[kman1211]

All of which I agree with, except for the bit about ‘veil’ which is not something that I’ve ever found my later HD650’s to be (perhaps the first pre silver screen ones where?), but specifically, do you find the HD660S brighter or darker that the HD650 in the treble (in other words, does the HD660S have more or less treble presence compared to the other frequencies than the HD650)? The reason I ask is that I consistently find there to be less, which is what many of the FR graphs show (including the one from DIY-A-H) but I had always previously had the impression that the consensus of opinion was that the HD660S was a brighter sounding headphone with more treble presence.
I’m just trying to understand why it is that that is not what I’m hearing, nor is it what the graphs show, yet it seems to be the general impression. Of course the FR graph from SW did show more high frequency presence and they criticised it for being too bright for critical listening. That’s certainly not true of mine.

I think the reason many find the HD 660 S brighter is due to its stronger overall midrange presence than the HD 650, since the midrange is one of the most sensitive parts of our hearing it doesn’t surprise me more can come off as brighter. The HD 650 does have more treble presence in my experience but the HD 660 S came off as brighter due to a stronger midrange and less bass warmth, despite its highs being more muted than the HD 650. But it has been a while since I heard them side by side, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I did decide to get the HD 650 again, or rather the HD 6XX, which is the same thing. I also plan on getting the HD 660 S again, which I ended up giving to a friend, but I’m waiting for the design refresh to become available here in the US before I do. While I do fall more in the Beyer camp, I realized having one or two of the HD 6 family headphones in my stable is always worthwhile and I always miss them some even though I have headphones I like more.

 

[Ichos]

The 660s sounds more clear and not necessarily bright due to the 1-3Khz recession.
This makes the rest of the treble to sound more prominent but not bright.
Clever ha!!!?

The 650 is much more flat from 1-7Khz so it will sound more dull and not pronounced in comparison BUT without less detail as most people think.

 

[kman1211]

The 660s sounds more clear and not necessarily bright due to the 1-3Khz recession.
This makes the rest of the treble to sound more prominent but not bright.
Clever ha!!!?

The 650 is much more flat from 1-7Khz so it will sound more dull and not pronounced in comparison BUT without less detail as most people think.

Interestingly when I last heard them side by side volume matched to the best I was able, I do remember the HD 650 sounded clearer to me but it could be a combination of the system I was listening to at the time and how my ears are. Honestly whether the HD 600, HD 650, or HD 660 S sounds the best depends on the persons ears, the system, and also listening volumes. I noticed impressions of the same headphone, on the same system, at the same listening level, on the same song, can vary quite a bit from person to person

 

[Ichos]

I agree.

 

[Mike F]

The HD 650 does have more treble presence in my experience but the HD 660 S came off as brighter due to a stronger midrange and less bass warmth, despite its highs being more muted than the HD 650. But it has been a while since I heard them side by side, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

No, I think you’re absolutely right. That’s also what I hear anyway. I certainly don’t find the HD650 to be less detailed or revealing than the HD660S, they’re just different and both have great appeal. I think you definitely should get them both again!

 

[Mike F]

Interestingly when I last heard them side by side volume matched to the best I was able, I do remember the HD 650 sounded clearer to me but it could be a combination of the system I was listening to at the time and how my ears are. Honestly whether the HD 600, HD 650, or HD 660 S sounds the best depends on the persons ears, the system, and also listening volumes. I noticed impressions of the same headphone, on the same system, at the same listening level, on the same song, can vary quite a bit from person to person

Again, that’s what I hear, and I totally agree with the rest of what you said!

 

[Mike F]

I have in fact got hold of a second pair of HD660S and have another pair coming on Monday, just to check for consistency and to make sure that mine are as they should be. The second pair sound identical. Let’s see what the third pair sound like on Monday.!

Well, OK, not quite identical...... There was a very small but consistently identifiable difference, but it was no more than could be attributed to differences in pads (they were in visibly different states of compression) or a slightly different clamping force. It wasn’t a difference that most people would have noticed, but it was there.
I strongly suspect that no two supposedly identical headphones are actually truly identical, but that’s just in the nature of manufactured products. There certainly wasn’t the sort of difference that would make one think that they were different versions of the same thing or that one was faulty in any way.

 

[Deftone]

All of which I agree with, except for the bit about ‘veil’ which is not something that I’ve ever found my later HD650’s to be (perhaps the first pre silver screen ones where?), but specifically, do you find the HD660S brighter or darker than the HD650 in the treble (in other words, does the HD660S have more or less treble presence compared to the other frequencies than the HD650)? The reason I ask is that I consistently find there to be less, which is what many of the FR graphs show (including the one from DIY-A-H) but I had always previously had the impression that the consensus of opinion was that the HD660S was a brighter sounding headphone with more treble presence.
I’m just trying to understand why it is that that is not what I’m hearing, nor is it what the graphs show, yet it seems to be the general impression. Of course the FR graph from SW did show more high frequency presence and they criticised it for being too bright for critical listening. That’s certainly not true of mine.

It sounds slightly brighter but that could be the treble clarity over the 650 giving the illusion it's brighter. On 660S I like that treble has its "sharpness" turned up a notch because cymbals sound a lot more like cymbals in real life, my brother is always hammering away on his drum kit and I used to think the 650 treble was too relaxed most of the time. It sounds fine with simple or slow music with few instruments or late night listening but some of the energy is lost, you have to sacrifice quite a lot to make everything sound super smooth.

