Will i need 660S if i have a HD700 and Loki?
Sennheiser HD660S... Finally a successor for the HD650?
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Will i need 660S if i have a HD700 and Loki?
Sigmaaa
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Only if you want a more full bodied midrange and lack of treble peaks. The soundstage will be smaller on the hd660s though.
god-bluff
Headphoneus Supremus
You only NEED one headphone
(EDIT meaning one PAIR of headphones
)
(EDIT meaning one PAIR of headphones
)
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Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
My HD700s also did that for me on more than one occasion, raised the hairs on the back of my neck…..I let them go once I had the 800S but even those oddly have yet to duplicate that sensation, must be some magic in that weird quirky treble some cannot tolerate. : )
The 660s have the implementation of a similar driver but due to the completely different housing I do not even expect the same performance but still looking forward to give them a listen non the less.
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olddtfan
100+ Head-Fier
I had the good luck of my friend letting me borrow his pair of 660 s for a day. I can safely say i wont be selling my 650 any time soon. The 660 s is as great sounding headphone the sound is tighter than the 650 and sound stage is wider. I don't feel there is more bass just tighter and more detailed but i found the upper mid's to be somewhat shouty and it bothered me quite a bit .It may have been just me. Overall there wasn't much else to complain about but at the current 500.00 $ price tag there is not enough improvement for me to buy them.
amartignano
1000+ Head-Fier
This is precisely the reason why I've not sold the Hd700 even after the Hd800S entered the house.
Blasphemy!!!You only NEED one headphone
(EDIT meaning one PAIR of headphones
...is it you, dear wife?
pietcux
Headphoneus Supremus
May I ask to which genre you listen, my HD660S only shouts, when the artist does. And please add the gear that was used to demo them.
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Sigmaaa
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The problem is that almost any headphone has shouty upper-mids compared to HD650. HD650 are overly smooth, that's why some consider it veiled.
I have to ask. I own HD600 and i like them lot. What these (HD660S) sound with metal or progressive metal/heavy? Sorry my bad english.
FancyRobotUnicorn
New Head-Fier
Thanks for the response! I am intrigued now, but unfortunately I'm in an area where I can't get ahold of any to audition before buying. These hd660s look interesting, but I've been spoiled by the soundstage on the 598's and I'm afraid the soundstage won't be much of an improvement over the 600's, whereas the hd700's are actually a little cheaper currently on amazon. I'm cautious because of that peaky treble so many seem to hate, though. The strange thing is that I've heard many say the 598's are brighter than the 600's, but to my ears it feels the opposite. So I'm beginning to think I should trust my own ears more, and that I might like the 700's. I should probably wait until more word is in on the 660s.
daltonlanny
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It's still odd how they would be shouty.
I always felt the HD600 to be somewhat shouty around 3.5 khz, and the HD660s has less output from 2khz to 4.5khz than the HD600, according to measurements.
I always felt the HD600 to be somewhat shouty around 3.5 khz, and the HD660s has less output from 2khz to 4.5khz than the HD600, according to measurements.
FancyRobotUnicorn
New Head-Fier
I've had something of that sensation with 598's, which I attribute to its kind of frontal presentation of the soundstage. Opera especially can be downright eerie on them sometimes. I'm convinced that angled drivers do actually help to create a more natural, (almost) speaker-like soundstage, and why I'm considering the 700 over the 660's. The 600's give me that 3 blob thing going on with the soundstage.
So, I've been listening to the 600 and 660S back and forth, side-by-side for five days almost any time I've had free. It took me a while to appreciate the differences, going to try and sum them up here, succinctly I hope.
Disclaimer: I am not a professional reviewer, don't claim to be, just do it for fun and to help people here on HF. This is how things sound to my ears with my understanding and use of the audiophile lexicon. If something doesn't make sense, just ask and I will try to clarify. I own the 660S, not the 600, although at multiple points during this review I considered purchasing the 600, but ultimately decided against it. All listening was done from lossless FLAC out of Foobar 2000 > Schiit Modi Multibit > Schiit Lyr 2. Tubes used were either 1953 Western Electric JW 2C51 or 1953 Tesla 6CC42 pinched-waist.
Soundstage: the difference in soundstage jumps out immediately when switching between the two headphones. The 660S soundstage is significantly larger, instruments and ambient sounds are layered much more accurately, whereas switching to the 600 causes the stage to feel almost claustrophobic. Some have wondered if the staging on the 660S is exaggerated; I really mean it when I say that I think it is just the right amount, enough to appreciate small differences in distance and layering, but not so large that it sounds unnatural. The stage of the 660S is more enveloping, better height as well as depth, where the 600 feels more close to the ear and crowded.
