[JWolf]

I respect your stance on wanting a neutral amp but not everyone is like you. It seems that you might have had a bad experience with a tube amp since there are tube amps that I think are more neutral than some SS amps. I agree that some tube amps can color the sound too much but most can be changed/corrected to get close to neutral if you so desired with proper tube selection as I've heard with the WA3, BH Crack, and Elise. One thing I did notice is if an amp pairing makes someone go WOW it will never make any music sound worse for that individual because that is the sound signature that they like.

The only time coloration would not be good is for someone working in a studio and doing the recording/mastering, for everyone else I believe its a preference/choice.

Let's say you have an amp that adds bass. You have a track with not so much bass, it may then sound better. But take a bass heavy track and add more bass and you could be overdoing it. You could have an amp that stretches the sound left/right but not so much front/back and the imaging may be off. There are times coloration can work and times when it doesn't work. Not every song works with coloration. I prefer neutral. I'll do my coloring with the headphones.

 

[DavidA]

I might save for a WA3 over the Valhalla/lyr2, and then a bifrost multibit

You do understand that the better tubes used in the WA3 are not cheap, especially the better ones like the TS-5998 and WE421A (usually around $150+ per tube these days), like these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-MAT...d=332337415412&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VG-CONDITIO...415412?hash=item4d60da84f4:g:PtMAAOSwdBRZgxEP (not NOS, rated VG condition)

Also, the 6922/6jd8 driver tubes are the same ones used in the Lyr2 and even these have been going up in price these past few years for good ones going for $100+ per tube.

FYI: depending on the other headphones you own or would like to try in the future should be considered since the BH Crack and WA3 are OTL amps that are designed for high impedance headphones like the HD650, HD800 but don't usually sound good with low impedance headphones like most planar headphones.

 

[DavidA]

Let's say you have an amp that adds bass. You have a track with not so much bass, it may then sound better. But take a bass heavy track and add more bass and you could be overdoing it. You could have an amp that stretches the sound left/right but not so much front/back and the imaging may be off. There are times coloration can work and times when it doesn't work. Not every song works with coloration. I prefer neutral. I'll do my coloring with the headphones.

I understand your point, its like the Elise with stock tubes and the HD650, way to warm with muddy bass which i didn't like, easily corrected with proper tube choice. The coloration that I'm talking about is subtle so I would never get to the conditions you are describing, which is what I think most are saying.

 

[Bazirker]

I'm one of the bazillion people who (wisely, I think) jumped on the HD6xx bandwagon. I'm looking for a DAC/amp, preferably a single unit although a stack would be acceptable, that is reasonable to run both my HD6xx when it arrives in December as well as my UM Merlins (gen 1.) Any suggestions, or do I really need to consider a setup where perhaps I have a single DAC which outputs to a different amp for each headphone? Thanks!

 

[DavidA]

I'm one of the bazillion people who (wisely, I think) jumped on the HD6xx bandwagon. I'm looking for a DAC/amp, preferably a single unit although a stack would be acceptable, that is reasonable to run both my HD6xx when it arrives in December as well as my UM Merlins (gen 1.) Any suggestions, or do I really need to consider a setup where perhaps I have a single DAC which outputs to a different amp for each headphone? Thanks!

I would wait until you get the HD6XX before looking for DACs/amps and see if you can try them on different gear before looking for a DAC/amp since you may just like it with your current gear.

 

[Bazirker]

I would wait until you get the HD6XX before looking for DACs/amps and see if you can try them on different gear before looking for a DAC/amp since you may just like it with your current gear.

Ah, this would be a better suggestion if I actually had any amps or DACs at the moment...nothing but a laptop, iPad, and smartphone

 

[cskippy]

I'm one of the bazillion people who (wisely, I think) jumped on the HD6xx bandwagon. I'm looking for a DAC/amp, preferably a single unit although a stack would be acceptable, that is reasonable to run both my HD6xx when it arrives in December as well as my UM Merlins (gen 1.) Any suggestions, or do I really need to consider a setup where perhaps I have a single DAC which outputs to a different amp for each headphone? Thanks!

An amp that will work for both HD6XX and UM Merlin is a tough thing to find. I would recommend Jot as it's one of the quietest amps for IEMs that also synergizes really well with the HD650. If you get any hiss on low gain I would use one of the airline attenuators on the cheap or get the ifi IEMatch for a better impedance match.
Bifrost Multibit is and Jot is a force to be reckoned with, although certainly not cheap, I would be happy as a main system if I had to downgrade. Adding a Saga down the road for some tube pre action or for speakers is another option.

 

[DavidA]

Ah, this would be a better suggestion if I actually had any amps or DACs at the moment...nothing but a laptop, iPad, and smartphone

There is a lot of time between now and Dec, hopefully you might get an opportunity to audition the HD650 before then so you can get some idea of what they sound like, unless you have already heard them and know what you are looking for sound wise. I know the laptop, iPad and smartphone will not bring out the best of the HD650 but getting to know the sound of the HD650 with those devices will give you some ideas to where you want to go with the addition of an amp and possibly DAC.
Agree with @cskippy that the Jot is great with the HD650 but if you see other headphones in your future you might want to consider those possible headphones in your choices of an amp. One amp that helped me the most in this sometimes crazy hobby is the Project Ember. It gave me invaluable experience with tube rolling and the effect of impedance in both headphones and amp and to this days I still consider it one of the best purchases that I've made.

