Sennheiser HD660S... Finally a successor for the HD650?
Feb 21, 2018 at 11:14 AM Post #2,312 of 9,629
It's interesting that a lot of the guys posting in this thread joined head-fi in the early 2000's.

For the exact same reason you mentioned .....

I don't think it would be possible today for a headphone to develop the kind of dedicated following that the HD600/650 have enjoyed. .......

Our interest have been piqued on a replacement for an older classic...at least for those who were around then...
"The King is Dead, long live the King!"
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM Post #2,313 of 9,629
You all forgot Audio Technica before their push for the masses. I always liked Sennheiser, AKG,Sony,Beyer Dynamic as well as they all had there house sound. Having really liked my HD650's only to be wowed by the HD700 my interest is rather piqued by this new offering. (Must resist) as have recenctly bought two HiFiMan headphones
 
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Feb 21, 2018 at 12:24 PM Post #2,314 of 9,629
You all forgot Audio Technica before ..........

And my first serious foray in the early 70s.... the sweat inducing, skull crusher...Koss Pro 4AA ... : )
Screen Shot 2018-02-21 at 12.17.36 PM.png
But I regress...back to the light and airy 660S.
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 2:49 PM Post #2,315 of 9,629
As for stick in mud 600/650 diehards.......

Well, that could have been directed at me, I suppose, and given my contributions to this thread so far, understandably so. Given that, I feel some explanation might be in order........

Contrary to any impression that I might have given, I'm involved in this thread not because I want to be negative about the HD 660 S, but because I'm interested in it.
I'm a professional musician and have had a lifelong passion for audio. The fact is that I've had Sennheiser headphones all my life, starting with my first pair of hp's ever - HD 420 which I had in my teens, right through a whole line including the HD 560 Ovation II, 580 Precision, HD 600, HD 650 and HD 800. I even have the HDVD800! I could almost be accused of being a Sennheiser fanboy. The only other headphones which I have (and have ever owned) are some Sony professional closed back models (MDR-7509HD and MDR-7520) which I use when I'm recording for tracking, and also sometimes for casual listening from my iPhone.

Given that history the natural thing to do would be to order the HD 660 S without a second thought. But something has changed; the whole headphone market. There have been some very good posts recently on this subject (from donlin and others) and, as you've gathered, I'm also from that time and generation that well remember when the market was small, headphones a minority interest, and any new headphone release eagerly anticipated. Nowadays it's hard to keep up with the pace! The positive and negative aspects of this are something which have been discussed already, but unfortunately (and possibly incorrectly) I suspect that Sennheiser (and it would be quite understandable) has somewhat joined the rabble in the race to produce new hp's at an ever increasing rate. The fact that The HD 660 S seems to have the driver from the (relatively unpopular) HD 700 in an adapted HD 6XX frame, marketed with the now seemingly obligatory 'S' suffix (S, for what?), 'The legend continues' and 'Hi-Res' printed on the box smacks of...... well, I've said it all previously, so no need to reiterate.

But the real reason that I haven't simply pulled the trigger and sat eagerly awaiting the arrival of my latest headphone from Sennheiser, is that I'm genuinely not sure that I would like it. After the HD 650 came the fantastic, but arguably seriously flawed HD 800, followed by the widely unpopular HD 700, followed by the HD 800 S which was an unashamed attempt by Sennheiser to fix the HD 800's widely discussed problems (the first time that Sennheiser had done such a thing) followed now by the HD 660 S, which I suspect, at least in part, is an attempt to finally rid themselves of the 'Sennheiser Veil' criticism.
Add on top of this a very bad review from Tyll Hertsens and I'm (against my natural inclinations) not very tempted. Let me just say a few words about Tyll's review. I would not make his, or anyone else's, review the sole basis of a purchase decision. I don't even always agree with him, in fact I own and like a headphone which he thought was so bad that he didn't even give it a review! (the Sony MDR-7520). I know many pro musicians and producers who love this headphone and many people even use it for mixing! So, I don't take Tyll's word as the law. However, having read many of his reviews and having heard many of the phones which have been the subject of those reviews I feel that I have a good idea of where he is coming from, and as such his review of the HD 660 S has me concerned, especially with regard to the issue of it having a grainy sound.

