[Nintendam]

These do pair this much differently with tubes? I made the q1mkii with balanced cable jump, and it was night and day.

I've never experienced headphones through a tube power source, although I have played guitar on a tube amp. Are listening to headphones through different tube powered amps that similar?

 

[KopaneDePooj]

Anyone owning the HD650/6XX, the FiiO Q5 on balanced output AND a tube amp? The Q5 is very neutral in FR and the bass switch is not very extreme, it just lifts the bass a sensible amount and cuts a bit of the upper-midrange to low treble energy. Lately I find myself preferring the bass switch ON very often. I wonder it this has a similar effect as a tube amp.

 

[kman1211]

Anyone owning the HD650/6XX, the FiiO Q5 on balanced output AND a tube amp? The Q5 is very neutral in FR and the bass switch is not very extreme, it just lifts the bass a sensible amount and cuts a bit of the upper-midrange to low treble energy. Lately I find myself preferring the bass switch ON very often. I wonder it this has a similar effect as a tube amp.

Depends on the tube amp, some are intentionally colored and some are quite neutral. Some solid state can be tuned like that too. My lushest, most 3D sounding, and darkest amp I have is a solid state.

 

[KopaneDePooj]

Depends on the tube amp, some are intentionally colored and some are quite neutral. Some solid state can be tuned like that too. My lushest, most 3D sounding, and darkest amp I have is a solid state.

Thanks! What amp is that?

 

[kman1211]

Thanks! What amp is that?

The Sony UDA-1. I personally like it more with the HD 600 and certain Beyers more than the HD 650. It’s a bit too warm and dark with the HD 650 imho.

 

[SP Wild]

I listen to headphones for not accurate imaging, but I find headphones can have quite an interesting imaging. Like for example, of a headphone is driven by a particular amp, you can hear the bass area increase. Another amp, smaller bass area with impression of greater impact within the small area. I do notice the placement of the sounds are not accurate, and I'm sure the imaging is caused by facing the cups right over your ears at a direct angle than how we experience speakers. I find headphone sound to have interesting imaging due to a depth derived from the right DAC/Amp/headphone combo, although in certain cases, Hifiman planars tend to have interesting imaging with certain types of tracks, in which I attribute to the headphone's characteristics.

These interesting imaging motivates me to listen to many more tracks to find out what kind of imaging each track has to offer.

That's a refreshing take on headphone appreciation.

I never quite understood the obsession with soundstage and imaging until I properly set up studio monitors. Then I understood that spatial elements are encoded by the creators of the music to portray elements of 3 dimensionality.

Going straight back to headphones after only listening to monitors was an eye opener in how terrible my HD800S was with space compared to speakers.

After re-adjusting to headphones again. I feel the necessity to sit in a rigid position to achieve perfect soundstage on speakers is often detrimental to circumstances. I am more than happy with my JBL portable Bluetooth speaker 90 percent of the time. That's a mono speaker!

With headphones, I think imaging is a function of separation and air. For instance the HD650 has more air in the bass and low mids than the HD58X, therefore images better than the HD58X in the bass and low mids.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

These do pair this much differently with tubes? I made the q1mkii with balanced cable jump, and it was night and day.

I've never experienced headphones through a tube power source, although I have played guitar on a tube amp. Are listening to headphones through different tube powered amps that similar?

Many people like them with tubes, certainly not a necessity, just up to personal preference. Tubes will add 2nd and some 3rd harmonic distortion to your input signal, how much of each is dependent on the tubes used. This can give the impression of changes in frequency response and it can change the timbre, making it more "tubey", some would call it a smoothing effect. Other adjectives used are lush or liquid. All of this of course is dependent on the tube amp and the circuit topology. Some amps are more "tubey", others are more transparent and revealing.

 

[gefski]

I listen to headphones for not accurate imaging, but I find headphones can have quite an interesting imaging. Like for example, of a headphone is driven by a particular amp, you can hear the bass area increase. Another amp, smaller bass area with impression of greater impact within the small area. I do notice the placement of the sounds are not accurate, and I'm sure the imaging is caused by facing the cups right over your ears at a direct angle than how we experience speakers. I find headphone sound to have interesting imaging due to a depth derived from the right DAC/Amp/headphone combo, although in certain cases, Hifiman planars tend to have interesting imaging with certain types of tracks, in which I attribute to the headphone's characteristics.

These interesting imaging motivates me to listen to many more tracks to find out what kind of imaging each track has to offer.

...and some manufacturers use angled/off center drivers and/or pads (HD800, LCD, K701, etc.) in attempts to improve imaging and soundstage. Makes it interesting for sure.

 

[yvv]

Many people like them with tubes, certainly not a necessity, just up to personal preference. Tubes will add 2nd and some 3rd harmonic distortion to you input signal, how much of each is dependent on the tubes used. This can give the impression of changes in frequency response and it can change the timbre, making it more "tubey", some would call it a smoothing effect. Other adjectives used are lush or liquid. All of this of course is dependent on the tube amp and the circuit topology. Some amps are more "tubey", others are more transparent and revealing.

+1. Good tube amps will also give a better sense of space,a more 3D, holographic sound. Works really well on voices.

 

[gefski]

+1. Good tube amps will also give a better sense of space,a more 3D, holographic sound. Works really well on voices.

