[AmanGeorge]

I got the HD800 a few weeks ago from another Head-Fi-er, and thought I'd share my thoughts about them here vis-a-vis my other cans before selling one of them off...

The HD800 is an excellent can, and certainly the best that I own of the three in my stable right now. They have no apparent flaws to my ear, but I must also add that I don’t think that the gulf between the 800 and the other two cans I own, the K701 and the CD3K, is massive. I spent a decent chunk of time during the holidays listening to the three of them and taking notes with a variety of music, and came to the conclusion that the HD800 is truly terrific, but not so good that other excellent headphones are unlistenable by comparison.

Areas where the HD800 is dominant:
-Bass: more bass slam, texture, and extension than the other two cans. The CD3K has decent slam (but worse than the Senn), but less extension; the K701, by contrast, has relatively less slam but excellent extension and texture. Neither one can really hold a candle to the HD800 in this area, though.
-Tonality: The tonality of the HD800 is consistently spot on, and sounds generally very smooth but realistic. The CD3K, by contrast, can sound slightly hollow/plasticky with the wrong instrument, while the K701 can sound grainy and a little harsh.

Areas where the HD800 is close to or slightly better than the other cans here:
-Soundstage and imaging: The HD800 is consistently excellent here, but the gap isn’t huge, especially between the HD800 and the K701. In fact, at times, the K701 sounded slightly airier than the Senns in my system (most noticeably with sparse mixes).
-Detail retrieval and speed: All three cans are excellent in this regard. The CD3K may be fractionally slower than the other two, but if so it comes off as sounding as if it has a slightly sweeter decay than actually sounding slow to my ears.
-Vocals: Vocals sound more lush out of the Senns than the other two cans, but more forward with the K701s. Tough call which I like better – the smoothness/sensuality of the Senns is really nice, but the K701 vocal presentation is very engaging in its own right.

Area where the HD800 gets bested (slightly):
-Dynamics: I find that the dynamic swings in the K701 sound more dramatic and powerful than they do with the HD800. This was apparent when listening to Beethoven’s 9th, when the huge crescendos just sounded slightly more satisfying out of the AKG.

All in all, though, the Sennheisers were consistently excellent, and will be staying in my headphone stable for a while, and the K701 is going to have to find a new home.

All the headphones, and the whole setup:

The Senns with my amp and DAC:

Some more detailed listening notes for those interested (note: these are a few songs where I took the time to jot down notes, but I've done a lot of listening over the last few weeks in an even wider variety of genres).

Beethoven, Symphony No. 9 (Bernstein in Berlin), First movement
HD800: Huge dynamic swings. Nice bass presence. From blackness, sound arises. Extremely powerful. Soundstage, imaging, are both spot on.
K701: Also sounds phenomenal, incredible dynamic swings. Imaging is not as clear as the HD800. It’s a little bit of a wall of noise. The bass is not quite as satisfying – you can hear it, but not really feel it; it’s just shy of being totally present. There’s more treble energy – it’s a slightly brighter presentation, but totally satisfying dynamically and tonally – maybe even a little more dynamic than the HD800. The soundstage and imaging is the most notable difference I can hear. Let’s try the CD3K. Soundstage width is really good, but depth is compressed compared to the HD800.
CD3K: Excellent dynamics again, but not as much treble detail as the K701 and HD800.. The sound is a little sweeter than the K701 or the HD800, I think due to a fractionally longer decay. Bass presence is again lacking slightly but not as noticeably.
K701: When it gets quiet, it gets quiet. Feels the lightest in the bass of the three. There’s more energy than in the CD3K because of the speed of decay, but I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not.
HD800: It sounds noticeably darker than either of the others (!). Soundstage depth is outstanding. The very quiet violin that plays in the quieter bits can actually be made out in this, where it sounds a little bit like just background noise in the other two. Dynamic swings are not as intense as with the CD3K or the K701 – when these get loud it’s not as noticeable.

