[edstrelow]

I was impressed by Headrooms balanced setup of the HD800 at CANJAM and thought it sounded surprisingly like the 007 and BHSE. I recall that it may have had the advantage of a formidable looking Krell player or transport. I don't recall what was feeding the BHSE.

However there remains the issue of a residual graininess to this, and other dynamics I have heard. Certainly the balanced HD800 had it down lower than most dyamics I had heard but even lower level stats have the edge in that type of clarity. I just don't see how the physics of transducers will ever allow the best dynamic to best the best stat. The stats have drivers that are both large so as to reduce IM distortion and light to give the transient attack. Certainly, the execution of either type can vary so that a good dynamic can best a bad stat and cheap dynamics can often outperfrom stats in dynamics and bass, but not that often and not by much. And when they do they require such expensive amps that they are pushed up into the upper "statosphere" of price.

My bottom line is that I don't see myself putting the money up for an HD800 balanced rig. I would however, funds being available, go for the Blue Hawaii to run my 007A and Sigma/404.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif The HD800 is really maturing with 200 hours on them - that "quarter inch on the thin/sharp side" is gone and the HD800/WA6 are now closer to my burned-in O2 Mk1/GES, but with better bass impact. I'm not sure I'll need to keep my Stax rig once I re-cable the HD800 and my Eddie Current ZDT arrives...

Hey Larry, have you ever tried your O2 out of a 007t?

I know Stax amps suffer from a stigma when used with the O2 around here, but I still much prefer what I heard with the O2/007t pairing than O2 with 717 or KGSS.

I'm wondering if the GES is actually an improvement over the 007t from a synergy perspective. Because the O2 certainly didn't lack bass in that combo to me, in fact I'd call it PS-1 quality bass.

 

[Lil' Knight]

O2/007t lacks a lot of dynamic and bass is on the light side, kind of sleepy when comparing with O2/717. I'm curious how the 717 stands against the KGSS.

 

[mikeymad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure I'll need to keep my Stax rig once I re-cable the HD800 and my Eddie Current ZDT arrives...

800+EC should be a nice match....

Cheers,

 

[Brighten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was impressed by Headrooms balanced setup of the HD800 at CANJAM and thought it sounded surprisingly like the 007 and BHSE. I recall that it may have had the advantage of a formidable looking Krell player or transport. I don't recall what was feeding the BHSE. However there remains the issue of a residual graininess to this, and other dynamics I have heard. Certainly the balanced HD800 had it down lower than most dyamics I had heard but even lower level stats have the edge in that type of clarity. I just don't see how the physics of transducers will ever allow the best dynamic to best the best stat. The stats have drivers that are both large so as to reduce IM distortion and light to give the transient attack. Certainly, the execution of either type can vary so that a good dynamic can best a bad stat and cheap dynamics can often outperfrom stats in dynamics and bass, but not that often and not by much. And when they do they require such expensive amps that they are pushed up into the upper "statosphere" of price. My bottom line is that I don't see myself putting the money up for an HD800 balanced rig. I would however, funds being available, go for the Blue Hawaii to run my 007A and Sigma/404.

If it was Justin's rig it was a Sony XA-5400ES.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey Larry, have you ever tried your O2 out of a 007t? I know Stax amps suffer from a stigma when used with the O2 around here, but I still much prefer what I heard with the O2/007t pairing than O2 with 717 or KGSS. I'm wondering if the GES is actually an improvement over the 007t from a synergy perspective. Because the O2 certainly didn't lack bass in that combo to me, in fact I'd call it PS-1 quality bass.

No. For Stax amps I have only heard the O2 on Stax SRM-T1 at the Feb 09 Colorado meet, and on the SRM-1 Mk2 Pro at the Nov 08 colorado meet. The T1 was adequate but not remarkable with O2 (while better with other stats), and the SRM-1 lacked volume and drive to even reach normal listening levels.

When used with ESP950, HE60, Lambdas, etc., the SRM-T1 was closest to the GES prototype with 12BZ7 tubes (3 yr old last summer), in terms of power and sound signature And with HE60 the T1 had more bass quantity than the GES prototype, but maybe night quite as tight as the GES. So while fairly equivalent with lesser stats, with the O2 Mk1 and Mk2 I am not convinced the T1 was nearly as good as the GES.

My maxed GES has the same power as the prototype (side by side for a few days) but better micro-detail and transparency, regardless of whether it was with the stock 12BZ7 tubes or the superior Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7 or 60's GE "Wurlitzer" 12AX7. But the maxed GES also seems to respond better to a hot source input.

If I could get another 3-4 dB of dynamic range out of the GES with the Stax O2 I would be happier, but up to the limits of the power it is very nice and sounds similar to the HD800 on my maxed WA6 but with less bass impact - which is still less than the impact that the KGBH SE had at CanJam with the O2.

 

[greggf]

HeadphoneAddict,

Anything you can say about your thought process re: ordering a ZDT for the HD800?