I'm sure that you must all be wondering why I don't just buy it and find out for myself! Well, I might just do that, but I really don't like buying a headphone knowing that I will probably want to return it. But also, there's another reason why I don't think I'll like the HD 660 S, and this is the reason (finally!) for this post. I would be genuinely grateful for your collective help here! I would really appreciate it if those of you who have (or at least have a very good memory of) the HD 600, HD 650 and the HD 660 S, could tell me whether the HD 660 S is brighter sounding than the HD 600 and as detailed (resolving) than the HD 650?
Let me explain. I'm one of those people who prefer the HD 650 to the HD 600, and I not only prefer it's sound signature but think that it's a genuinely better headphone. To me the HD 650 is not only more natural sounding than the HD 600 (which is admittedly more neutral) but is also more resolving of detail, has better mids and better soundstage. In short the HD 650 is darker and smoother, but more resolving. Although it's a great headphone the HD 600 for me is a bit too bright and the upper mids a little to forward. This adds up to making the HD 650 more tonally accurate than the HD 600, and for me tonal accuracy (followed closely by resolution) is the most important aspect of a headphones sound. So, if the HD 660 S is tonally even brighter than the HD 600, and at the same time isn't (appreciably) more resolving of detail (not to be confused will treble sparkle) than the HD 650, then I'm petty sure that I can comfortably pass.

These things have probably been discussed, at least indirectly, before, but I would really appreciate your collective input on these specific points. For information I'm using the HD 650's in a few different situations, but primarily balanced from the HDVD800.

Sorry for the long post everyone. Barring responses to any replies that it get to this post, it will probably be my last in this thread - unless I end up getting the HD 660 S and come back to give some impressions. Thank you in advance!
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 3:13 PM Post #2,316 of 9,629
Well, that could have been directed at me, I suppose, and given my contributions to this thread so far, understandably so. Given that, I feel some explanation might be in order........

Contrary to any impression that I might have given, I'm involved in this thread not because I want to be negative about the HD 660 S, but because I'm interested in it.
I'm a professional musician and have had a lifelong passion for audio. The fact is that I've had Sennheiser headphones all my life, starting with my first pair of hp's ever - HD 420 which I had in my teens, right through a whole line including the HD 560 Ovation II, 580 Precision, HD 600, HD 650 and HD 800. I even have the HDVD800! I could almost be accused of being a Sennheiser fanboy. The only other headphones which I have (and have ever owned) are some Sony professional closed back models (MDR-7509HD and MDR-7520) which I use when I'm recording for tracking, and also sometimes for casual listening from my iPhone.

Given that history the natural thing to do would be to order the HD 660 S without a second thought. But something has changed; the whole headphone market. There have been some very good posts recently on this subject (from donlin and others) and, as you've gathered, I'm also from that time and generation that well remember when the market was small, headphones a minority interest, and any new headphone release eagerly anticipated. Nowadays it's hard to keep up with the pace! The positive and negative aspects of this are something which have been discussed already, but unfortunately (and possibly incorrectly) I suspect that Sennheiser (and it would be quite understandable) has somewhat joined the rabble in the race to produce new hp's at an ever increasing rate. The fact that The HD 660 S seems to have the driver from the (relatively unpopular) HD 700 in an adapted HD 6XX frame, marketed with the now seemingly obligatory 'S' suffix (S, for what?), 'The legend continues' and 'Hi-Res' printed on the box smacks of...... well, I've said it all previously, so no need to reiterate.

But the real reason that I haven't simply pulled the trigger and sat eagerly awaiting the arrival of my latest headphone from Sennheiser, is that I'm genuinely not sure that I would like it. After the HD 650 came the fantastic, but arguably seriously flawed HD 800, followed by the widely unpopular HD 700, followed by the HD 800 S which was an unashamed attempt by Sennheiser to fix the HD 800's widely discussed problems (the first time that Sennheiser had done such a thing) followed now by the HD 660 S, which I suspect, at least in part, is an attempt to finally rid themselves of the 'Sennheiser Veil' criticism.
Add on top of this a very bad review from Tyll Hertsens and I'm (against my natural inclinations) not very tempted. Let me just say a few words about Tyll's review. I would not make his, or anyone else's, review the sole basis of a purchase decision. I don't even always agree with him, in fact I own and like a headphone which he thought was so bad that he didn't even give it a review! (the Sony MDR-7520). I know many pro musicians and producers who love this headphone and many people even use it for mixing! So, I don't take Tyll's word as the law. However, having read many of his reviews and having heard many of the phones which have been the subject of those reviews I feel that I have a good idea of where he is coming from, and as such his review of the HD 660 S has me concerned, especially with regard to the issue of it having a grainy sound.