I could really live with any of these cans for classical. Because I’m a sucker for a good reproduction of soundstage and clear imaging/separation, the HD800 wins, but only beats the other two (which sound like they have an edge when it comes to dynamic swings) by a hair. It would be a tough call between the K701 and the CD3K – they actually don’t sound that far apart. The CD3K sounds marginally more closed in and has a slightly sweeter decay, but still sounds excellent. If I had to rank them here, it would be HD800, K701, CD3K, but very close between all three.


Holst – The Planets (Charles Dutoit) – Mars
HD800: Brass sounds really powerful. Never sounds muddy at all. The presence of bass makes a big difference here – it’s like listening to something else entirely than on the other headphones. It’s that much more ominous. And the detail retrieval is superior. Imaging is as clear as it can possibly be.
K701: Music has a little less body to it due to the lack of bass. I can hear the slight plasticky-ness in the brass. Here I think I have a clear preference for the HD800 – the lack of bass is killing here.
CD3K: Soundstage width is not great. It sounds actually a little narrow here relative to the other two. The soundstage sounds a little too compressed here – the separation isn’t great and stuff is jumbling together.

Here the HD800 comes out in front a little more clearly than in the Beethoven piece – maybe due to the more prominent booming brass in the ensemble. Then the K701, and the CD3K falls behind because this is a rare occasion in which it really starts to sound like a closed headphone. It’s hard to fault its soundstaging, except in the company of the two largest-soundstage dynamic headphones.


Dave Brubek – Take Five (Blu-spec CD)
HD800 is wonderful, but really almost sounds dark if your ears get accustomed to the presentation of the other two. It’s a little more polite than the K701 – not as in your face and energetic. Bass is seriously present on these, unlike with the other two. I may be crazy but it doesn’t feel perfectly controlled, although the texture is great.
CD3K sounds really good too. The sax sounds amazing – more intimate and romantic with the HD800, more playful and energetic with the CD3K. Both have a very smooth midrange without losing any detail. The CD3K sounds a little more laid back, with a spatial presentation that can’t quite match the HD800.
I actually think the sax may sound best on the K701, although slightly bright. It has the slightly sensual, breathy presentation of the HD800, but retains the energy that you hear in the CD3K. But the details are a little intrusive into the mix with the K701 – I feel a little overwhelmed by all the information coming at me. It’s all there with the other two cans, but less in-your-face.

This one is really close. I think all three are winners. If I was forced to pick, it would probably be a tie between the HD800 and the K701, with the CD3K very close behind.

Youn Sun Nah - Dancing With You
CD3K: Sounds very nice, slightly sparse. Youn Sun Nah’s voice is a little thinner here. It’s a very musical headphone that is somewhat intimate because it’s closed (in a good way, that doesn’t really sound “closed-in”) but the vocal presentation isn’t as good as on the HD800 or K701.
The HD800 is definitely more forward – the CD3K is more laid back for sure. Both have pretty impressively deep soundstages.
The K701 has the crispest bite out of the three, but actually sounds slightly compressed inward here – as forward as the HD800 without the soundstage width of either the CD3K or the K701. The voice is very forward here.

Tough call… Probably HD800, then tie between CD3K and K701


The Eagles - Hotel California
CD3K: A little brighter than the HD800, but not really worse… The intimacy is really nice and makes for a very engaging sound. Smoother midrange than the K701 for sure. This beats the AKG here.
HD800: More relaxed sound than the CD3K, with the vocals blending back into the mix a little bit. More relaxed sound again, switching back from the CD3K, but not any better or worse. I could do either one depending on the mood I was in.
K701: Vocals are more prominent in the mix. The sound is a little on the polite side, but more airy than with either of the other cans. Definitely the airiest, but also the harshest – too much bite in the treble area – it is actually slightly painful coming from the HD800.

Tie between the CD3K and the HD800, with the K701 further back.

 

[wharfrat1]

For the college football fans out there, the HD800's are the Tim Tebow of the headphone world. Just because something/someone gets tons of positive press and seems too good to be true does not mean that they aren't that good.

