[DavidA]

And the others? In particular the momentum and the V-Modas.

V-Moda XS: bass heavy, "V" shaped sound with lower mids a bit recessed, doesn't have the sparkle in the highs like the MDR-1A, more grain in the treble, if coming from beats then these will sound better.
Momentum over-ear: slightly bass heavy, "U" shaped sound, a little more extended highs with some sparkle like the MDR-1A
Momentum on-ear: very close to the over-ear but bass is better controlled and the alcantara pads are more comfortable to me over the leather ones on the over-ear.

Might want to go with PM since we are getting off topic

 

[litwick87]

been using mine for a little over a week now with my Schiit Jot/Dac combo. Absolutely Love them!

 

[DavidA]

been using mine for a little over a week now with my Schiit Jot/Dac combo. Absolutely Love them!

Agree that the Jot is pretty good pairing for the HD650 and the Nighthawk.

 

[litwick87]

Agree that the Jot is pretty good pairing for the HD650 and the Nighthawk.

I eventually want to get a Valhalla 2 as well, or maybe something a little "tubeier"

 

[DavidA]

I eventually want to get a Valhalla 2 as well, or maybe something a little "tubeier"

Depending on your budget: Elise ($800), BH Crack ($400-600 depends on tubes and mods), Project Ember ($350), Project Solstice ($250)
I wouldn't go with the Valhalla2 only because with the stock tubes its not far from the Jot IMO. A friend says that rolling tubes in the Valhalla2 didn't seem to have the same effect as rolling tubes on the Lyr2 so he kept the Lyr2 since its more flexible with various headphones.

 

[LazyListener]

I think those calling the 598s thin compared with 650, must be referring to the differences in treble, primarily. 598's treble is north of neutral, whereas 650's treble is south of neutral.

Below are some links to FR curves for both cans from 2 sources. It's easy to see that 650s are relatively flat from mid-bass to low-treble, before they start to roll off in the treble. The 598s have more of a hill from bass to high bass to low mids before dropping down a bit in the mids and high mids, and then a couple of treble peaks, especially the big one around 9-10 Khz. 598 is ever so slightly v-shaped. That slight dip in the mids makes the bass/high bass more noticeable on the 598 than 650s. 650 closer to neutral with rolled off treble. 650's mids being much more even with the bass makes the bass less pronounced than 598s.

http://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-1/graph#245/1184

http://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-1/graph#246/1184

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD650.pdf

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD598.pdf

 

[litwick87]

Depending on your budget: Elise ($800), BH Crack ($400-600 depends on tubes and mods), Project Ember ($350), Project Solstice ($250)
I wouldn't go with the Valhalla2 only because with the stock tubes its not far from the Jot IMO. A friend says that rolling tubes in the Valhalla2 didn't seem to have the same effect as rolling tubes on the Lyr2 so he kept the Lyr2 since its more flexible with various headphones.

Its a ways down the line and I have a lot of reading to do, thanks for the suggestions though, I'll write them down and look back at them when the time comes.

 

[kman1211]

Depending on your budget: Elise ($800), BH Crack ($400-600 depends on tubes and mods), Project Ember ($350), Project Solstice ($250)
I wouldn't go with the Valhalla2 only because with the stock tubes its not far from the Jot IMO. A friend says that rolling tubes in the Valhalla2 didn't seem to have the same effect as rolling tubes on the Lyr2 so he kept the Lyr2 since its more flexible with various headphones.

Honestly I found it the same, the Lyr 2 was far more responsive to tube rolling and honestly was never really all that impressed with the Valhalla 2.

 

[Letmebefrank]

I recently listened to the Valhalla 2 and a bottlehead crack at a friend's house with my HD650s and the crack blew me away. The Valhalla 2 sounded very similar to my Vali 2, but the crack was something special. I will build one some day, but for now my Jotunheim makes me happy.

 

[Krutsch]

I recently listened to the Valhalla 2 and a bottlehead crack at a friend's house with my HD650s and the crack blew me away. The Valhalla 2 sounded very similar to my Vali 2, but the crack was something special. I will build one some day, but for now my Jotunheim makes me happy.

Yes, I've listened to a Vali and Valhalla next to a Crack and I agree with your statement. The last Crack I listened to really benefited from one of my power tubes (I think I tried a TS-5998).

If you liked the Crack, you should try a Woo WA3 w/ a nice power tube. IMO, it's another step up, though more expensive.

 

[JWolf]

I'll take an amp that makes me go WOW, over an amp that doesn't, every time. I could care less about the amp itself. Listening to music should be all about how it makes you feel. WOW is a feeling, and anything that helps me achieve my own personal WOW, is a good thing IMO. I'm not recording/producing the music so I don't need complete accuracy and neutrality.

But while the amp might make you go WOW in some cases, it could make the music sound worse. The amp would not be neutral enough. An AMP should be neutral and what should be giving you the WOW is the DAC you are using along with the headphones and the music. You don't need or want coloration as that won't be good in a number of cases,

 

[xDaveyJ]

But while the amp might make you go WOW in some cases, it could make the music sound worse. The amp would not be neutral enough. An AMP should be neutral and what should be giving you the WOW is the DAC you are using along with the headphones and the music. You don't need or want coloration as that won't be good in a number of cases,

That's your preferences, not his. There is no supposed or standard there's flavours and prefferences. All amps have their own character.

 

[Letmebefrank]

Isn't music all about what sounds good to you? Why do people feel the need to go online and tell everyone else they're wrong? People have personal preferences that are going to be different than yours, accept that and respond in a positive way.

As I type this I realize how futile it is to try to argue with people online but I feel like this needs to be said.

 

[DavidA]

Yes, I've listened to a Vali and Valhalla next to a Crack and I agree with your statement. The last Crack I listened to really benefited from one of my power tubes (I think I tried a TS-5998).

If you liked the Crack, you should try a Woo WA3 w/ a nice power tube. IMO, it's another step up, though more expensive.

The reason the TS5998 does well with most amps is because its has one of the lowest impedance output of most power tubes is what I've told from the more knowledgeable posters in the BH thread. While I like the tube sound the WA3 with stock tubes was a little to warm to me, much like the Elise with stock tubes, But if are willing to do some tube rolling with the Elise, WA3 or most other tube amps you are rewarded with sound that is tailored to your preference and sometimes to perfection. I just noticed that you have a WE421 for your WA3, now I know why you like the WA3

But while the amp might make you go WOW in some cases, it could make the music sound worse. The amp would not be neutral enough. An AMP should be neutral and what should be giving you the WOW is the DAC you are using along with the headphones and the music. You don't need or want coloration as that won't be good in a number of cases,

I respect your stance on wanting a neutral amp but not everyone is like you. It seems that you might have had a bad experience with a tube amp since there are tube amps that I think are more neutral than some SS amps. I agree that some tube amps can color the sound too much but most can be changed/corrected to get close to neutral if you so desired with proper tube selection as I've heard with the WA3, BH Crack, and Elise. One thing I did notice is if an amp pairing makes someone go WOW it will never make any music sound worse for that individual because that is the sound signature that they like.

The only time coloration would not be good is for someone working in a studio and doing the recording/mastering, for everyone else I believe its a preference/choice.

 

[litwick87]

I might save for a WA3 over the Valhalla/lyr2, and then a bifrost multibit