[LugBug1]

Quote:

Hey, some folks apparently have life-changing experiences upon first exposure to really expensive aftermarket wires for their headphones, speakers, interconnects, whatever. One can be assured that those folks will mention it early and often on forums like this one. To the point where newbies take it as universally accepted common knowledge that any piece of gear absolutely must be "upgraded" with hundreds of dollars worth of wire in some form or another.

It is important for the equally large number of folks who consider the whole thing hogwash to frequently chime in with their own totally subjective impressions. If for no other reason to reassure the occasional newbie who finds the "common knowledge" around here a bit dodgy-sounding.

I think the fact that nearly all of the most respected headphone manufacturers are constantly improving their cables shows that it does improve the sound. If it didn't they would keep using cheap materials because we would still by them anyway. 
 
Anyways, unless you have tried and tested this it is pointless commenting. Arguing for arguing sake. 
 

 

[Brent Hutto]

No it's not pointless arguing. It's exactly as valuable as someone who "tested" and posted an OH MY GOD gushing comment about the enormous difference it makes. One could easily read most parts of this forum and conclude that everyone who gives a darn about their listening gear spends money on cable upgrades and hears huge differences. Or maybe they'd go read the angel on the head of pin stuff in the Sound Science section.

So once in a great while I post a comment saying that yes I care about good listening gear and no I do not and have not spend money on aftermarket wiring for that equipment. For every ten recommendation that say such stuff is an absolute requirement, there is one small voice saying no it is not. Better that that creating the wrong impression for newcomers.

I haven't jumped out of a 10th floor window or poured jet fuel in my car's gas tank but I know both of those are terrible ideas none the less...

 

[LugBug1]

 
Quote:

No it's not pointless arguing. It's exactly as valuable as someone who "tested" and posted an OH MY GOD gushing comment about the enormous difference it makes. One could easily read most parts of this forum and conclude that everyone who gives a darn about their listening gear spends money on cable upgrades and hears huge differences. Or maybe they'd go read the angel on the head of pin stuff in the Sound Science section.

So once in a great while I post a comment saying that yes I care about good listening gear and no I do not and have not spend money on aftermarket wiring for that equipment. For every ten recommendation that say such stuff is an absolute requirement, there is one small voice saying no it is not. Better that that creating the wrong impression for newcomers.

I haven't jumped out of a 10th floor window or poured jet fuel in my car's gas tank but I know both of those are terrible ideas none the less...

Well no-one on here is going to value your opinion unless you have tried or tested what you are arguing about. And.. if what you are saying is... if ten people say so and one doesnt then its "hogwash" mmm... Also that is one of the most ridiculous analogies I have read in along time ha ha. Upgrading your system is nowhere near as drastic as killing yourself or your car for that matter. (unless you electrocute yourself with homemade jobs) A simple cable replacement can be the most cost effective upgrade you can do and it is a lot cheaper than buyin new components. The results vary ofcourse, but in my experience sometimes the results can make you go "WOWZA!"  

  
 
If you want to argue about the pro's and cons of cables why don't you do it on an appropriate thread. I've been talking about my 650 upgrade... this is the 650 thread.

 

[Kevin Brown]

Cables: 2 converse thoughts:
 
I have the 600's and 650's now.  Through some prior reading here, I came across the mention, more than once, that the HD650 cable somewhat brightens up those headphones, whereas the HD600 cable is actually a better match for the HD600 because it's a "darker" cable.
 
I have tried the cable swap on my Senns (600 cable with the 650 and vice versa), and I'll be gosh darned if I don't hear that effect too.  Am I fooling myself?  Or could it be true?  I'm almost to the point of using the 600 cable with the 650's because while the HD650 isn't a bright headphone, there is some brightness there that I'd like to tame a little.
 
 
One more: the new fairly expensive AKG Q701 (very similar to the K701/K702) comes with the same cheapass cable the K240 Studio/Mk II does.  So if cables really did matter, why wouldn't AKG put a more expensive ("better") cable on the Q701?  Even in appearance only?
 

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 
I have tried the cable swap on my Senns (600 cable with the 650 and vice versa), and I'll be gosh darned if I don't hear that effect too.  Am I fooling myself?  Or could it be true?  I'm almost to the point of using the 600 cable with the 650's because while the HD650 isn't a bright headphone, there is some brightness there that I'd like to tame a little.
 
