[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't consider myself an artist. I am a designer. I find the HP1000's design to be extremely dated, and lacking in ergonomics / human factors. -Ed

That's not saying so much about what's wrong.... someone (not me) who likes writing in the wikipedia says that human factors is:
# The science of understanding the properties of human capability (Human Factors Science).
# The application of this understanding to the design and development of systems and services (Human Factors Engineering).
# The art of ensuring successful application of Human Factors Engineering to a programme (sometimes referred to as Human Factors Integration).

Now, what's specifically wrong with the HP1000?

 

[millionmonkeys]

Maybe it's the chemist in me but why do people talk about 'metal' and 'plastic' as though they are unimodal? I can make metals that mimic plastic and vice-versa. It's a 1940's argument.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif YOU COULD NOT HAVE PUT THIS BETTER! In Cars its the first nag on my list i will pick out! It's a sole reason why i never could stand the Vette of later years no matter how good the performance of the car is, get inside and all you have is cheap ass looking plastic! (the new vette is amazing but still tomuch plastic..) Atleast the big three could wrap the plastic in the vinyl like material that the Germens use (BMW, Audi, Benz) to hide the plastic and make it feel more pliable and solid...but no most of the big three use just plastic..yuck! One reason why Audi interiors are always a step above any one else in the price class, they use little plastic to be seen by the eye and if they do it's wrapped in vinyl material. When the Z4 first came out it became my dream car of sorts but the one thing i could not stand about it was the huge painted silver plastic interior trim. i guess sometime later on since 2003 they changed it to real aluminum cause thats what my 2006 has. even mine still had these plastic painted steering wheel controls and spokes (which is why i replaced the Wheel with a black plastic wheel from a Z4M). this summer i am replacing the painted plastic door handles with Carbon Fiber and same thing with the metal silve trim, just to get rid of the painted plastics...yuck!! sorry for such a off reply but what you said is so dead on about Cars! i remember when all american made cars had Vinyl in the interiors, remember the days before airbags and what not? those interiors felt and looked better anyday anytime then what we have now. i don't care if the vinyl will fade and crack over age cause it still feels better and looks to be more solid then plastic. plastic is great and needed in todays cars, i agree with that but don't paint it silver! don't paint it shiny black! just leave the little pieces matte black and wrap the main pieces in Vinyl..so easy.

Thank you for understanding what I've said. I think I put it plainly and succinctly, yet, you would be amazed with the comments in response to my initial post. Their counter argument is that these car companies use plastic extensively to save weight (yes, even 100 grams is apparently a lot of weight) and that an interior made with metal accents is too heavy and drives up the costs. This reminds of an experience I had a few years ago at the New York Auto Show. I was examining the door handle of a Mercedes and I was checking out the finish on the back side because the mechanism that you pull to open the door was chrome. I tried to see if it was plastic and it turned out that it was. What was shocking to me though was not that the plastic was spray painted chrome (though I hate this) but that there was chrome overspray on the body of the car, on top of the paint! You couldn't see it unless you were looking for it but I was amazed that Mercedes was charging $85,000 for this car and they were so lazy. Anyway, it is nice hearing from a car enthusiast who also appreciates and sees the effort that Audi puts into its interiors. For some reason though, I am fearful that they will go the way of the other German car makers and start using plastic instead of metal accents. It is nice to hear too that your Z4 has a lot of real metal veneers and accents. I also agree with you that the steering wheels are the most noisome. It seems that the only way to fix them is to just replace the steering wheel, which is what you've decided to do. A friend of mine just bought a 2009 BMW 535i and unfortunately, the dash is filled with cheap plastic buttons, knobs, and accents. You win some, you lose some I guess.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Wow, Sennheiser using "Leona" special high-tech plastic is way better than using ordinary low-tech plastic. Please, this is just the fox guarding the hen-house.

I guess the Sony R10 got it all wrong.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif I answered the plastic question HERE earlier today. The plastic used is used for its acoustic properties and *not* for cheapness.

Thanks! Heading over to read..

 

[pearljam5000]

here's a pic of the HD-700's prototype:

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif here's a pic of the HD-700's prototype:

Good job the HD 700 never made it to market then.

They realised it would not work and made the HD 800 instead.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif here's a pic of the HD-700's prototype:

That was hilarious!

