[d1spatch]

I am also curious about the 660S and the DT1990. I use Yamaha MT220s right now with Sonarworks plugin to mix and master, and my mixes translate pretty well. I am looking to add an open back headphone though, and these two are the most intriguing to me.

But perhaps the HD600/650 would be good choices as well? If it were Jazz/Rock/Pop I'd go with the 600s, but I also do a lot of EDM so I need good bass.

I feel like the tighter bass response of the 660s would be helpful, but it is hard for me to say without having heard the 600 or 650.

 

[Beagle]

I believe it's only the HD 580 Jubilee that had carbon fiber or at least a carbon fiber appearance.

I know the 600 was carbon fiber and I thought the 650 was also, but I might be wrong there.

 

[Bengkia369]

My HD660S is about 50 hours now and it sounding better and better, the harsh treble is gone, and the clarity does improve quite a lot from a brand new unit.
Using a humble AK240 as source with Cypher Labs Trio portable tube amp, sounds really good comparable to many high end headphones many times it's price!

 

[kman1211]

My HD660S is about 50 hours now and it sounding better and better, the harsh treble is gone, and the clarity does improve quite a lot from a brand new unit.
Using a humble AK240 as source with Cypher Labs Trio portable tube amp, sounds really good comparable to many high end headphones many times it's price!

The slight harshness and hardness to the sound goes away with some break-in in my experience as well. It's like the HD 600 and HD 650, takes a bit of time for the sound to fully settle. I'm so used to Beyers it's almost too smooth.

 

[Hifivoice]

May want to check this thread....

I know all this work, but again, it does not result in a common agreed measurement setup. Just as a thought experiment: "why don't we measure loudspeakers with in-head/in-ear measurement techniques"?

The assumption that you can characterise a loudspeaker or headphone with a single measurement fully is wrong. E.g., the directivity of a speaker already makes that the (on-axis) frequency response looks different from its power response. For headphones, the literature is full of hypotheses how a headphone curve should look like.

If you know the conditions of a measurement, and a measurement is repeatable and hence reliable, it is useable within its own context. E.g., to compare two headphones with regard to their frequency response, it is less important to know its exact magnitude at all frequencies (which by definition is already debatable, as no absolute agreed reference exists). It is more important to do the measurements in the same conditions (same amplifier, and test the effect of small measurement perturbations).

If you look at the following measurements, they are all different:

source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...sor-for-the-hd650.862308/page-8#post-13786777

source: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd660s/

source: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/embarrassment-riches (grey is raw measurement)

source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...or-for-the-hd650.862308/page-98#post-13909388

source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...or-for-the-hd650.862308/page-98#post-13909388

So which curve describes the sound characteristics by its own? Answer: none!

My own measurements help me to correlate what I hear, by making a correlation to the relative shortage or excess in certain frequency ranges. That and only that was the purpose of my exercise.

 

[Avean]

Is the soundstage better on these than the 650's? Worth an upgrade from 650?

 

[DavidA]

Is the soundstage better on these than the 650's? Worth an upgrade from 650?

If you read back a few pages many have posted their impressions on your question and you might even want to start with the first page of this thread. If you are to lazy to read then from what I've read is that they seem to be just a little better, I'll be listening to one tomorrow so I'll have my questions about these headphones answered.

As for "worth an upgrade from HD650" only you can say.

 

[Avean]

If you read back a few pages many have posted their impressions on your question and you might even want to start with the first page of this thread. If you are to lazy to read then from what I've read is that they seem to be just a little better, I'll be listening to one tomorrow so I'll have my questions about these headphones answered.

As for "worth an upgrade from HD650" only you can say.

Sorry for that so many pages and started reading from page one through 2 but couldnt find any information. Thanks for your answer.

 

[DavidA]

Sorry for that so many pages and started reading from page one through 2 but couldnt find any information. Thanks for your answer.

I know there is search function but with this new interface it doesn't seem to work for me, even had some issues with notifications for threads that I follow but it got cleared up by a admin person after I asked but haven't found a solution to the search one yet. If English is not your first language then I can see how reading through all the pages would be a chore, sorry for giving a very short answer.

 

[king conan]

Only 48h with the HD 660s with about 3 hours of listening. Too soon to give a serious opinion. But the first impression is good but with one caveat.

I have owned HD 650, HD 700, phidelio X2, AKG KXX and Sony MDR Z7 with several stationary sources.

At some point of my life I was tired of being stationary listening to hi-fi music and I've been enjoying music mainly from my LG phones with Quad DAC and IEM. Right now Asian LG G6.

I was curious to try again big headphones at least to use at home but with the convenience of using my mobile phone.

During summer I had HD 700 and the 150ohmn impedance was great. I could power them to good levels just fine. But I tried hard to like them. It was impossible, I could not live with that drilling treble.

As soon the HD 660S was announced with same impedance I thought this may be what I was looking for.

I waited a bit longer for a lower price in my Amazon and now I have them.

My phone in high impedance mode drives it very well. About 80% of the volume is the max I can reach safely for my ears.

I can feel great detail in every kind of music I try. But the "drilling" treble is there... Not so terrible like with HD 700. My biggest doubt right now if it's true that after 50 hours or so will improve or is the brain who adapts.

Regards to everyone.

 

[pietcux]

Only 48h with the HD 660s with about 3 hours of listening. Too soon to give a serious opinion. But the first impression is good but with one caveat.