I'm sure that you must all be wondering why I don't just buy it and find out for myself! Well, I might just do that, but I really don't like buying a headphone knowing that I will probably want to return it. But also, there's another reason why I don't think I'll like the HD 660 S, and this is the reason (finally!) for this post. I would be genuinely grateful for your collective help here! I would really appreciate it if those of you who have (or at least have a very good memory of) the HD 600, HD 650 and the HD 660 S, could tell me whether the HD 660 S is brighter sounding than the HD 600 and as detailed (resolving) than the HD 650?
Let me explain. I'm one of those people who prefer the HD 650 to the HD 600, and I not only prefer it's sound signature but think that it's a genuinely better headphone. To me the HD 650 is not only more natural sounding than the HD 600 (which is admittedly more neutral) but is also more resolving of detail, has better mids and better soundstage. In short the HD 650 is darker and smoother, but more resolving. Although it's a great headphone the HD 600 for me is a bit too bright and the upper mids a little to forward. This adds up to making the HD 650 more tonally accurate than the HD 600, and for me tonal accuracy (followed closely by resolution) is the most important aspect of a headphones sound. So, if the HD 660 S is tonally even brighter than the HD 600, and at the same time isn't (appreciably) more resolving of detail (not to be confused will treble sparkle) than the HD 650, then I'm petty sure that I can comfortably pass.

These things have probably been discussed, at least indirectly, before, but I would really appreciate your collective input on these specific points. For information I'm using the HD 650's in a few different situations, but primarily balanced from the HDVD800.

Sorry for the long post everyone. Barring responses to any replies that it get to this post, it will probably be my last in this thread - unless I end up getting the HD 660 S and come back to give some impressions. Thank you in advance!

I will not try to answer you, just because me being a non native English speaker. I simply cannot express what I would like to do. I let Rob do that, I can only second his findings.
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 3:45 PM Post #2,317 of 9,629
Well, that could have been directed at me,

Hi Mike

Not at all, totally respect your point of view.

I believe for folks who have come to appreciate and expect the 600/650s classic laid back signature… the 660s could be a hard sell to say the least, I believe that was the case with Tyll.
They’ve become a reference point and though as I’ve mentioned they’ve come and gone in my system a few times it’s solely due to my own personal preferences that they didn’t hang around…and in that light for “me” the 660s are indeed a much appreciated change.
Sorry my “Stick in Mud”
("As for stick in mud 600/650 diehards the answer is not totally apparent as it comes down to preferences, music, listening habits etc, etc.")
was not meant to be derogatory comment at all but only to point out that once we find a sound signature that is to our liking it’s fairly hard to change, which is absolutely totally fine .....Not to sure how many pubs have tried to serve me an alternative to my Guinness without success : )

Now having said that I had a trepidation that the 660s were, even after all the hype of possibly utlitizing the 700 driver, just another 600/650. lol
 
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Feb 21, 2018 at 4:01 PM Post #2,318 of 9,629
......... unless I end up getting the HD 660 S and come back to give some impressions. Thank you in advance!

If you get a chance definitely give them a try....you may be surprised. Even though they have abandoned the 650s darker signature, forget about the 700 driver... I find them extremely easy on the ears and very musical...and IMHO to quote "but is also more resolving of detail, has better mids and better soundstage"....and excellent for long term listening.
 
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Feb 21, 2018 at 4:05 PM Post #2,319 of 9,629
Hi Mike

Not at all, totally respect your point of view.

