[GuyDebord]

For me the O2's are the only HP's that have most approached the musicality, tone and decay of a grand piano as well as the timbre and timing of a string instrument, their soundstage is grand but intimate. On the other hand, I never liked the hd800 when I had them, they have an overblown soundstage and makes classical instruments sound "hi-fi unnatural" and sterile, I would go unquestionably for the O2's.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyDebord /img/forum/go_quote.gif Still no extended comparison????? who will be the first? Quote: Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif HD800 on maxed Woo WA6 PDPSU and Sophia 274B rectifier - more up front and forward, mids a little more rich and vibrant, brighter, but with a little more bass impact. Sound best turned up louder. SR-007 (O2 Mk1) on maxed Woo GES with early 60's GE "Wurlitzer" 12AX7 - more laid back and deeper soundstage, mids a little more recessed, more mellow and smooth, a little less bass impact and extension. Sound best at low to medium volume levels. Both are detailed and fast with good natural timbre and tone.

HD800 on EC ZDT with Sylvania gold pin 5751 - up front and slightly forward with vast wide and spacious soundstage that's bigger than on WA6 or with O2, mids rich and vibrant, treble brighter than O2, with a little less bass impact than O2 on WES (but more than O2 on GES). Sound best turned up to medium or louder volumes. A little richer and less bright/less detailed with GE grey plate 5751 which responds well to Warren Audio cable upgrade. Stock cable acceptable with Sylvania 5751.

SR-007 (O2 Mk1) on Woo WES with Shuguang Treasures 6CA7 - more laid back and refined, less deep or wide soundstage than HD800 but improved over GES, mids a little warmer, improved bass impact now over HD800 and similar extension, highs more mellow or smooth but a little darker requiring a brighter DAC. Sound best at low to medium volume levels, strong performance at louder volumes without clipping unlike GES, but highs don't keep up with bass as volume goes up.

Both are detailed and fast with good natural timbre and tone.

 

[pearljam5000]

Thanks HeadphoneAddict.
it puzzles me how some people see the HD800 as just a minor upgrade of the HD650 or HD600,and some,like you, feel they are on the level of the O2.
i guess everyone has his own taste.

 

[antonyfirst]

I think the HD800 have much more potential than the HD580/600/650. I have heard all (apart from the HD600). The HD800 aren't to be considered a "logical step up", since the sound signature is very different. They do have many desirable features (the awesomely textured bass, huge soundstage, impressive dynamics) but their flaws (sibilance, raspiness, vocals recession) are also more apparent than those in HD6xx, thus making careful system matching necessary.

Edit: I also think that, although both being top tiers, the Omega 2 and the HD800 are almost the opposite in their sound reproduction approach.
I would call the O2 a great all arounder with the right system, while the HD800 is much more coloured.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks HeadphoneAddict. it puzzles me how some people see the HD800 as just a minor upgrade of the HD650 or HD600,and some,like you, feel they are on the level of the O2. i guess everyone has his own taste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the HD800 have much more potential than the HD580/600/650. I have heard all (apart from the HD600). The HD800 aren't to be considered a "logical step up", since the sound signature is very different. They do have many desirable features (the awesomely textured bass, huge soundstage, impressive dynamics) but their flaws (sibilance, raspiness, vocals recession) are also more apparent than those in HD6xx, thus making careful system matching necessary. Edit: I also think that, although both being top tiers, the Omega 2 and the HD800 are almost the opposite in their sound reproduction approach. I would call the O2 a great all arounder with the right system, while the HD800 is much more coloured.

Yes, they are different and even using them with two of the best amps available for dynamic or electrostatic headphones doesn't bring them closer together, just better on their own merits.

The thing I can't seem to get over is the wonderful soundstage of the HD800 vs that of the O2 and other phones. Only my HE60 and K1000 come close to that, but they're not perfect either. If I could have that soundstage on the O2 with a little more treble presence, they would be my favorite. If the HD800 had the refinement, warmth and bass of the O2 (on WES) they would be my favorite. My HE60 on the WES seem to fit between the two and while less refined than the O2 they have better soundstage with just as good bass, but not as warm mids. The Jade could stand to be less forward with a deeper soundstage. The K1000 could use better bass and treble extension and more detail (my SAC KH1000 amp is better with them than ZDT or balanced EHHA). And so on and so on...

