[ac500]

Actually quite the contrary:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
 

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Lyr w/ Siemens E88cc A-Frame and Bifrost, very very close.  The HE-500's were way too hot for me (treble), tube rolling could have changed that but I liked what the tubes and lyr could do, the HD650's matched the best.  Not dark at all.  The HD650's do have a slightly wider soundstage but the depth, the Siemen's really helped with that.  The HE-500's are not as transparent and remain fairly the same in that area from NFB-10SE to Lyr.  Imo, a minor upgrade, if not a sidegrade.  This is with my setup. 

Whist I've never suffocated on the so called veil, I do find the airiness, smooth and slightly treble tilted presentation of the Bifrost a very good match for the HD650. It helps resolve a greater sense of depth, complimenting the inherent soundstage width.
 
I've probably raised eyebrows when posting about my general preference for the HD650 over the LCD-2. The LCD-2 does have a level of clarity and realism the HD650 simply cannot replicate, but there's an incoherence to the way it images that rears its head at times. I do find the edge of the LCD-2 soundstage to be less constrained, but the issue for me is that instruments originate from within its large cups, with the musicians on top of you and in your personal space. To me the Senn's left and right audio queues more often seem to originate from outside the headspace, beyond the transducers. It's like being on a small well lit stage where everyone is packed in like sardines, versus a dark hazy one, where there's at least some elbow room.
 
Maybe the HD650's more compressed depth gives this false sense of width. It doesn't change the fact that I've looked over my shoulder more times though, looking for the source of a sound that was in actuality a part of the recording. Perhaps it's a limitation of my modest gear, but my point is that the HD650 is elevated more by the Bifrost and the gap is bridged somewhat between it and the LCD-2.
 
 

 

[Uchiya]

Forgot to mention, no dampness from sweat after a few hours!

 

[OldSkool]

Quote:

I got my HD650's not long ago but today I wanted to try without the foam. I just put a piece of my girlfriend's pantyhose instead. 
 
So far I like it better this way but I'll see down the road. If I decide to switch back it takes a minute so that really isn't an issue. 
 
I never really listened to guitar a lot but wow did Tommy Emmanuel sound incredible. Everything seems a little bit more detailed, female vocals are amazing. 
 
(Maybe it's all in my head...)

This. ^^^
 
All day long.
 

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

out of curiosity what is the upgrade path after the hd650s. i really like their sound, especially with the lower treble. also is there a closed can that has sound close to the hd650s? I tried to wear them at work and someone yelled at me saying i have speakers on my head, not headphones lol

The next Sennheiser upgrade from the HD 650 is the HD 700 and then HD 800.
 
There are no Sennheiser closed headphones with the quality of the HD 600/650 - I have pressured them over the years for top quality closed cans - I wait in hope.
 

 

[skeptic]

If you think no instrument reaches up beyond 10khz, you're quite wrong. What's the massive difficulty in understanding that harmonics are extremely important? Not necessarily harmonics either, but just high frequency details which will be smoothed over if the higher frequencies aren't relatively loud enough. It's easy to prove -- just take out a large amount of 10-20hz with an equalizer, and suddenly everything sounds less detailed and realistic. Is the treble still there? Yeah, but now that it's quieter everything sounds much much less detailed. Can you explain that with your theory of "nothing that high matters"? I can... because I can prove that tones that high DO matter.   As for the volume difference at 10-20hz, I can absolutely hear a big difference between my NFB12 and MacBook Air, the MBA sounding notably brighter and less veiled. Maybe the MBA is just bright, but facts are facts. Trust me, I really did NOT want to be hearing that my NFB12 sounded more veiled than my MBA, but that's what I heard. Placebo does not usually work in reverse like that, you know.   I could easily pass an ABX test with different treble magnitudes even without solid tones (especially without solid tones).

Please review this chart - you will see that it confirms exactly what I said about the difference between fundamental frequencies and harmonics, ie overtones.

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

Alternatively, this site provides similar info absent the yellow sections of the bar graph encompassing overtones: http://www.listenhear.co.uk/general_acoustics.htm

Please show me the authority on which you are relying in asserting that there are any instruments playing fundamental frequencies higher than 10khz.