I believe for folks who have come to appreciate and expect the 600/650s classic laid back signature… the 660s would be a hard sell to say the least, I believe that was the case with Tyll.
They’ve become a reference point and though as I’ve mentioned they’ve come and gone in my system a few times it’s solely due to my own personal preferences that they didn’t hang around…and in that light for “me” the 660s are indeed a much appreciated change.
Sorry “Stick in Mud” was not meant to be derogatory comment but only to point out that once we find a sound signature that is to our liking it’s fairly hard to change, which is absolutely totally fine .....Not to sure how many pubs have tried to serve me an alternative to my Guinness without success : )

Now having said that I had a trepidation that the 660s were, even after all the hype of possibly utlitizing the 700 driver, just another 600/660. lol

Thanks for the reply, Rob - much appreciated. I know that I will only really know what I think of the HD 660 S if and when I get to hear it for myself, but for now you've helped (with going into any details! :wink: ) to answer my questions. And don't worry, I didn't take you comments at all personally(!) and as I said, even if they had been directed at me they were probably justified!

The highlighted sentence made me laugh! Have you ever drunk Guinness in Dublin? It's a whole different experience. Much smoother and creamier but at the same time more complex in taste. A bit like an HD 650 compared to an HD 660 S, maybe? :L3000::beyersmile::beerchug:
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 5:48 PM Post #2,324 of 9,629
Well, that could have been directed at me, I suppose, and given my contributions to this thread so far, understandably so. Given that, I feel some explanation might be in order........

Contrary to any impression that I might have given, I'm involved in this thread not because I want to be negative about the HD 660 S, but because I'm interested in it.
I'm a professional musician and have had a lifelong passion for audio. The fact is that I've had Sennheiser headphones all my life, starting with my first pair of hp's ever - HD 420 which I had in my teens, right through a whole line including the HD 560 Ovation II, 580 Precision, HD 600, HD 650 and HD 800. I even have the HDVD800! I could almost be accused of being a Sennheiser fanboy. The only other headphones which I have (and have ever owned) are some Sony professional closed back models (MDR-7509HD and MDR-7520) which I use when I'm recording for tracking, and also sometimes for casual listening from my iPhone.

Given that history the natural thing to do would be to order the HD 660 S without a second thought. But something has changed; the whole headphone market. There have been some very good posts recently on this subject (from donlin and others) and, as you've gathered, I'm also from that time and generation that well remember when the market was small, headphones a minority interest, and any new headphone release eagerly anticipated. Nowadays it's hard to keep up with the pace! The positive and negative aspects of this are something which have been discussed already, but unfortunately (and possibly incorrectly) I suspect that Sennheiser (and it would be quite understandable) has somewhat joined the rabble in the race to produce new hp's at an ever increasing rate. The fact that The HD 660 S seems to have the driver from the (relatively unpopular) HD 700 in an adapted HD 6XX frame, marketed with the now seemingly obligatory 'S' suffix (S, for what?), 'The legend continues' and 'Hi-Res' printed on the box smacks of...... well, I've said it all previously, so no need to reiterate.

But the real reason that I haven't simply pulled the trigger and sat eagerly awaiting the arrival of my latest headphone from Sennheiser, is that I'm genuinely not sure that I would like it. After the HD 650 came the fantastic, but arguably seriously flawed HD 800, followed by the widely unpopular HD 700, followed by the HD 800 S which was an unashamed attempt by Sennheiser to fix the HD 800's widely discussed problems (the first time that Sennheiser had done such a thing) followed now by the HD 660 S, which I suspect, at least in part, is an attempt to finally rid themselves of the 'Sennheiser Veil' criticism.
Add on top of this a very bad review from Tyll Hertsens and I'm (against my natural inclinations) not very tempted. Let me just say a few words about Tyll's review. I would not make his, or anyone else's, review the sole basis of a purchase decision. I don't even always agree with him, in fact I own and like a headphone which he thought was so bad that he didn't even give it a review! (the Sony MDR-7520). I know many pro musicians and producers who love this headphone and many people even use it for mixing! So, I don't take Tyll's word as the law. However, having read many of his reviews and having heard many of the phones which have been the subject of those reviews I feel that I have a good idea of where he is coming from, and as such his review of the HD 660 S has me concerned, especially with regard to the issue of it having a grainy sound.