It's a shame that when this happens in our society, it breaks things into two camps: 1. Those that end up loving said thing/person 2. those that hate said thing/person. There really is no middle ground.

Usually, on both sides there will be those that make a decision without, in our case, listening to the product. I think this tends to make up the majority of the naysayers, which again, is a shame.

I absolutely love these cans. The detail produced is the farthest from being stale or boring. It actually takes you into the soul of the music/performance more than anything I've heard. Isn't that what we are really searching for? I know that's what I'm after. Yes they are pricey, but I've had no regrets with the money spent. If you are interested, do not let me or anyone else sway your opinion. Go to one of our many reputable sponsors with a 30 day return policy and listen for yourself.

 

[Yikes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zotjen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've never understood how a headphone could be boring, and I certainly don't find the HD800 as such. People seem to equate detailed and analytical with boring or uninvolving which is an even stranger concept to me. If your music is uninvolving, blame the performers and not your headphones.

You're wrong here. There is such a thing as a transducer that at certain playback levels can lack dynamic contrast. The Sennheiser 800's are just such a transducer (Although to a lesser extent than the 600/650's). An example of this in the speaker world are Magneplanar speakers. They sound wonderful once you get them cranked, but at low to moderate levels they lack dynamics. At the modest levels that I tend to listen at the 800's sound kind of lifeless. It's certainly not true for everyone, but it is for me. You'll excuse me if I choose not to blame the several thousand CD's in my collection for an issue that I (and some others) have with the 800's. 800 fans shouldn't take such criticisms personally. No product can please all listeners, it doesn't mean that the product is inferior, or that the listeners are either. It's just that it's different strokes...

 

[pearljam5000]

So,AmanGeorge are you dissapointed in the HD800?i mean for 1400$ they should beat the crap out of the K701 and the CD3K,and not just be slightly better.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So,AmanGeorge are you dissapointed in the HD800?i mean for 1400$ they should beat the crap out of the K701 and the CD3K,and not just be slightly better.

That's the way it's always been in hi-fi, where you can spend 2-4x the price to get that next 10% improvement.

 

[pearljam5000]

That's dissapointing to know the bitter truth HeadphoneAddict.

 

[dallan]

10% I don't know i think it is more than that. It blows away the 650s and my DX1000s and though it does cost 3x the 650s it doesn't cost even 2x the DX1000s. With the 650s if you throw in the mandatory recable-I have Zu at around $350. then you are looking at less than twice the price of the 650s. If I had to say how much better I wouldn't pick 10%.......maybe 25-35%. if pinned down, but possible more.

 

[peanuthead]

Hmm, in terms of overall performance, I'd say HD800 is 52% better than HD650. In terms of overall enjoyment, I'd say HD800 is 15% better than HD650.
Sure, I pulled these numbers out of my ass, but there some element of truth in there somewhere

 

[nae45ro]

Yikes, what you heard may be true but believe me...either the headphone wasn't truly burned in or you haven't had the chance to listen to it from a good source/amp. When I bought the headphones, they did sound pretty boring and lacked dynamics in mid-bass/sub-bass area. I was listening to them using Benchmark DAC-1 as a source. During the first 100 hours of listening I couldn't believe how much things improved from just burning-in. The sound became more relaxed and smoother but it was still pretty boring. It wasn't until I bought the EMM-Labs CDSAse that I discovered music.Even through my mediocre Bada PH-12 amp the difference between the 2 sources is night and day. I'm listening 2-3 hours/day and I just find it difficult to take the phones off my head. I just can't wait for the Sonett to be here in a few days to see how much of an improvement I can still see. What I can say for now is the sound is incredibly realistic. There is absolutely no way for these cans to be boring if you give them the proper source/amp. They are indeed dificult headphones but once you give them what they want the reward is sublime !