For that matter, you totally misread and misquoted me. I never said overtones weren't import. I'm quite picky about realistic timbre. I just think anyone purporting to identify a 3db peak at 14khz or some such frequency, while listening to ordinary source material, and without using test tones or measuring equipment, is full of it.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[scoopbb]

I mean upgrade path in terms of similar sound. I don't care if its sennheiser or something else. 
 
from what i understand the hd800s do not sound anything like the 650s. 
 
Quote:

The next Sennheiser upgrade from the HD 650 is the HD 700 and then HD 800.
 
There are no Sennheiser closed headphones with the quality of the HD 600/650 - I have pressured them over the years for top quality closed cans - I wait in hope.
 

 

 

[WeggliNet]

Quote:

I mean upgrade path in terms of similar sound. I don't care if its sennheiser or something else. 
 
from what i understand the hd800s do not sound anything like the 650s. 
 


 

If you like the 650s sound and want to upgrade then try an LCD-2. The HD800 don't sound like an 650 and if you like pop music or something else than classic or instrumental go with an LCD-2 or HE-500. Of  course they are open... so maybe you should try the Monter Beats Pro... not bad for portable devices like smartphones.
 
 

 

[davidgotsa]

Are you saying that the Beats Pro are an upgrade coming from the HD650's?
 
Quote:

If you like the 650s sound and want to upgrade then try an LCD-2. The HD800 don't sound like an 650 and if you like pop music or something else than classic or instrumental go with an LCD-2 or HE-500. Of  course they are open... so maybe you should try the Monter Beats Pro... not bad for portable devices like smartphones.
 
 

 

 

[WeggliNet]

Quote:

Are you saying that the Beats Pro are an upgrade coming from the HD650's?
 


 

No of course not. I don't know what scoopbb is working but i can't walk around with some HD800s and an amp at work. But they are closed, easy to power, smaller and portable if your need to be mobile. High end headphones are not made for that imo.
 
 

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

from what i understand the hd800s do not sound anything like the 650s. 
 

Correct - the HD 800 are vastly superior and make the 650 sound horrible in comparison.
 
It's like comparing a £40 single malt with a standard blended whisky.

 

[idletime1213]

^
 
Horrible? That's a hyperbole if I've ever heard one.
 
Different flavors? Sure
Technically better? Yep
Will everybody like the HD800 better? Definitely not
Horrible? Lol no.

 

[Gwarmi]

 
 I still see the HD650 and HD800 as separate institutions - plenty of HD650 owners who cross over to complement
 their beloved with the HD800 but more often than not - that treble happy nature from the flagship keeps them
 away in droves. I see it time and time again.

 

[ac500]

I'm one of the rare people that appreciates the sound signature of both the HD650 and the HD800. I vastly prefer my HD800 though for the sound quality and slightly prefer it for sound signature, but I like the HD650 also especially for bad recordings. HOWEVER, since I am not religiously afraid of equalization, I find an equalized HD800 to be technically superior and still fairly warm sounding vs a HD650, so we'll see if I end up even needing my HD650 any more at all.
 
As far as raw technical sound fidelity, yes the HD650 sounds horrible in comparison to the HD800. It's not bad at all by any means obviously, but relatively the HD800 is so far technically superior, the HD650 is hard to return to quite honestly. If you really think the HD800 is not a considerable step up in sound quality, then I'm glad you're able to convince yourself to live a happy lie .
 
But in terms of sound signature, then that's entirely a preference thing.

 

[ac500]

As for scoopbb's question, the HD700/HD800 are not even close to the HD650 sound signature, and as far as we know it does not look like Sennheiser will be returning to a laid back sound. They're going for the hi-fi gold standard - neutrality. The HD700 is a slightly treble reduced HD800 which is more or less neutral (nobody can really agree on what headphone is neutral anyway so I say more or less).
 
The next upgrade from the HD650 is the Audeze LCD2. It is a big step up in quality, very very similar sound signature, but also very heavy and relatively uncomfortable.