We had a ZD and liked it. If the 800 is preferable to the O2, another ZD or else the ZDT are prime suspects.

I wonder if the difference we're hearing between the 800 and the Stax is indeed "residual grain," albeit minute, in the dynamic?

That "grain" can be both pleasant - a kind of bite, a kind of life - that makes the 800 more exciting than the O2. Or else, depending upon the recording, it can tip things in favor of the Stax.

Like tubes vs. ss, things may be getting closer and closer in the best cans in each category, dynamic vs. stat, but the differences still remain, and, in a sense, remain ever more difficult to choose between.

 

[greggf]

Also, while it's way too early to tell, and my equipment isn't definitive, it seems as if the O2 is more musical. It presents things more in an organic whole; it's more holistic than the HD800.

I say this even as I can hear how, when you take individual elements of reproduction, the HD800 probably does better. It's like a "Car & Driver" test where the Audi bests the BMW in acceleration, braking, interior space, gas mileage - and then the BMW "wins" the overall test on aura.

Very annoying.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif HeadphoneAddict, Anything you can say about your thought process re: ordering a ZDT for the HD800? We had a ZD and liked it. If the 800 is preferable to the O2, another ZD or else the ZDT are prime suspects. I wonder if the difference we're hearing between the 800 and the Stax is indeed "residual grain," albeit minute, in the dynamic? That "grain" can be both pleasant - a kind of bite, a kind of life - that makes the 800 more exciting than the O2. Or else, depending upon the recording, it can tip things in favor of the Stax. Like tubes vs. ss, things may be getting closer and closer in the best cans in each category, dynamic vs. stat, but the differences still remain, and, in a sense, remain ever more difficult to choose between.

I wanted a nice speaker amp for my Stax SRD-7 Pro and SRD-7 Mk2, and for my K1000. I really liked Blutarsky's Zana Deux and it's the only amp I heard up till that time that made the HD650 sound nice, so to get a SET transformer coupled balanced 4-pin output for my HD600/D2000/K1000/HD800 and also be able to drive my Stats and K1000 it seemed like the perfect combo for my bedroom.

Then my WA6 would move out to the living room to join my GES, for dynamics and stats out there too.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif HeadphoneAddict, Anything you can say about your thought process re: ordering a ZDT for the HD800? We had a ZD and liked it. If the 800 is preferable to the O2, another ZD or else the ZDT are prime suspects. I wonder if the difference we're hearing between the 800 and the Stax is indeed "residual grain," albeit minute, in the dynamic? That "grain" can be both pleasant - a kind of bite, a kind of life - that makes the 800 more exciting than the O2. Or else, depending upon the recording, it can tip things in favor of the Stax. Like tubes vs. ss, things may be getting closer and closer in the best cans in each category, dynamic vs. stat, but the differences still remain, and, in a sense, remain ever more difficult to choose between.

I call the difference between stats and dynamics "graininess" although this is hardly a scientific description and others might chose different terms, or chose to dispute my characterization in its entirety. Most of our discussions of sound use visual analogies.

 

[gilency]

I listen to the balanced HD800 from HeadRoom and was underwhelmed when compared with the wonderful Stax systems I got to try at CanJam. I think I have Stax poisoning, and it is very expensive to cure.....

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeymad /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 800's do sound nice, but they failed for me in one important aspect. Impact. When there is an orchestra hit or a drum hit. The h800 sounded good (made the right sound), but did not have the impact that the L3000's or the O2's have for the same passage. Even when turned up past the others. Once I realized this. I put the Hd800's aside and didn't have to worry about them anymore. Maybe it is the ring driver... I don't know.

I think you listened to my pair, and they hadn't been burned in for more than 8 hours at that point.

Try them again balanced and you'll probably like them quite a bit more. They definitely have impact now.

 

[mopps]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Knight /img/forum/go_quote.gif O2/007t lacks a lot of dynamic and bass is on the light side, kind of sleepy when comparing with O2/717. I'm curious how the 717 stands against the KGSS.

Maybe the 007. But the thread deals IIRC solely (beside the HD 800

) with the 007II(A) not the 007. My 007A on both the 007tA and the TransistorAmp does not lack bass at all. Quite the contrary, bass is way too thick on both and moreover way too wishy-washy (or rather sleepy and lacks dynamic, right you are) on the 007tA. The overemphasis in bass (too bad only the mid-bass, but excused due to the open-back type

) is unfortunately the nature of the 007A. Can't imagine that the 007 is really 'bass-light' in contrast...

 

[Lil' Knight]

I haven't tried the 007A so can't comment on the bass. To me, the bass of the 007 is just enough to enjoy. I won't say it "bass-light" but it has lesser bass than other dynamic phones, like my favorite HD600's. The 717 brings out a lot more dynamic, speed for the 007. After experiencing the 007t, I don't know if I'd ever want to try tube amp with the 007 again.

 

[kelvinz]

I'm really loving the O2+717 combo