[magiccabbage]

   
The true Litmus test will be if Peter decides to keep them. Methinks think he will

 
I'm surprised at the differences in individual graph measurements. Sennheiser are always consistent from model to model.

he bought them - he is hardly gonna give them back after buying them. 

 

[Nicklikesmusic]

  Continuing onto some classical piano...
 
I spent all day yesterday listening to only the HD800 S to reprogram my ears a little before moving to critical comps between classic HD800 and youngster. 
 
Unlike rock, rap and electronica, i think when it comes to solo piano I have a better idea of what sounds natural. Electronic instruments can be manipulated all kinds of ways. But I live with a steinway baby grand. So although classical music recordings still sometimes have lots of engineering wizardy going on, the reference is a live piano in a room. 
 
Igor Levit's recent release in Hi-Res, Bach, Bethoven and Rzewski is not only amazing music but very well recorded. With this music I find the comparison a little more difficult. The classic gives a more lit up presentation, which makes certain nuances of the attack of hammer on the string really much easier to discern. That is really cool. There is an open airiness to the presentation with HD800 that is seductive. It also seems just a hair's breath short of completely realistic. It comes closer to right than any headphone I have heard except maybe the Stax 009 for solo piano. But when I ab'ed stax and HD800 side by side a year or so ago, they were really slight differences of the same general idea. But both seemed just a teeny tiny bit tilted up which gave this really compelling you can hear every nuance. Ok so how does the youngster sound?
 
The S sounds warmer, a little richer, it goes a little deeper when he hammers away on the left end of the ivories. The decay seems more like it sounds when I sit on the couch and someone plays the piano in the living room about 2 meters (6 feet) away. It is also little less clear and a little less airy than the classic. I actually ran over to the piano and started banging on it and then listened again to the recording. Its not really the same piano and a different room etc. Buts it is always good to hear what the real thing sounds like. On richness, I gives to the S. On detail, I gives to the classic. On which is more natural? I thinks I gots to say the S. But some will definitely like the classic better here. It is the more fun headphone on Igor Levit's recent recording of Beethoven's diabelli variations. Did I just say the classic is the more fun headphone? No one ever says the HD800 is the more fun headphone on head-fi. But here I am saying it, on head-fi, in this particular case. On hip hop, funness is totally with the youngster, Does anyone who listens to classical piano care about funness? Maybe in this case. I dunno we are splitting hairs anyway, but that is a big part of the funness here at head-fi: Making a big deal out of small diffs. 
 
Hope this helps...

Thanks Shabta for your impressions, they are very valuable. I noticed that your HD800 only goes to 3dB in the low end compared to many new HD800 which go to 5dB just like the S model. Are you able to EQ up to 5dB your HD800 in the low end and then post your impressions using piano music? This would be really beneficial for me and other owners of newer HD800 which have the boosted bottom end. I was once told that if you want to test audio equipment then use the piano as the sound is a very complex waveform and hard to get right. If you can't boost then thanks again for your interesting read

 

[phonomat]

he bought them - he is hardly gonna give them back after buying them. 

Well, it's not totally unheard-of that a head-fi'er would turn his back on a purchase. In fact, this being head-fi, the question is rather WHEN the change/upgrade will occur.

 

[Beagle]

  he bought them - he is hardly gonna give them back after buying them. 

 
Hate to enlighten you, but he could return them if the dealer has a 30 day return policy. Or he could sell them. I'm sure he'd get what he paid for them.

 

[Mentis]

Can any of the hd800s owners take a closeup picture of the resonance? The one from Axel isn't clear enough. Thx

 

[Jawed]

But I have heard it on less well recorded stuff or some times when the pianist is hammering on the tinkly, right end of the piano keys.

What happens if you hammer the tinkly end of your own




















piano?

Sorry couldn't resist, but serious question. Do you hear that ringing on your own piano?

 

[iDesign]

Do you hear that ringing on your own piano?

 
The resonance I was referring to is an inherent issue with the HD 800. It not something that is caused by a piano, room acoustics, part the recording etc. Whether or not if shabta hears any type of resonance with his piano or in his room is totally irrelevant. It has been my experience that the ringing phenomenon is most pronounced with the piano but I only listen to classical music. I'm sure I could spot it with other music genres and instruments. 

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
Sennheiser's curves never show a significant peak because they do not depict the absolute frequency response as recorded by whatever measurement system they use; rather, this curve shows the deviation from a defined target, and thus it looks "flat". As there is no indication what the defined target actually is, these graphs are useful only in comparing HD800s to each other.
 
Look at any of the raw measurements out there - innerfidelity, goldenears, headroom, etc, - and you will see an obvious elevated response from the upper mid-range through the mid-treble, complete with 6kHz peak.
 