I'm sure that you must all be wondering why I don't just buy it and find out for myself! Well, I might just do that, but I really don't like buying a headphone knowing that I will probably want to return it. But also, there's another reason why I don't think I'll like the HD 660 S, and this is the reason (finally!) for this post. I would be genuinely grateful for your collective help here! I would really appreciate it if those of you who have (or at least have a very good memory of) the HD 600, HD 650 and the HD 660 S, could tell me whether the HD 660 S is brighter sounding than the HD 600 and as detailed (resolving) than the HD 650?
Let me explain. I'm one of those people who prefer the HD 650 to the HD 600, and I not only prefer it's sound signature but think that it's a genuinely better headphone. To me the HD 650 is not only more natural sounding than the HD 600 (which is admittedly more neutral) but is also more resolving of detail, has better mids and better soundstage. In short the HD 650 is darker and smoother, but more resolving. Although it's a great headphone the HD 600 for me is a bit too bright and the upper mids a little to forward. This adds up to making the HD 650 more tonally accurate than the HD 600, and for me tonal accuracy (followed closely by resolution) is the most important aspect of a headphones sound. So, if the HD 660 S is tonally even brighter than the HD 600, and at the same time isn't (appreciably) more resolving of detail (not to be confused will treble sparkle) than the HD 650, then I'm petty sure that I can comfortably pass.

These things have probably been discussed, at least indirectly, before, but I would really appreciate your collective input on these specific points. For information I'm using the HD 650's in a few different situations, but primarily balanced from the HDVD800.

Sorry for the long post everyone. Barring responses to any replies that it get to this post, it will probably be my last in this thread - unless I end up getting the HD 660 S and come back to give some impressions. Thank you in advance!
Let me try to respond as someone who also prefers the HD650 to the 600 and has been a tireless supporter of the HD650 as a better headphone than just about every more expensive phone that I’ve owned over the years (and it has been many from all the hot companies). Brighter can have a negative connotation. To me the HD800s is bright but the 660s is not. The 660s definitely has more treble energy than the 650 but for me in a very good way that improves the sound by making it more natural. There is no issue with vocal sibilance which I really dislike. I dont know if the 660s has more resolution. It seems to have better spacial definition, bass definition and impact with no single aspect drawing attention. It has true midrange magic that is amazingly natural. The soundstage is not especially wide but the images are large which I find very involving.
Regarding Tyll’s review, I have a lot of respect for him but the charges of graininess and lack of resolution are hard to understand.
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 6:22 PM Post #2,325 of 9,629
.......
Regarding Tyll’s review, I have a lot of respect for him but the charges of graininess and lack of resolution are hard to understand.

Yep..sadly once perceived "grain" got in his way the review went south, but up until that point .....
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-660-s-over-ear-open-headphones
"Sound Quality
On a gross level the HD 660 S sound is similar to the HD 600 and 650. Zooming in a little closer I'd characterize the HD 650 as the warmest of the bunch and the HD 660 S the brighter of the trio. Overall, I'd characterize the HD 660 S as a little lean.


To my ears this comes from two things: The HD 660 S has less of a broad upper-bass centered hump it's virtually flat from 100Hz to 1kHz, and the bass falls off gradually below 100Hz. But I also hear a more forward presence region from 1kHz to 3kHz. To my ears the HD 650 (in stock form) does warrant the "veil" designation; the HD 600 a little; and the HD 660 S not hardly at all.

Imaging on the HD 660S does appear to be a bit deeper and wider, but it's mostly quite like the other two headphones, which to my ears is good reasonably wide, and not particularly deep. The HD 660 S also appears to have more impact. You'll notice I used the word "appear" in both those descriptions. There's a reason for that...

The biggest difference I hear when switching from the HD 660 S to one of the other two, and I heard it immediately, is the fairly significant sense of a smoother and more refined sound of the previous cans. Switching back to the HD 660 S I hear it as grainy more more edgy in comparison. I'm quite saddened by this"


We all know Tyll does not appreciate anything approaching edginess but for such a replacement for a monumental phone he should really revisit them...maybe he'll hear them the same way, maybe not...but I just feel he dismissed the 660S too prematurely.... the brains a funny thing.
It should also maybe be pointed out that like the HD700 before it , contrary to popular opinion, there were/are way more positive reviews than negative. So????
 
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