[Satellite_6]

I don't understand how any headphone could make the HD 650's sound horrible in comparison. :S It's probably your crappy source. . . 
 
I've read bad things about audio-gd gear from both sides of the subj/obj argument.
 
i.e. http://www.headfonia.com/no-music-audio-gd-nfb-12/
 
In my limited experience headphones sound more similar with a source that doesn't interfere as much. Just sayin'

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

I don't understand how any headphone could make the HD 650's sound horrible in comparison. :S It's probably your crappy source. . . 
 

 

 
I said horrible in comparison - not horrible headphones.
 
And the source was 24/96 master recordings, recorded with top-end microphones direct to digital with no compression, EQ or any messing, played through a Grace m902b.  As top end as could be.
 
And it looks like you have never had the chance to compare the HD 800 and HD 650 properly side-by-side with the same equipment.
 
I do own both the HD 800 and the HD 650 (and the HD 580 Jubilee, HD 580, HD 250 II, HD 250 I, HD 25-1, HD 430 and quite a few more.......
 
 
 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

I've probably raised eyebrows when posting about my general preference for the HD650 over the LCD-2. The LCD-2 does have a level of clarity and realism the HD650 simply cannot replicate, but there's an incoherence to the way it images that rears its head at times. I do find the edge of the LCD-2 soundstage to be less constrained, but the issue for me is that instruments originate from within its large cups, with the musicians on top of you and in your personal space. To me the Senn's left and right audio queues more often seem to originate from outside the headspace, beyond the transducers. It's like being on a small well lit stage where everyone is packed in like sardines, versus a dark hazy one, where there's at least some elbow room.

 
This is an interest post.  The T1 has the same presentation style as the HD650 (as you describe), and images really well, though I think this is in part due to it's treble peak.  Similar to how the HE-6 and LCD-3 image better than the LCD-2, treble extension & presence have a strong impact on imaging (perhaps because treble is where the "air" lives?) -- just a correlation I've observed.  Anyway, I recently went back and forth between the LCD-2 and T1 side-by-side.  I found the T1's presentation to be exactly as you describe above, but the LCD-2 had a much larger sonic wave, and as you say, it's less precise in it's "emanating point", but at the same time it makes for a very involving, non-HP like experience.  I can't say I know which presentation style I prefer.

 

[ac500]

Quote:

I don't understand how any headphone could make the HD 650's sound horrible in comparison. :S It's probably your crappy source. . . 

It's actually the opposite. The HD650 and HD800 both sound pretty bad with a bad source (macbook), but out of an NFB12 the HD800 leaps massively ahead of the HD650. I can only imagine how much better the HD800 would be with a better source. The only reason the NFB12 doesn't work well with the HD650 is its frequency response.

 

[davidgotsa]

I wouldn't say that the Hd650 sound "bad" without a good source. It obviously sounds better with a good source but even without one it sounds better than 98% of all headphones on the market. 
 
I found it pretty confusing when you, the ones who know more than newcomers like myself, say that many headphones absolutely need and amp and are worthless without one.
If it sounds "bad" to you it sounds wonderful to most people. 
 
Just my opinion...
Quote:

It's actually the opposite. The HD650 and HD800 both sound pretty bad with a bad source (macbook), but out of an NFB12 the HD800 leaps massively ahead of the HD650. I can only imagine how much better the HD800 would be with a better source. The only reason the NFB12 doesn't work well with the HD650 is its frequency response.

 

 

[juantendo8]

Quote:

I wouldn't say that the Hd650 sound "bad" without a good source. It obviously sounds better with a good source but even without one it sounds better than 98% of all headphones on the market. 
 
I found it pretty confusing when you, the ones who know more than newcomers like myself, say that many headphones absolutely need and amp and are worthless without one.
If it sounds "bad" to you it sounds wonderful to most people. 
 
Just my opinion...


 

Maybe you are just suffering from mild "ignorance is bliss" syndrome. If so, your are lucky. To be fair, the HD650 has one of those sounds that make you forget about technicalities and even the headphones themselves. They will sound much better "unamped" than the average music listeners "best." Once properly amped however, it is very difficult to go back. They turn into a whole different beast. (A much more agile and lithe one, yet still warm, fuzzy, and comforting 

)  
 
 

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Quote:

I've probably raised eyebrows when posting about my general preference for the HD650 over the LCD-2. The LCD-2 does have a level of clarity and realism the HD650 simply cannot replicate, but there's an incoherence to the way it images that rears its head at times. I do find the edge of the LCD-2 soundstage to be less constrained, but the issue for me is that instruments originate from within its large cups, with the musicians on top of you and in your personal space. To me the Senn's left and right audio queues more often seem to originate from outside the headspace, beyond the transducers. It's like being on a small well lit stage where everyone is packed in like sardines, versus a dark hazy one, where there's at least some elbow room.

 
This is an interest post.  The T1 has the same presentation style as the HD650 (as you describe), and images really well, though I think this is in part due to it's treble peak.  Similar to how the HE-6 and LCD-3 image better than the LCD-2, treble extension & presence have a strong impact on imaging (perhaps because treble is where the "air" lives?) -- just a correlation I've observed.  Anyway, I recently went back and forth between the LCD-2 and T1 side-by-side.  I found the T1's presentation to be exactly as you describe above, but the LCD-2 had a much larger sonic wave, and as you say, it's less precise in it's "emanating point", but at the same time it makes for a very involving, non-HP like experience.  I can't say I know which presentation style I prefer.