First encountered this 40+ years ago listening to a friend's properly set up LS35As driven by excellent tube electronics. Once listened to, I never could "unhear" this transparency to the instruments and vocals in space.

This transparent window, along with true timbre, has driven me ever since.

 

[JKDJedi]

Many people like them with tubes, certainly not a necessity, just up to personal preference. Tubes will add 2nd and some 3rd harmonic distortion to your input signal, how much of each is dependent on the tubes used. This can give the impression of changes in frequency response and it can change the timbre, making it more "tubey", some would call it a smoothing effect. Other adjectives used are lush or liquid. All of this of course is dependent on the tube amp and the circuit topology. Some amps are more "tubey", others are more transparent and revealing.

+1! I exclusively use the HD6XX with my tubed amp now. and can change the sounds mentioned above with a simple tube swap, "Tube Rolling",

 

[SilverEars]

+1! I exclusively use the HD6XX with my tubed amp now. and can change the sounds mentioned above with a simple tube swap, "Tube Rolling",

Something I notice is that tube amps are sensitive to how loose or warm, vs dry or damped sounding the DAC is. I think dry works best most instances. OTL vs SET, SET seems most senstive, but OTL can be a bit limited what headphones can be used (Crack with 300 ohm Senheisers for example).

While back I had mistakenly thought a particular amp was overly warm and hazy with certain type of DAC and then when I connected it to a dry DAC, it sounded much clearer, sounding more tightened up. I made an assumption that overly warm was the amp's characteristic, but it just happened to be a bit sensitive to it I think. It's akin to loosenjng up a solid-state tightness in response with tubes. A super tight or dry responsed DAC with a tube amp. I don't think all tube amps are like this, but most.

I wonder if it's the harmonic distortions that makes headphones image such ways? How people perceive wider stage, holography or more 3D like sounds? So, does this mean the tube amp is providing this imaging from a flat and dry sounding DAC?

 

[JKDJedi]

Something I notice is that tube amps are sensitive to how loose or warm, vs dry or damped sounding the DAC is. I think dry works best most instances. OTL vs SET, SET seems most senstive, but OTL can be a bit limited what headphones can be used (Crack with 300 ohm Senheisers for example).

While back I had mistakenly thought a particular amp was overly warm and hazy with certain type of DAC and then when I connected it to a dry DAC, it sounded much clearer, sounding more tightened up. I made an assumption that overly warm was the amp's characteristic, but it just happened to be a bit sensitive to it I think. It's akin to loosenjng up a solid-state tightness in response with tubes. A super tight or dry responsed DAC with a tube amp. I don't think all tube amps are like this, but most.

I wonder if it's the harmonic distortions that makes headphones image such ways? How people perceive wider stage, holography or more 3D like sounds? So, does this mean the tube amp is providing this imaging from a flat and dry sounding DAC?

This I can vouch for, dacs do make a difference. My iFi Black Label is super clear and slightly warm, which I love, but kinda on the narrow side too as far as soundstage goes, Burr Brown Dac. My Topping D10, Sabre Dac, has a wider soundstage with a BRIGHTER sound signature. Not as pure as the IFi but on its own sounds really good, I prefer the Topping with my tubed amp. Some Yin and Yang love going on here. Warm tubes with a Sabre Dac..... Shwing!

 

[Pharmaboy]

I would be buying a 650 used, can an ifi idsd nano BL power the 650s well enough?

My lowest power amp (M Stage Matrix HPA-1) has about 440 mV output. Even with the impedance mismatch vs a 300 ohm HD650, I get more than enough volume on my heavily modded HD650 (Jupiter Audio Research "J-Mod"). So I suspect the iFi will be more than sufficient.

But remember, while this is a "budget" headphone, it's also very well designed & voiced. It can "scale up" w/bigger/better SS amps. You'll also get subtle but very nice sonic upgrades with any well designed tube OTL amp (mine is the humble Woo WA3--lovely sound on that).

 

[Pharmaboy]

These do pair this much differently with tubes? I made the q1mkii with balanced cable jump, and it was night and day.

I've never experienced headphones through a tube power source, although I have played guitar on a tube amp. Are listening to headphones through different tube powered amps that similar?

Tube amps typically sound somewhat different from solid state. These differences can be heard readily on headphones or speakers. The design & quality of implementation of each tube amp determines the final sound more than just the fact tubes are used. As others here note, there is no single/universal "tube sound" you get from all amps.

Still, there are some common elements many tube amps have: they tend to bring out the midrange a bit more than solid state. There's often a hard to describe (but easy to hear) increase in dimensionality w/tubes: each note seems more distinct, 3-dimensional, more clearly positioned in space. I've always gotten better soundstaging with tubes--not only in terms of width, height, etc, but in terms of believability. IMO tubes often sound a little more like real music.

But with headphones, there's the additional & significant factor of impedance matching. So when you listen to the HD650 on an OTL tube amp, you're not just hearing tube characteristics, but also proper impedance matching (you can also get this w/high impedance SS amps). I find that good impedance matchings produces its own distinctive sonic virtues. The 300 ohm HD650 sounds great on my SS amps, but it brings something extra on my OTL: the overall sound is more level, exact, composed. Subtle qualities, but audible & most welcome.