 
 

I think you're right that there is some brightness in the 650 (probably related to the treble peak that shows up on graphs), but I wonder if a new cable will fix it without rolling off the extreme treble, which doesn't need it. I'm interested in your experiences here because if it's beneficial the 600 cable could be a good investment. I'm currently using the Headphile Blacksilver cable and it clearly does sharpen up the 650's sound (though I'd say "sharpen" rather than "brighten", as one can be mistaken for the other and I don't believe a cable can actually add brightness).  
 
Be interested in any further observations on this subject.
 

 

[skeptic]

@LugBug: Thank you for the gracious response to my last post!  I got a good chuckle out of the Steven Hawkings reference

  Your move from a shoddy (perhaps partially defective?) power cable to a well insulated cable that is relatively modestly priced (by hifi standards) makes good sense to me - particularly if you think you are having RF interference issues.  It's the AC cables in the several hundred to several thousand dollar range that simply have me shaking my head in bewilderment.  If they studded them with "bling" and sold them as pure vanity items, it would be one thing - but claiming that a $5000 AC cable is really going to give you that realistic tight bass that your $500 AC cable just couldn't manage - seems like a pure scam. 
 
@olor1n: I'm not sure if whether or not your comments were ultimately directed at me, but I certainly didn't "insist" that anyone is deluding him/herself regarding headphone upgrade cables.  I simply wanted to make sure some of the newer posters were aware that there is, in fact, an ongoing debate between opposing factions on the subject of cables.  However, as I previously mentioned, excluding fancy AC cables, my personal position is one of dubious agnosticism.  That said, I don't understand your apparent resentment regarding comments made based on studies, statistics, and double-blind tests.  Typically, I've found that the head-fi community welcomes the exchange of both empirical evidence and anecdotal impressions when discussing the pros and cons of investing in this expensive hobby. 

 

[skeptic]

Quote:

I'm currently using the Headphile Blacksilver cable and it clearly does sharpen up the 650's sound (though I'd say "sharpen" rather than "brighten", as one can be mistaken for the other and I don't believe a cable can actually add brightness). 
 

 
If you have a chance, would you elaborate on what you mean by "sharpen"?  Thanks!

 

[shaunybaby]

well this might be off topic from the last few post but here goes,

i bought my grados and found these to be a good foot holding in the market of headphones when buyying these i didn,t know of ''head fi'' but about three weeks after getting them i found this site looked around and liked what i sore, but as so many others got i too did get the famous upgrade urgue that makes you think there is always better and so i looked for a while and settled on hd 650s got them and liked them at first but soon i found them boring compaired to my grado 225is and they sat un-used for about two months not touched and then for some reason i picked em up and started listening to them again and again i found my self bored but being the newb that i was and still am i didn,t know that you need a good amp to really make them shine, so i looked around and found the nice and fexible nuforce hdp desktop amp and from then on i have found the grados to be weak sounding and boring.

two months on and the 650s grow and grow on me, i put on the grados now and then and i just don,t like them, getting rid of them soon, so many people like these headphones and i can really see why!

these headphones and i have listened to so many good songs and had up to 7 hour listening peroids and will never leave my collection as i hope it will grow.

 

[jacobs34]

This is quite good to hear as I just bought the 650's with an Icon HDP.  I'm glad to hear this amp really works with the HD650's.  
Quote:

well this might be off topic from the last few post but here goes,

i bought my grados and found these to be a good foot holding in the market of headphones when buyying these i didn,t know of ''head fi'' but about three weeks after getting them i found this site looked around and liked what i sore, but as so many others got i too did get the famous upgrade urgue that makes you think there is always better and so i looked for a while and settled on hd 650s got them and liked them at first but soon i found them boring compaired to my grado 225is and they sat un-used for about two months not touched and then for some reason i picked em up and started listening to them again and again i found my self bored but being the newb that i was and still am i didn,t know that you need a good amp to really make them shine, so i looked around and found the nice and fexible nuforce hdp desktop amp and from then on i have found the grados to be weak sounding and boring.

two months on and the 650s grow and grow on me, i put on the grados now and then and i just don,t like them, getting rid of them soon, so many people like these headphones and i can really see why!

these headphones and i have listened to so many good songs and had up to 7 hour listening peroids and will never leave my collection as i hope it will grow.