Is the T1 a refined HD650, with the natural tones and excellent bass rendition of the LCD-2? I've got to hear one if that's the case.

 

[davidgotsa]

You just said exactly what I said but I'm the one who's suffering from mild "ignorance is bliss"? Very logical. 
Quote:

Maybe you are just suffering from mild "ignorance is bliss" syndrome. If so, your are lucky. To be fair, the HD650 has one of those sounds that make you forget about technicalities and even the headphones themselves. They will sound much better "unamped" than the average music listeners "best." Once properly amped however, it is very difficult to go back. They turn into a whole different beast. (A much more agile and lithe one, yet still warm, fuzzy, and comforting 

)  
 
 

 

 

[juantendo8]

Quote:

You just said exactly what I said but I'm the one who's suffering from mild "ignorance is bliss"? Very logical. 


 

Sorry if I came off as accusatory or as if I was looking down upon you, I was just teasing. The truth is that once you have stepped into HD650 territory, you have definitely overstepped the threshold of ignorant audio bliss, otherwise we would be listening to our ibuds or our favorite rappers headphone.
 
On another note, while I believe that the HD650 certainly deserve to be amped well, we often lose perspective when we come from higher end headphones with stricter amping requirements. Suddenly everything unamped sounds horrible. The regular like "That HD650 is a giant mud blob unamped, that DT880 will pierce your ears through unamped. Even as far as claims that something like the KSC-75 is a pale shadow of itself without an amp. I think that I will take a step back and listen to all my headphones from my stock sound card today and see if I can get a better perspective on the issue.
 

 

[davidgotsa]

No, my bad. Of course you didn't mean to offend me, I tend to overreact. It's all good. 
 
Yea, that seems like a good idea. Please do come back and tell us what you think once you've listened to them unamped.
 
I've never tried any good amps but I certainly hope I will one day because if the HD650's sound "bad" to some of you unmapped, I can't even imagine what it's like with a good amp. 
Quote:

Sorry if I came off as accusatory or as if I was looking down upon you, I was just teasing. The truth is that once you have stepped into HD650 territory, you have definitely overstepped the threshold of ignorant audio bliss, otherwise we would be listening to our ibuds or our favorite rappers headphone.
 
On another note, while I believe that the HD650 certainly deserve to be amped well, we often lose perspective when we come from higher end headphones with stricter amping requirements. Suddenly everything unamped sounds horrible. The regular like "That HD650 is a giant mud blob unamped, that DT880 will pierce your ears through unamped. Even as far as claims that something like the KSC-75 is a pale shadow of itself without an amp. I think that I will take a step back and listen to all my headphones from my stock sound card today and see if I can get a better perspective on the issue.
 

 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

Is the T1 a refined HD650, with the natural tones and excellent bass rendition of the LCD-2? I've got to hear one if that's the case.

 
It shares some of the 650s qualities, like the presentation style you were talking about.  Even the general signature to a degree.  But there's a peak in the treble to my ears.  
 
Bass: nothing does bass like LCDs do, but the T1 is no slouch.  The most noticeable flaw to me with the T1s though is that treble peak.
 
Edit: These are just my initial impressions from a short listening session.  I'm curious to spend more time with them too.  And curious to try a pair of those modified peak-less HD800s.  

 

[yawny]

Hey all,
 
I just bought a used pair of HD650 along with a Fiio E17 amp as an upgrade from my 595. I'm currently waiting for them to arrive in the mail.
 
I'm a student, and therefore don't have the cash to try out all the different and expensive models that are being talked about, but i do enjoy reading what others have to say about their experiences with them, especially with how subjective audio can be.
 
I'm really looking forward to being blown away by these, even with my cheapie headphone amp.
 
Cheers.

 

[juantendo8]

Don't worry, I was blown away even using my slightly inferior E10. And also having the HD595 as a reference no less 

 

[yawny]

Quote:

Don't worry, I was blown away even using my slightly inferior E10. And also having the HD595 as a reference no less 

Good to hear! 

 I barely paid more for these than i did for my 595 and a friend (who i've converted to the dark side of audiophilia) is gonna buy my 595s. It was a deal that i couldn't pass up. Unfortunately, the E17 is on backorder, so it'll be awhile before i can test them with an amp.
 
I do, however, have an HT Omega Striker card in my PC and a Presonus TubePre lying around, though i don't know if either are suitable for amping these.

 

[MickeyVee]

Congrats! The HD650's with the E17 is a great starter combo.  As I was reading this thread, I was listening to tunes via my E17 and v-Moda M80's.. as soon as I saw your post, I went and got my HD650's and cranked it. Sweet! (I use the M80's when the wife is watching TV) You should really enjoy the combo.

 
Quote:

Hey all,
 
I just bought a used pair of HD650 along with a Fiio E17 amp as an upgrade from my 595. I'm currently waiting for them to arrive in the mail.
 
I'm a student, and therefore don't have the cash to try out all the different and expensive models that are being talked about, but i do enjoy reading what others have to say about their experiences with them, especially with how subjective audio can be.
 
I'm really looking forward to being blown away by these, even with my cheapie headphone amp.
 
Cheers.