I still can't say I have heard the perfect headphone yet (even the R10 seemed a little boomy and closed at times with some music and amps), but what I own should keep me perfectly happy. I might look at a Beyer T1 or other phones before the end of the year, but it's not urgent anymore.

 

[Asr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif SR-007 (O2 Mk1) on Woo WES with Shuguang Treasures 6CA7 - more laid back and refined, less deep or wide soundstage than HD800 but improved over GES, mids a little warmer, improved bass impact now over HD800 and similar extension, highs more mellow or smooth but a little darker requiring a brighter DAC. Sound best at low to medium volume levels, strong performance at louder volumes without clipping unlike GES, but highs don't keep up with bass as volume goes up.

My experience with the OII differs from yours in that I find it sounds better louder (as opposed to low-medium volume) and that there are no discrepancies between the treble & bass at any volume even when very loud. Of course I'm using the HeadAmp BHSE as the amp, and my source also plays into the sound. I might suggest that your experience might be being limited by either the amp and source, or both. I honestly can find very little to complain about with respect to my OII setup.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr /img/forum/go_quote.gif My experience with the OII differs from yours in that I find it sounds better louder (as opposed to low-medium volume) and that there are no discrepancies between the treble & bass at any volume even when very loud. Of course I'm using the HeadAmp BHSE as the amp, and my source also plays into the sound. I might suggest that your experience might be being limited by either the amp and source, or both. I honestly can find very little to complain about with respect to my OII setup.

I'm still planning a new source sometime in 2010, as well as El_Doug's recommendation for Raytheon 6C8G's for gain tube (with adapter).

At RMAF I did find your BHSE to have less mids and more treble with O2 Mk1 than the WES, but this same WES had better treble with Woo's source than with my Apogee mini-DAC (I bought the demo WES used at RMAF). I believe I liked the WES's mids better, although at RMAF it made the mids too forward with the demo O2 Mk2 for my tastes (needed earpad spring mod).

But for now I am using the HE60 more than the O2, because they now have enough bass, big soundstage, and don't sound dark. The problem in my rig is that at louder volumes the O2's bass over-rides the treble, while the HE60's treble over-rides the bass at high volumes. I suppose I can stand the O2 at high volumes more than I can the HE60, but in my rig both are best and more balanced sounding at medium levels and not at very loud levels.

The improvements that I got with the WES over my old GES include (but not limited to) bigger soundstage with better separation, stronger bass, and more power so that it never clips at the volumes I listen. But the frequency response and tone are very similar to the GES. I know I was able to brighten up the GES with the PS Audio DAC and make the O2 sound better on that amp, but the PS Audio DAC wont fit in my WES rack till I move some things around. And, it's really not an upgrade over the Apogee otherwise. I really liked Sherwood's ECD-1 DAC and was thinking about one of those (if I can get over the looks).

I guess it's not surprising that the Apogee DAC that is just right for ZDT/HD800 is slightly darker with O2/WES and occasionally bright with HE60. Maybe "one DAC to rule them all" might not be a realistic expectation.

 

[Deadneddz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing I can't seem to get over is the wonderful soundstage of the HD800 vs that of the O2 and other phones.

Can you further explain this? I've had little time with the HD800 compared with actual owners. What exactly are the qualities that make it so much more appealing to you than the other phones?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadneddz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you further explain this? I've had little time with the HD800 compared with actual owners. What exactly are the qualities that make it so much more appealing to you than the other phones?

This is very difficult to describe soundstage with headphones, because no headphone can do soundstage as well as speakers (especially my Polk SDA CRS). I can usually do a decent job using my imagination to move a headphone's head-stage outside of my head and into what resembles a soundstage. But (1) how far outside of my head I can get the instruments or vocals, or (2) how big the venue for the performance appears to be, varies depending on the phones, recording and gear.