 

[LazyListener]

Let's say you have an amp that adds bass. You have a track with not so much bass, it may then sound better. But take a bass heavy track and add more bass and you could be overdoing it. You could have an amp that stretches the sound left/right but not so much front/back and the imaging may be off. There are times coloration can work and times when it doesn't work. Not every song works with coloration. I prefer neutral. I'll do my coloring with the headphones.

If you only let your headphones color the sound and stick to only a neutral amp, you will not be able to achieve some of the various sound signatures that can be achieved when combining colored amps with colored headphones. With more combinations, we have more possibilities. If you can achieve your ideal or preferred sound signature using only a neutralish amp and headphones, then you're good to go. However, for some, that is not possible, and trying various colored amps/tubes with headphones is the only way they can achieve sonic bliss.

 

[cskippy]

If you only let your headphones color the sound and stick to only a neutral amp, you will not be able to achieve some of the various sound signatures that can be achieved when combining colored amps with colored headphones. With more combinations, we have more possibilities. If you can achieve your ideal or preferred sound signature using only a neutralish amp and headphones, then you're good to go. However, for some, that is not possible, and trying various colored amps/tubes with headphones is the only way they can achieve sonic bliss.

+1

Also, tailoring amp/DAC and cables(gasp!) for a headphone that is as close to ideal for you can get you closer to your ideal sound than another headphone. Take for example the HD650. it has some of the best mids of any headphone regardless of price but for me I find the mid bass to be slightly too much. So I pair it with Jot an aggressive SS amp which helps to minimize the mid bass push and adds some bit and sparkle to the top end making for a more enjoyable sound for me. I would have to spend over $2000 to get a worthwhile improvement over the HD650 as IMO, the only upgrades from HD650 are Utopia, Code-X, HE-6, PM-X, and maybe HE-1000v2. Most other headphones have one or more faults that make them non starters for me.

 

[litwick87]

You do understand that the better tubes used in the WA3 are not cheap, especially the better ones like the TS-5998 and WE421A (usually around $150+ per tube these days), like these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-MATCH-PAIR-421-A-5998-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-TUBES-421A-DOMINO-GREY-PLATES/272809820490?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=45727&meid=df99690853164d07b088bc910885da9f&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=332337415412&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VG-CONDITIO...415412?hash=item4d60da84f4:g:PtMAAOSwdBRZgxEP (not NOS, rated VG condition)

Also, the 6922/6jd8 driver tubes are the same ones used in the Lyr2 and even these have been going up in price these past few years for good ones going for $100+ per tube.

FYI: depending on the other headphones you own or would like to try in the future should be considered since the BH Crack and WA3 are OTL amps that are designed for high impedance headphones like the HD650, HD800 but don't usually sound good with low impedance headphones like most planar headphones.

HD650 is my only headphone right now. All of this speculation is in the future and I'm just enjoying reading about it all right now.

 

[xDaveyJ]

I've ways found the WA3 too unresolving for the HD650, so mushy, gooey and undefined. The Crack with speedball while much bassier is superior to the WA3 by quite a bit IMO.

The Elise is a good amp if you like a classic OTL sound but revolving and very good technically. I don't find it too warm with the Atticus which is warmer than the HD650 but YMMV

 

[peter123]

Today I did the coin mod (removed the foam behind the drivers and cut a hole in the foam on the earside matching the center of the drivers) to my HD650, so far I think I like it more than stock. Clarity and air is better and overall sound is less wolly if that makes sense. Not a night and day difference but still easily noticeable, haven't really found any downsides yet.

Listening to Katie Melua - Secret Symphony right now and I'm really enjoying it.

Using the LH Labs Geek Out V2+ and balanced cable, really wouldn't need any other amp/dac than this imo.

 

[DavidA]

I've ways found the WA3 too unresolving for the HD650, so mushy, gooey and undefined. The Crack with speedball while much bassier is superior to the WA3 by quite a bit IMO.

The Elise is a good amp if you like a classic OTL sound but revolving and very good technically. I don't find it too warm with the Atticus which is warmer than the HD650 but YMMV

Did the WA3 have the stock tubes? The one time I heard the WA3 it was with some nice tubes (Telefunken CCa and WE421a) and it was pretty close to if not better than my BH Crack IMO.

The Elise with stock tubes is a bit too warm and mushy to me and I would take my BH Crack over it and the owner agree. The owner of the Elise let me know that with a little rolling then the Elise is at another level and he has compared it to my BH Crack so I take his work for it since he and I both agree that with the stock tubes the BH Crack was the better amp at the time.

 

[xDaveyJ]

I've heard various tubes with the WA3. To be honest I don't like those tube types. I much prefer 6NS7 and 6080 combo like the Elise.

I have a 2017 Elise and with the Russian stock tube combo It's not too warm, it is wet and bloomy but not overly so IMO but I do listen to mostly tube amps only and many are overly warm.

I find the Elise more resolving, defined better subtle detail than the Crack but the Crack is more musical(slightly) and bassy.


The 6080 Mullards in the Elise do elevate it in terms of musicality but the BHC has that 120ohm output impedence making the bass more intrusive(tastefully done)