 

 

[mackat]

I have a fiio e9, and what would be better for under $150? for HD650

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

I have a fiio e9, and what would be better for under $150? for HD650

I'd be suprised if you can do better than the E9 for $150, do you use an outboard dac? If not, then that could be a better investment as even the cheapest usb dac will sound better than using your pc direct to an amp.
Not sure how much the Musical fidelity V-Dac goes for in the US but I got mine for £140 and it is a brilliant dac for the money and from what I have read can compete with much higher end components. 
 
and then there's always cables.. ha ha (sore subject at the mo..)

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

@LugBug: Thank you for the gracious response to my last post!  I got a good chuckle out of the Steven Hawkings reference

  Your move from a shoddy (perhaps partially defective?) power cable to a well insulated cable that is relatively modestly priced (by hifi standards) makes good sense to me - particularly if you think you are having RF interference issues.  It's the AC cables in the several hundred to several thousand dollar range that simply have me shaking my head in bewilderment.  If they studded them with "bling" and sold them as pure vanity items, it would be one thing - but claiming that a $5000 AC cable is really going to give you that realistic tight bass that your $500 AC cable just couldn't manage - seems like a pure scam. 
 
@olor1n: I'm not sure if whether or not your comments were ultimately directed at me, but I certainly didn't "insist" that anyone is deluding him/herself regarding headphone upgrade cables.  I simply wanted to make sure some of the newer posters were aware that there is, in fact, an ongoing debate between opposing factions on the subject of cables.  However, as I previously mentioned, excluding fancy AC cables, my personal position is one of dubious agnosticism.  That said, I don't understand your apparent resentment regarding comments made based on studies, statistics, and double-blind tests.  Typically, I've found that the head-fi community welcomes the exchange of both empirical evidence and anecdotal impressions when discussing the pros and cons of investing in this expensive hobby. 

Sorry if you inferred anything from the "tone" of my post. I must remember to use a smiley next time.
 
I don't discount opposing views, especially those based on scientific methods. However in this instance, the things I perceive are not subtle and I'm inclined to carry on enjoying these benefits. I'm not about to question the validity of my first hand experience because others have a hard time making these observations in conditions different to mine, let alone when someone presents an opposing view when they've had no first hand experience.
 
An agnostic stance is a good one to have on this forum. Try things for yourself and present views based on your own findings.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 

 
"If you have a chance, would you elaborate on what you mean by "sharpen"?  Thanks!"
 
 
Hey, a chance just came up! 

 
I meant bring into focus. It really is like sharpening the focus on a camera, with the side-effect of seeming to brighten the sound. As I say, I don't believe any cable can add treble, but you would swear that was the effect.

 

[LugBug1]

 

 
An agnostic stance is a good one to have on this forum. Try things for yourself and present views based on your own findings.

Exaclty!  "Don't believe the Hype" Try it for yourself. I believed in Father Xmas until I woke up on Xmas eve to find my p*ssed mother stumbling round my room trying to find my sock...
 
Now I don't believe in him. No matter what anyone sez (not even on forums) snif!!.  

 

[draven5494]

I finally received my HD650s after a long period of wanting to try them and my first impression was similar to what people have been saying.  There is nothing on these cans that blow you away, but everything sounds.... right.  After taking them off all I can think about is when can I put them back on?  It's weird, but in a good way.  I love the way the HD650s make, and pardon the corny description, a soundscape bubble around my head.  Like there is this large bubble and the music just completely fills this space around my head. 
 
Of course, I also noticed something odd when testing these headphones.  It seems that when using the HD650s with my Matrix M-stage amp, I can hear the infamous veil that some people talk about.  It's almost like I put a piece of cloth in between the headphones and my ears.  It's there because when I hook the HD650s directly to my Auzentech Forte soundcard the sound is crystal clear.  I mean, it is really really nice.  It completely removes that veil.  The treble is nice and detailed.   The bass is there in full force and of course the famous mids are probably the best I've ever heard from a set of cans.
 
It is a little disappointing to see that my m-stage won't cut it with these cans, but I am nothing but happy about my decision to buy the HD650s.