Tonality: I know the 600 has been hailed as the king of neutral headphones, but I would say it is a bit bright of neutral (I know it is all relative). The emphasized upper midrange and treble makes the 600 a bit peaky and somewhat fatiguing, but is also music genre/recording dependent. It is a gift and a curse I think. The emphasized midrange brings with it great texture, especially for the human voice and string instruments. The 600 to me also feels a bit bass-light, maybe just my preference, but I'll talk music genres later where I noticed it most. The 660S I would say are a bit dark of neutral. The midrange, to me, sounds much more flat and neutral relative to the 600, but the dip in the upper midrange, from 2-3.5 K gives it a more laid back character. The peakiness of the 600 is noticably gone when switching between the headphones, making the 660S a much more fatigue-free listen. This whole "660S is shouty" thing to me is confusing. Like I said before, it is all relative. Going from the 650 to the 660S, I could see someone feeling it is shouty, especially if they have been listening to both headphones at the same volume. But going from the 660S to the 600, the 600 is MUCH more shouty sounding. The 660S falls right between the 600 and the 650 (from my memory) in terms of midrange presence. Now, the 660S bass is much more clean and present than the 600. Looking at the frequency response curves, the 660S has maybe 1-2 dB over the 600 in the mid/upper bass regions while the sub-bass regions almost perfectly overlay one another, but the experienced difference is significant. There must be other factors in play. The increased bass response of the 660S gives it more body/girth/weight than the 600, a big improvement over it, in my opinion. Treble of the 660S is detailed, lively, but not overemphasized or fatiguing in any way.
Detail retrieval: this will be short: the 660S is the much more detailed headphone. The texture produced by the upper midrange/treble of the 600 can initially fool you, but on closer listen with hi-res recordings, the 660S simply allows you to hear more micro-details: whisps of breath, pages turning, the most minute remnants of a decaying note. I think the increased staging also contributes to the effect, as there isn't as much spatial overlap between sounds. It is more detailed than the 600, period.
Timbre: I want to just make a comment on the timbre of the two headphones. I don't have a lot of experience describing timbre, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it goes without saying that the two headphones will sound a bit different in general given that these are really two different driver designs. At this point, I think it is generally accepted that the 660S has a HD700 driver tuned to sound more like a 6XX series headphone. I said in a previous post that the 660S leaned a little toward the analytical, I think another user thought it sounded "thinner" on first listen. The word I would use to describe it now, relative to the 600, is dry, which I suppose would make the 600 more wet sounding. Not a huge difference, but an appreciable difference in character.
Dynamics: on the 660S, the combination of the increased staging, detail, bass response all contribute to it having an overall less dynamically compressed, lively, and engaging sound compared to the 600.
Genre strengths/weaknessnes: I think the 600 excels with acoustic music, female voice, string instruments, some ambient electronica, jazz, things that have great texture and don't require a great amount of bass presence/impact. I found that I really enjoyed the 600 for vocals in general. Electric guitars also really pop with the 600, but you can fall into fatigue trouble quickly depending on the recording. Now, the 600 really falls short, for me, for more lively electronic music (techno, house, trance, etc.) as well as rap/hip-hop. It just doesn't have the low-end to make those genres thump and come alive, compared to the 660S. By comparison, the 660S is excellent for those genres, good thumping low end, non-fatiguing treble, and a very exciting listen. I'm no metal head (haven't revisited my teenage metal years, yet), but I listened to a few tracks since some people were asking. The trade off between the two: what you lose in the midrange liveliness of guitars in metal/rock music when going from the 600 to the 660S you gain in the bass, giving electric guitars/bass and their distortion great weight, really adds to the amp-you-up factor in metal break-downs. That isn't to say the midrange of these guitars is recessed in the 660S, just more true to neutral than the midrange-emphasized 600. I also mentioned in a previous post that I liked the 600 for classical. While I do feel the 600 brings a great texture to string instruments and does well for solo piano/concertos/chamber music, the improvements in soundstage and detail retrieval of the 660S makes it overall a better listen for classical and especially better for orchestral works.
Summary: these are both great headphones. You can really tell that Sennheiser hit on something special all those years ago with the 600. I love the texture of the midrange, and peaks aside, nearly bought a pair. But when it comes down to it, the 660S is the technically superior headphone and a better all-rounder, in my opinion. Improvements in the staging, detail, bass response, and peak-free listening stand out the most. The response to the differences in the tonal profile will vary from user to user, but it falls more in line with my preferences.
Anyway, hope that is helpful for some people, let me know if you have any questions, and happy listening!
Here is the frequency response comparison again, pink being the HD600, green being the HD660S, source is DIY Audio Heaven, a great technical review if you haven't seen it already: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd660s/
Disclaimer: I am not a professional reviewer, don't claim to be, just do it for fun and to help people here on HF. This is how things sound to my ears with my understanding and use of the audiophile lexicon. If something doesn't make sense, just ask and I will try to clarify. I own the 660S, not the 600, although at multiple points during this review I considered purchasing the 600, but ultimately decided against it. All listening was done from lossless FLAC out of Foobar 2000 > Schiit Modi Multibit > Schiit Lyr 2. Tubes used were either 1953 Western Electric JW 2C51 or 1953 Tesla 6CC42 pinched-waist.