 

[Snacks]

This is the iPod generation. Everything that looks good "sounds" good; it has to look as good as it sounds or sound as good as it looks

The HD 800 looks Fisher Price compared to the Qualia, duh, "all" headphone look that way compared to it. Maybe sennheiser should have hired Jacob the Jeweler or the folks over at Pimp my Ride.

The nerve of them to use 17" inch rims (stockers). They know the standard is 22"s baby! -- lol

I poke fun, but I can visualize someone actually going to the store and picking up a pair of Dr. Dre's (Monster) beats over the Sennheiser HD 800 because they go better with their outfit, house, car, and/or furniture. Little do they know, people are still going to think that they're off their rocker because they went out and spent $$$ for a pair of headphones and a "portable" amp to amplify them.

"You paid what? For those?

"

The Design the HD 800 will be of little significance to those that value their significance. Those that care about or value what other people think of the design need not pay admission and it would behoove them to carry on smartly; there is nothing here to see here!

 

[arnaud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for understanding what I've said. I think I put it plainly and succinctly, yet, you would be amazed with the comments in response to my initial post. Their counter argument is that these car companies use plastic extensively to save weight (yes, even 100 grams is apparently a lot of weight) and that an interior made with metal accents is too heavy and drives up the costs.

What's so amazing about the comments? You don't believe that plastic is much lighter than even aluminum? You don't believe that manufacturing a metal garnish plate is much more expensive than molded plastic? In my case, I just gave you some facts as I actually work on design of car interior trim in my daily job: weight and cost are a key issue for most of the vehicles sold today, like it or not.

If that's any consolation, I agree with you that US car makers have taken time to realize that the nastiest looking plastic for car interior isn't quite "good enough" for today's buyers. I believe you can actually make synthetic materials look good, e.g. what BHD812 mentioned about some European car interiors.

Now, I still don't see how this has so much to do with headphones. I feel like we're beating a dead horse here but:

1) You haven't even had the HD800 in your hands, for all I can tell from the pics it does not look like cheap plastic.

2) Do not dismiss mechanical properties of plastic (especially here as it's not your tradititional cheap PP) - it is self damped and offers good weight/stiffness ratio so it is a material of choice for any transducer designer. Also please do not distort people's arguments: I am NOT saying you can't use other materials like wood for instance.

arnaud

 

[davidhunternyc]

Yes, I too feel like we're beating a dead horse here. I have said as much as I could about the subject from beginning to end, and I really can't add anything else. I just hope that my point has been made and when the HD800 comes out, people will really scrutinize the build quality and decide for themselves if all the plastic used befits a $1400 headphone. I am hoping that the HD800 will sound like a Ferrari but not be built like a Yugo.

 

[immtbiker]

John Willet, are you in anyway affiliated with Sennheiser or sell any of their products?
Hate to be a downer, but if you are, then, going by the MOT rules, first of all, you would have to be branded an MOT, and secondly, you would not be allowed to comment in any threads related to Sennheiser or it's products.

On a side note, are you in anyway related to the famous Robert Willett from England?

 

[davidhunternyc]

Woops. I got it wrong. He does work for Sennheiser. No offense taken immtbiker. It is just that he answered the question publicly so I suppose he shouldn't be posting on Sennheiser threads. I don't mind however.

"because I work for Sennheiser"

 

[immtbiker]

David, no offense, but let's let John answer that question.

John, if you want privacy, you can PM me.

 

[millionmonkeys]

from other hd800 thread. accepted by other moderator.


Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not a "plant", I'm not a salesman and my interest is in classical music recording to very high quality (hence me spending thousands on top quality Sennheiser and Neumann microphones and a Nagra VI recorder). I am open and honest when I post; but, obviously, because I work for Sennheiser any review I wrote would be taken with a pinch of salt. Though, for what it's worth, I will post my initial impressions as soon as I actually get hold of a pair. All I have to go on at the moment is comments here and conversations with the designer and product manager. Though those have been interesting when they tell me that the HD 800 sounds pretty close to the Orpheus - so I am very eager to get my hands on a pair and listen to some of my own 24/96 masters through them. For UK people who want a listen, there should be a pair at the Bristol Hi-Fi show at the end of next month demonstrated with a Nagra CD and Grace m902 and the best recorded music I can find.