[kman1211]

The DAC and the Amp are both in the dongle. So the dongle is doing the decoding and amplification.

What happens on the phone?

• Source file. Assming source is the same.
• EQ applied by the phone. This is possible. If so, this is not true difference. EQ can be applied on any device.
• Sending the digital source data to DAC. The phone does nothing here, so model should not matter.
• [Edit: additional possible difference] The amp power comes from the phone. If different models provide different power thru the lightning port, then that can make a difference.

No EQ, never use EQ on the phone. Same source file. Same iOS so potential software changes likely addressed. The new iphone does output more power as it got louder with more control. Also had less noise and interference on the new phone because I had some noise issues (most notable on iems but occurred on some full sized headphones too) on the 11 Pro Max and not the 14 Pro Max. Which makes me think the lightning port wasn't as well shielded on the old phone. These changes made the differences between the two quite noticeable to my ears.

I personally find the HD 660 S with the 14 Pro Max and the dongle quite nice.

 

[rafaelo]

Yeah, we morons here in Europe will keep paying full retail so Sennheiser can offer you Americans crazy good deals by Drop. We are basically sponsoring the American market.
To be honest a bit sick and tired of this.

The most expensive place on earth to buy a Sennheiser is ironically in Germany itself.

I completely understand your frustration.

Although I bought 3 drop products, as I live in London, it is a pain and much more expensive and I do not think I will do it again except maybe if I need to replace my 58X.

But my personal take on this is that even Sennheiser does not like this situation but forced to react to competition a little bit.

For example many believe that the 58X (150$ at the time) was offered as a reaction to 4XX (170$ at the time) which believe it or not at that time was looking as a threat and competitor. It was sandwiched from above and below.

Back then and before brexit it was not much more expensive to buy the original HD 650 but I did not like the colour. I bought the 6XX because was much prettier to me back then in midnight blue.

Now with the new molds both HD600 and HD650 look stunning and have better plastics so if you find a good deal is even better.

The 58x is a shame that is not offered outside drop but this is another issue entirely.

 

[Thomasr]

• EQ applied by the phone. This is possible. If so, this is not true difference. EQ can be applied on any device

And you may not even realize this is happening. For the first little while using my current phone (Moto Edge) as a music source, something didn't sound quite right. Long story short, when I dug through the settings I discovered "audio effects" being applied by default.

 

[Dust by Monday]

Second is power to meet the peak and transient. If you are close to the max volume, your amp will not have enough power to support peak levels without clipping. You can read more about this here: https://www.audeze.com/blogs/technology-and-innovation/sensitivity-impedance-and-amplifier-power

Let me then ask you this. In a very quiet room, I have my iPhone at 50% volume with the 6XX and if there’s more noise going on around me, I hover around 70%. Is that enough headroom? During quieter songs, I leave the volume alone and just listen to that song play more quietly.

Also, I always assumed that the song can’t go louder than the volume you have the device set at, so I don’t know how something is going to clip.

 

[Luckyleo]

I'm not sure that clipping is always the issue. The Sennheiser headphones require a lot more power to sound great vs. sounding good. I'm sure others with much more knowledge than me can weigh in.

Leo

 

[D00M]

Also, I always assumed that the song can’t go louder than the volume you have the device set at, so I don’t know how something is going to clip.

I linked the article from Audeze previously. Here is another link with more info: https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html

You are typically listening to average volume of 65-85 dB. Then the music can have up to 30 dB of dynamic range. So you should have enough power to cover around 105-115 dB. If you run out of power, the signal is clipped (cut off).

You can use the simple table in the link above. Or you can use headphone power calculator. https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/

 

[Dust by Monday]

I linked the article from Audeze previously. Here is another link with more info: https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html

You are typically listening to average volume of 65-85 dB. Then the music can have up to 30 dB of dynamic range. So you should have enough power to cover around 105-115 dB. If you run out of power, the signal is clipped (cut off).

You can use the simple table in the link above. Or you can use headphone power calculator. https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/

I understand all of that, but what if I’m not raising the volume on high dynamic range music? I just pick a general volume and leave it there. If the song sounds quieter, oh well.

 

[D00M]

I'm not sure that clipping is always the issue. The Sennheiser headphones require a lot more power to sound great vs. sounding good. I'm sure others with much more knowledge than me can weigh in.

Leo

If there is lack of power, then clipping can be a problem. Everyone can hear as sounding odd (compressed, less dynamic, etc).

On the other hand, there is also personal taste and preference. I believe that is what you are describing. Different amps and tubes provide different sound, color, or emphasis. It is hard to say what is better or worse. For instance, Dust by Monday does not hear a difference between HD6XX and HD660S or MAC vs iPhone. Then others will have strong preference for certain DACs or Amps. Then others have preference by changing tubes.

 

[Satriany]

Hello,

What IS recommended these days as a DAC amp, not overpriced for these headphones ?
I have a ifi signature but don't know if I could go with something cheaper...
Regards Greg

 

[Confuddled]

Hello,

What IS recommended these days as a DAC amp, not overpriced for these headphones ?
I have a ifi signature but don't know if I could go with something cheaper...
Regards Greg

ZEN DAC Signature + ZEN CAN Signature 6XX works well for me. One reviewer, headphonia I think, was of the opinion that the 6XX tuning button worked best on the HD660S'. But it's only a subtle difference, and seems to work equally well with my Verums. Can't compare it to anything else...yet !

 

[Satriany]

Thanks
Was looking for a all in one box. Not necessarily portable.
Maybe I should keep the ifi signature....and the heddphone hooked to it lol.

 

[Satriany]

Any comment on the fact that the hd660s driver is a hd700 driver 'upgrade' ?

 

[pk4425]

Any comment on the fact that the hd660s driver is a hd700 driver 'upgrade' ?

Is that indeed a fact or do you seek verification/opinion of that as a fact? Sincere question.

 

[kman1211]

Is that indeed a fact or do you seek verification/opinion of that as a fact? Sincere question.

According to Sennheiser the HD 660 S and HD 700 share the same driver. The HD 660S2 driver is supposed to be the upgraded driver.

 

[Dust by Monday]

Any comment on the fact that the hd660s driver is a hd700 driver 'upgrade' ?

Good news is the HD 700 driver doesn’t sound the same inside the HD 6## chassis.