Soundstage: the difference in soundstage jumps out immediately when switching between the two headphones. The 660S soundstage is significantly larger, instruments and ambient sounds are layered much more accurately, whereas switching to the 600 causes the stage to feel almost claustrophobic. Some have wondered if the staging on the 660S is exaggerated; I really mean it when I say that I think it is just the right amount, enough to appreciate small differences in distance and layering, but not so large that it sounds unnatural. The stage of the 660S is more enveloping, better height as well as depth, where the 600 feels more close to the ear and crowded.
Tonality: I know the 600 has been hailed as the king of neutral headphones, but I would say it is a bit bright of neutral (I know it is all relative). The emphasized upper midrange and treble makes the 600 a bit peaky and somewhat fatiguing, but is also music genre/recording dependent. It is a gift and a curse I think. The emphasized midrange brings with it great texture, especially for the human voice and string instruments. The 600 to me also feels a bit bass-light, maybe just my preference, but I'll talk music genres later where I noticed it most. The 660S I would say are a bit dark of neutral. The midrange, to me, sounds much more flat and neutral relative to the 600, but the dip in the upper midrange, from 2-3.5 K gives it a more laid back character. The peakiness of the 600 is noticably gone when switching between the headphones, making the 660S a much more fatigue-free listen. This whole "660S is shouty" thing to me is confusing. Like I said before, it is all relative. Going from the 650 to the 660S, I could see someone feeling it is shouty, especially if they have been listening to both headphones at the same volume. But going from the 660S to the 600, the 600 is MUCH more shouty sounding. The 660S falls right between the 600 and the 650 (from my memory) in terms of midrange presence. Now, the 660S bass is much more clean and present than the 600. Looking at the frequency response curves, the 660S has maybe 1-2 dB over the 600 in the mid/upper bass regions while the sub-bass regions almost perfectly overlay one another, but the experienced difference is significant. There must be other factors in play. The increased bass response of the 660S gives it more body/girth/weight than the 600, a big improvement over it, in my opinion. Treble of the 660S is detailed, lively, but not overemphasized or fatiguing in any way.
Detail retrieval: this will be short: the 660S is the much more detailed headphone. The texture produced by the upper midrange/treble of the 600 can initially fool you, but on closer listen with hi-res recordings, the 660S simply allows you to hear more micro-details: whisps of breath, pages turning, the most minute remnants of a decaying note. I think the increased staging also contributes to the effect, as there isn't as much spatial overlap between sounds. It is more detailed than the 600, period.
Timbre: I want to just make a comment on the timbre of the two headphones. I don't have a lot of experience describing timbre, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it goes without saying that the two headphones will sound a bit different in general given that these are really two different driver designs. At this point, I think it is generally accepted that the 660S has a HD700 driver tuned to sound more like a 6XX series headphone. I said in a previous post that the 660S leaned a little toward the analytical, I think another user thought it sounded "thinner" on first listen. The word I would use to describe it now, relative to the 600, is dry, which I suppose would make the 600 more wet sounding. Not a huge difference, but an appreciable difference in character.
Dynamics: on the 660S, the combination of the increased staging, detail, bass response all contribute to it having an overall less dynamically compressed, lively, and engaging sound compared to the 600.
Genre strengths/weaknessnes: I think the 600 excels with acoustic music, female voice, string instruments, some ambient electronica, jazz, things that have great texture and don't require a great amount of bass presence/impact. I found that I really enjoyed the 600 for vocals in general. Electric guitars also really pop with the 600, but you can fall into fatigue trouble quickly depending on the recording. Now, the 600 really falls short, for me, for more lively electronic music (techno, house, trance, etc.) as well as rap/hip-hop. It just doesn't have the low-end to make those genres thump and come alive, compared to the 660S. By comparison, the 660S is excellent for those genres, good thumping low end, non-fatiguing treble, and a very exciting listen. I'm no metal head (haven't revisited my teenage metal years, yet
), but I listened to a few tracks since some people were asking. The trade off between the two: what you lose in the midrange liveliness of guitars in metal/rock music when going from the 600 to the 660S you gain in the bass, giving electric guitars/bass and their distortion great weight, really adds to the amp-you-up factor in metal break-downs. That isn't to say the midrange of these guitars is recessed in the 660S, just more true to neutral than the midrange-emphasized 600. I also mentioned in a previous post that I liked the 600 for classical. While I do feel the 600 brings a great texture to string instruments and does well for solo piano/concertos/chamber music, the improvements in soundstage and detail retrieval of the 660S makes it overall a better listen for classical and especially better for orchestral works.Summary: these are both great headphones. You can really tell that Sennheiser hit on something special all those years ago with the 600. I love the texture of the midrange, and peaks aside, nearly bought a pair. But when it comes down to it, the 660S is the technically superior headphone and a better all-rounder, in my opinion. Improvements in the staging, detail, bass response, and peak-free listening stand out the most. The response to the differences in the tonal profile will vary from user to user, but it falls more in line with my preferences.
Anyway, hope that is helpful for some people, let me know if you have any questions, and happy listening!
Here is the frequency response comparison again, pink being the HD600, green being the HD660S, source is DIY Audio Heaven, a great technical review if you haven't seen it already: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd660s/
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