 
I think you should be cautious of allowing a measurement, especially a particular category of measurement like square wave, significantly inform a purchasing decision. The "best" graph isn't necessarily going to correspond to the best sound - or the sound you like the best.

 
My original HD800 headphones did show a peak in this region (a very noticeable one actually). If you swing over to the HD800 graph thread you'll see that there too. Comparing those plots to the new ones shows that this area has been "fixed" so to speak largely by the changes Sennheiser made. And after throwing some of my most "bright" recordings at the HD800S, I can confirm that I no longer need to avoid them with this headphone.
 

  so a hd800 lover will love the hd800S awesome nice to hear 
 
also i am noob so wanted to ask the sound that hurts your ear when listening at high volumes with certain tracks with the stock hd800 is that the 6k peak ?

 
The original HD800 headphones made me select my music carefully for this reason...not so with the HD800S.

 

[MacedonianHero]

  Your original maybe something like this 

 

 
Bingo...that's the one!
 

   
The true Litmus test will be if Peter decides to keep them. Methinks think he will

 
I'm surprised at the differences in individual graph measurements. Sennheiser are always consistent from model to model.

I am keeping them Dave...no doubt about it! 

 

[shabta]

What happens if you hammer the tinkly end of your own




















piano?

Sorry couldn't resist, but serious question. Do you hear that ringing on your own piano?

LOL
 
Actually while of course if I bang (yikes!) it it ca be a little sharp too, but in a more natural sounding less piercing sort of way compared to the HD800. 

 

[Saad Abdul Aziz]

   
Bingo...that's the one!
 
I am keeping them Dave...no doubt about it! 

so when is your review coming for them
 
and can i sum up your thoughts abit and you correct me if there wrong or add to it
 
 
bass abit more extended and better
treble peak fixed 
treble more extended
compatible with way more music
sound stage unaffected
 
 
sound about right this sounds  perfect for me as i already liked the hd800 the best this will put it over the edge for me

 

[nprathap]

This is what Sennhiser says about the HD 800 and HD 800 S comparison. 
 


You can find the obvious change:

 
HD 800:

14 - 44,100 Hz (-3 dB) 6 - 51,000 Hz (-10 dB)

HD 800 S:
10 - 44,100 Hz (-3 dB) 4 - 51,000 Hz (-10 dB) 
 
 

 

[lukeap69]

My HD800 6kHz peak seems closer to the HD800S than the HD800 in the graph above? My lower end is also like the HD800S?

 

[phonomat]

  This is what Sennhiser says about the HD 800 and HD 800 S comparison. 
 


You can find the obvious change:

 
HD 800:

14 - 44,100 Hz (-3 dB) 6 - 51,000 Hz (-10 dB)

HD 800 S:
10 - 44,100 Hz (-3 dB) 4 - 51,000 Hz (-10 dB) 
 
 

 
This confuses me, as I read it as saying that there are changes of 10dB to be found aynwhere, but that couldn't be, right? Could you please elaborate a little on the last paragraph? Sorry for the stupid question, but all that technical stuff is terra incognita to me.
Honestly, looking at these graphs the differences always seem very subtle to me, even the reduction of the infamous 6kHz peak by, what, 3 dB, does not seem very significant. How much is 3 dB even? Assuming I usually listen to music at something like 80 to 100 db, 3dB seems almost negligible. But perhaps I'm not reading these things right. Okay, I'm admittedly a total cretin when it comes to numbers and graphs, but I'm willing to learn.

 

[plakat]

   
This confuses me, as I read it as saying that there are changes of 10dB to be found aynwhere, but that couldn't be, right? Could you please elaborate a little on the last paragraph? Sorry for the stupid question, but all that technical stuff is terra incognita to me.
Honestly, looking at these graphs the differences always seem very subtle to me, even the reduction of the infamous 6kHz peak by, what, 3 dB, does not seem very significant. How much is 3 dB even? Assuming I usually listen to music at something like 80 to 100 db, 3dB seems almost negligible. But perhaps I'm not reading these things right. Okay, I'm admittedly a total cretin when it comes to numbers and graphs, but I'm willing to learn.

Those frequency ranges are normally given for either -3dB or -10dB vs. a reference point (which is often 1kHz): the end points are where the level drops to -3dB (or -10dB) when compared to this reference point. Which in case of the HD800S means that its sound pressure level at 10Hz is 3dB lower than the level at 1kHz (I suppose Sennheiser uses 1kHz as their reference point, I did not check their exact method though). Same for the -10dB range, which is a bit wider as the level does not drop to 0 at once.