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's dissapointing to know the bitter truth HeadphoneAddict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan /img/forum/go_quote.gif 10% I don't know i think it is more than that. It blows away the 650s and my DX1000s and though it does cost 3x the 650s it doesn't cost even 2x the DX1000s. With the 650s if you throw in the mandatory recable-I have Zu at around $350. then you are looking at less than twice the price of the 650s. If I had to say how much better I wouldn't pick 10%.......maybe 25-35%. if pinned down, but possible more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanuthead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm, in terms of overall performance, I'd say HD800 is 52% better than HD650. In terms of overall enjoyment, I'd say HD800 is 15% better than HD650. Sure, I pulled these numbers out of my ass, but there some element of truth in there somewhere

I not putting the difference at 10% (or any percentage), I'm just re-stating the rule.

I think there is a big jump in performance going from K701 to the HD800, and an even bigger jump from CD3000 to HD800. But, I'm not going to quantify it.

 

[peanuthead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif I not putting the difference at 10% (or any percentage), I'm just re-stating the rule. I think there is a big jump in performance going from K701 to the HD800, and an even bigger jump from CD3000 to HD800. But, I'm not going to quantify it.

I hope you don't think I was picking on your post...
What I was trying to say was that, in my experience, certain amount of increase in technical performance doesn't always equate to the same amount of jump in musical enjoyment. Sometimes I find myself enjoying the music more on less than ideal set-ups...

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wharfrat1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the college football fans out there, the HD800's are the Tim Tebow of the headphone world. Just because something/someone gets tons of positive press and seems too good to be true does not mean that they aren't that good. It's a shame that when this happens in our society, it breaks things into two camps: 1. Those that end up loving said thing/person 2. those that hate said thing/person. There really is no middle ground. Usually, on both sides there will be those that make a decision without, in our case, listening to the product. I think this tends to make up the majority of the naysayers, which again, is a shame. I absolutely love these cans. The detail produced is the farthest from being stale or boring. It actually takes you into the soul of the music/performance more than anything I've heard. Isn't that what we are really searching for? I know that's what I'm after. Yes they are pricey, but I've had no regrets with the money spent. If you are interested, do not let me or anyone else sway your opinion. Go to one of our many reputable sponsors with a 30 day return policy and listen for yourself.

If, highly detailed, crazy speed, ultra clarity, & great tonal balance is considered boring, then I must love watching paint dry on walls..

 

[AmanGeorge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So,AmanGeorge are you dissapointed in the HD800?i mean for 1400$ they should beat the crap out of the K701 and the CD3K,and not just be slightly better.

I don't know if I'd say I'm disappointed. I really like the CD3K and the K701, and I liked them because I thought they provided excellent sound regardless of price. The HD800 improves on them almost across the board, but not to the point where I think to myself "man, how did I even listen to those cans before?" Those two cans have a lot of strengths and some slight weaknesses - the HD800 basically eliminates those weaknesses while (for the most part) improving on the strengths. I think that's no small feat considering how highly I regard the K701 and the CD3K, but no can is ever going to be so good to my ears that the other two sound bad.

One edit: I will say that the HD800 sounds a little different in my setup than I've heard other places - a little darker/warmer than in other rigs where I've listened to it.

 

[PascalT]

Would I need to buy a new amp if I got the 800s? I'm tempted to buy a pair but not if i need to upgrade my setup further. I already spent enough, but I keep saying this so who knows.

Does anyone know if there's a place in Montreal to demo them?

 

[john53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PascalT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Would I need to buy a new amp if I got the 800s? I'm tempted to buy a pair but not if i need to upgrade my setup further. I already spent enough, but I keep saying this so who knows. Does anyone know if there's a place in Montreal to demo them?

Well,my x can v8(similar priced with your little dot?),did a fine job driving them,i liked them a bit better than my hd 600 out of the same setup(which i also like very much out of my amp).

My opinion is,if you already like your headphones with your amp,then stay there and enjoy the music.

If you like to try something new and have enough money to spent,then go for it.
But of course try to find a place there to demo them.I'm sure you'll find somewhere to try them...(and it would be better to take your amp/player/cables with you,that's what i did when i tried them in the past)
I'm from Greece so i don't know where you should go to try them,but i'm prety sure it would be easy.Try to find a local sennheiser dealer.