I have owned HD 650, HD 700, phidelio X2, AKG KXX and Sony MDR Z7 with several stationary sources.

At some point of my life I was tired of being stationary listening to hi-fi music and I've been enjoying music mainly from my LG phones with Quad DAC and IEM. Right now Asian LG G6.

I was curious to try again big headphones at least to use at home but with the convenience of using my mobile phone.

During summer I had HD 700 and the 150ohmn impedance was great. I could power them to good levels just fine. But I tried hard to like them. It was impossible, I could not live with that drilling treble.

As soon the HD 660S was announced with same impedance I thought this may be what I was looking for.

I waited a bit longer for a lower price in my Amazon and now I have them.

My phone in high impedance mode drives it very well. About 80% of the volume is the max I can reach safely for my ears.

I can feel great detail in every kind of music I try. But the "drilling" treble is there... Not so terrible like with HD 700. My biggest doubt right now if it's true that after 50 hours or so will improve or is the brain who adapts.

Regards to everyone.

The treble of the HD660S is no problem for most of the music I listen to, but if you have lots of piercing treble sources like E-guitars or tormented cymbals in certain music, you need a can with recessed treble, like the SONY Z7 which you already know. The HD660S will improve it's smoothness over time, but it will not change completely. And maybe your source is only good, but not great.

 

[Rob80b]

I know all this work, but again, it does not result in a common agreed measurement setup. ............

So which curve describes the sound characteristics by its own? Answer: none!

My own measurements help me to correlate what I hear, by making a correlation to the relative shortage or excess in certain frequency ranges. That and only that was the purpose of my exercise.

I commend your efforts, obviously folks are working on some grand method to correlate observations with what we are hearing…..the graphs get thrown around but they are far from telling the whole story.

What I find most despairing in these forums, hobbies is that with the thousands of users we are sort of still left in the dark with how something may or should sound, we gather a general inclination of what to expect by familiarizing ourselves with specific reviewers, even if we agree or disagree with their findings but at least we have “some sort of references”, which I see is exactly what you are proceeding to do, so kudos.

Without having to force ourselves with trying to read between the lines it would be nice to have some direct feedback on these forums from the manufacturer on their development and goals pertaining to a new product.

This especially holds true for an offering, which has been heralded to maybe replace a company’s stalwart (s), in this case the long standing 600/650s. The HD700 IMHO was a break through in development but too much a departure for those enamored with an older design and its (sound) comfort factor. It’ll be 50 years since Sennheiser released their first open back headphone and I picked up my first pair of HD414 not too long after but after all this time sometimes I get the impression that even Sennheiser and many other long standing manufactures, AKG etc., keep on re-inventing the wheel…. seriously …with decades of R&R… some one, somewhere must have an inkling of what it takes to develop a neutral emanating transducer (my preference) that we can all sort of agree on being such (not speaking of personal preferences)...and not for thousands of dollars…or is that we can never agree on what it is due to personnel preferences and lack of some accepted standard and method of measurement.

I’m just a layman on the sidelines but I still hold some hope for the 660s, mixed reviews are always to be expected (we may even have Tyll’s before the weekend) and I’ll give my 2 cents worth, if and when they ever arrive, lol…

With hundreds of different sounding headphones to choose from today, I’m far from expecting neither something perfect nor hopefully something to replace them but at least the 660s should be a refreshing update tonally of the "tried and true" but somewhat IMHO the long in tooth 600/650s …that is if the R&R department have not been sleeping these last few decades…... : (

 

[XERO1]

I know the 600 was carbon fiber and I thought the 650 was also, but I might be wrong there.

The HD 580 Jubilee had a printed-on faux 'carbon fiber' finish and the HD 600 had a printed-on faux 'granite' finish.
None of the 580 or 600 series headphones have ever had any parts made of carbon fiber.

 

[Rob80b]

The HD 580 Jubilee had a printed-on faux 'carbon fiber' finish and the HD 600 had a printed-on faux 'granite' finish.
None of the 580 or 600 series headphones have ever had any parts made of carbon fiber.

Yep..all kinds of rumors abound ...the best description I could find was "thermoplastic carbon fiber body parts" but even that could be refuted...more likely "carbon fiber finishing"
...the weave as you mentioned is only a painted design afaik.... : )


As I mentioned previously........

..............this mis-info basically came from Wes Phillips (RIP) HD600 review in Stereophile back in 1998.

"The only visible differences between them and the Jubilees are the finish of the carbon fiber, which is marbled as opposed to the earlier model's weave pattern"

...........

 

[Rob80b]

I know the 600 was carbon fiber and I thought the 650 was also, but I might be wrong there.

Slightly off OT but searching though old threads it appears we both need to get a life..... lol.

From the fall of 2006
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/doe...e-or-different-drivers-as-the-580-600.198710/

and here we are again over a decade later still discussing ...variations of the same line. : )

I liked rediscovering this little tidbit though....
http://www.onhifi.com/product/sennheiser_hd650.htm
"engineer Axel Grell found that when the 'phones measured flat, they sounded harsh. So he very carefully tuned the response to have notches at 5kHz and 16kHz. These notches, speculates headphone maker-designer Tyll Hertsens, of HeadRoom, mimic the ridge notches of the concha -- the largest and deepest concavity of the external ear, or pinna -- which help you determine the azimuth and elevation of sounds."

....has this been continued in the 660s?