 

[Deftone]

They just work as a better all rounder for me but I'm not listening to that much music these days, kinda got frustrated that it seems like all new rock and metal isn't as good as it used to be and there's only so many times you can listen to your old favourites. I mostly use them when gaming on the PlayStation 4 now.

 

[equalspeace]

Try some Big Thief. They’re Brooklyn band that do it well.

They just work as a better all rounder for me but I'm not listening to that much music these days, kinda got frustrated that it seems like all new rock and metal isn't as good as it used to be and there's only so many times you can listen to your old favourites. I mostly use them when gaming on the PlayStation 4 now.

 

[kman1211]

No, I think you’re absolutely right. That’s also what I hear anyway. I certainly don’t find the HD650 to be less detailed or revealing than the HD660S, they’re just different and both have great appeal. I think you definitely should get them both again!

Okay so it wasn't just me there. I never found the HD 650 less detailed or resolving than the HD 660 S. Biggest difference to me is the presentation and how they present dynamics to me. I do plan to, just got the HD 6XX yesterday, basically an HD 650 with the HD 660 S color scheme, I was expecting it to be midnight blue but it's black in color now it seems. The HD 6xx family is definitely neutral and tuned exceptionally well, they have always been a reference of mine for a neutral sound. Of my headphones I would say my T1.2 sounds the most like the HD 650 but with more upper treble energy and a slightly more relaxed upper midrange making it a bit less intimate overall, the T1.2 is the more resolving and detailed headphone and the T1.2 is more fluid sounding and effortless than the HD 650. It's not brighter than the HD 650, in fact the T1.2 is darker overall which I found surprising, neither sound harsh or sibilant. This is my initial impressions, also I can tell the HD 650 is somewhat better driven from my amp than the T1.2. I'll post full impressions and comparisons later in the HD 650 thread after the HD 6XX settles in fully.

Any tried the HD 660 S on the Asgard 3? I can tell right now the HD 6XX/650 is a really nice pairing on the amp, curious about the HD 660 S on it.

Well, OK, not quite identical...... There was a very small but consistently identifiable difference, but it was no more than could be attributed to differences in pads (they were in visibly different states of compression) or a slightly different clamping force. It wasn’t a difference that most people would have noticed, but it was there.
I strongly suspect that no two supposedly identical headphones are actually truly identical, but that’s just in the nature of manufactured products. There certainly wasn’t the sort of difference that would make one think that they were different versions of the same thing or that one was faulty in any way.

That's to expected, sometimes variation can be quite dramatic, but usually they are fairly close with subtle differences.

 

[Ichos]

This things are Killers , you need to spend a hell lot more to get better sound if any...
And oh boy they scale , they scale good...

 

[Mike F]

Okay so it wasn't just me there. I never found the HD 650 less detailed or resolving than the HD 660 S. Biggest difference to me is the presentation and how they present dynamics.

Absolutely! Listening now and comparing. There’s no doubt that to me the HD650 sounds ‘brighter’ and perhaps more detailed in the treble than the HD660S. BUT, the HD660S sounds cleaner and more dynamic, and, over the whole frequency range as opposed to just the treble, more resolving. Much as I love it, the HD650 sometimes can’t cope with complicated busy material and becomes ‘unclear’. The HD660S copes much better with that sort of material and resolves better in the upper bass/lower mids region. It also has a way of drawing you into the music while the HD650 can sound slightly distant by comparison. Absolutely loving having both!! This is on an iPhone and an iPad. I’ll have to listen again on my gear at home when I get there!

 

[kman1211]

Absolutely! Listening now and comparing. There’s no doubt that to me the HD650 sounds ‘brighter’ and perhaps more detailed in the treble than the HD660S. BUT, the HD660S sounds cleaner and more dynamic, and, over the whole frequency range as opposed to just the treble, more resolving. Much as I love it, the HD650 sometimes can’t cope with complicated busy material and becomes ‘unclear’. The HD660S copes much better with that sort of material and resolves better in the upper bass/lower mids region. It also has a way of drawing you into the music while the HD650 can sound slightly distant by comparison. Absolutely loving having both!! This is on an iPhone and an iPad. I’ll have to listen again on my gear at home when I get there!

Yeah, the HD 650 like any headphone does have some drawbacks, I find it an inferior headphone to my T1.2, it's not as seductive and musical as the T1 and while the T1 has somewhat brighter and more extended treble, it's treble is actually smoother and gentler on the ears. The T1.2 is less fatiguing to me. Despite finding the HD 650 to have some benefits over the HD 660 S, the HD 660 S is actually my favorite HD 6 family headphone, it has an engagement factor the HD 650 or HD 600 doesn't. The HD 600 is really boring to me, the HD 650 is a bit sweet and musical sounding to my ears, and the HD 660 S draws me into the music the most. I like having different headphones, you get to see different strengths and weaknesses of each and they each draw you into the music in different ways, though I generally just stick with Beyer and Senn and sometimes branch out a bit to other brands. What iphone? Different ones do sound different, I have an 11 Pro Max which sounds better and smoother than the 7 I had.

 

[Mike F]

We seem to agree in our assessment of the HD660S vs HD650! Believe it or not I’m still on a 6S. Was thinking of changing to an X soon.