800s.
I was thinking the Hybrid Elites as I feel the leather may get too warm for me.

 

[ruinedx]

This is my conclusion as well based on my own research and trial and error'ing.
This applies to my field of work as I work in ISP/telecommunications. It is definitely frustrating to have the masses give word when there is no merit but internet as to intermittency for internet such as Wireless connectivity, is subjective-moreso to the person's environment.

This is why I really appreciated ruinedx's response and clarity on what is being brought to the table. It reinforced my original points I had for the HD820 and cleared the fluff as he has experience with both, if not all 3 of the headphones in question.

EDIT:
I had a question, anyone use any Dekoni pads with the HD820? I heard it ruins the sound for the HD800s.
I was thinking the Hybrid Elites as I feel the leather may get too warm for me.

Try the stock pads before you get anything else IMO. I found them to be very good; sennheiser tuned the sound with the stock pads, not Dekoni. Again I'd put the cash towards better electronics.

btw, if you decide to give the MX-HPA / MX-DAC a shot FYI they are out of production and you may want to act fast if you want "new" condition. They are actually the last 100% Musical Fidelity product of this type made before Musical Fidelity sold the company to Pro-Ject. They are on clearance now - MX-HPA is $599-$699, MX-DAC $849. The HPA goes for less because the dual-XLR is now an unpopular connector, but easily can get a dual 3-pin XLR > 4pin XLR adapter for use with CH800S, or alternatively a company like Moon Audio can make you a dual 3-pin XLR cable that is compatible with the HD820. Musical Fidelity now has a new DAC product out but its much larger and IMO not as attractive a package as the MX-DAC, and its built-in HPA is not balanced like the MX-HPA; so in this case the older model is superior to the newer one IMO.