There are cues in a proper recording that not only tell us how far apart the musicians are, but also how far away the walls or boundaries are, and how live or dead those boundaries are to reflections. We all probably agree that the better the micro-detail the more cues you have for ambience, air and space. And, the more your HRTF can be involved, the better the imaging will be.

With the HD800 the instruments may not get a lot farther out of my head than with other headphones (#1 above), but it just seems like the walls of the room that I am sitting in disappear, and while the instruments and vocals may take their place in my head or a little outside of my head, the ambience and air and space surrounds me and is as wide open as the venue where the recording took place (#2 above). Listening to a live performance sounds more like I am in the nightclub and not like I am in a studio or in my basement family room, and the size of the venue is not as limited by the headphone as it is by the recording or the gear. I can still tell I am listening to a live performance with other headphones, but I get less of that feeling that the room that I am in is the same size.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[AC1]

I love how after the first gen O2s are discontinued, they are now some super musical, uncolored headphone benchmark. What a joke.

They are as colored as any headphone since they have a distinct sound signature. They pretty much always sound thick/dark since there is too much low mid richness with curtailed treble energy. Sure you can system match all you want and go with a system that is super focused/leaner etc to help it, but O2s always sound like O2s to me on any number of systems/amps. While the HD800s for sure have their own signature, they have been more flexible than the O2 or other Stax I've owned.

 

[greggf]

AC1,

I'm using the O2Mk.II, which should be considered even "darker" than the I, and I'm using it with a "dark" Marantz CDP and a "dark" current-model tube standard Stax amp, and I've had the HD800 across different amps,

and my experience is the direct opposite of yours - it's the O2 that is the ultimate "flexible" can, no matter what I play.

I think it's just personal choice, or mood (if you have many different headphones/systems), or perhaps even genetics or hearing??

 

[Audio-Omega]

If some headphones (different models and brands) are considered as neutral sounding, would they sound the same through the same setup ?

 

[spritzer]

To me a neutral transducer imparts as little of its own character on the output as is possible and can thus better track what's going on with the music. Then you have monitor neutrality which is designed to give a better insight into the mix. Often this means less bass impact to hear how the bass track is built up which is naturally a form of coloration.

Amps should not be discarded from the equation as some phones like the SR-007 are very hard to drive while others need a certain aspect of the amps design to work in their favor to give best results. One must also not forget just how badly some of the amps out there are designed and built and the country of origin or price tag has nothing to do with that. Just the incompetence of the builder/designer.

 

[Elephas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr /img/forum/go_quote.gif My experience with the OII differs from yours in that I find it sounds better louder (as opposed to low-medium volume) and that there are no discrepancies between the treble & bass at any volume even when very loud. Of course I'm using the HeadAmp BHSE as the amp, and my source also plays into the sound. I might suggest that your experience might be being limited by either the amp and source, or both. I honestly can find very little to complain about with respect to my OII setup.

I agree with this, both the O2mk1 or O2mk2 sound better at relatively higher volume than most other headphones. I think the relative amount of treble energy may play a part.

Yep, it's just too obvious that HeadphoneAddict needs a better electrostatic amp and source.

 

[Deadneddz]

HPA, thank you for your impressions. I've come to notice differences when I listen to the O2. Its a different experience than with any other headphones i've owned/own, and this presentation could appeal or detract from peoples perspectives. It might be the smaller headstage, minimal distortion, equilization technique or a combination of elements, but I see deeper into the recordings especially regarding soundstage and even songs within albums on the O2. As far as the out of head images, it seems to me that this is only conceived by lengthening the distance between the driver and ears, speakers of course having a signficant distance between the source point and the listener. But when listening to the soundscape within the recording, the O2 is the only phone i've heard that gives me the best look into the nuances within the recording rather than between me and the transducer. I'd be curious if the HD800 resolves differences in the actual recording itself rather than not being able to resolve those differences that well and just having a disporportionately large soundstage. I need to audition moar phones and moar better amps...