[rmacaisa]

Valhalla 2 is, imo, the better pairing here. I like things amped well, so I personally don't like too much tube distortion (even on my HD800). Valhalla gives you tube power and the CHANCE to tube roll for a more traditional tubey sound.
 
Crack sounds a little too tubey for me, which wasn't to my liking on an already warm headphone. 650s deserve tube amplification, from a good neutral tube amp.

 

[DavidA]

  I currently have a HD 650 with Magni/Modi 1 stack and am looking to upgrade the amp.
 
Without considering price, would you guys recommend an upgrade to the BH Crack + Speedball or the Valhalla 2?

as @raybone0566 noted either will work quite well, it come down to personal preference.  With stock tubes in both the Valhalla2 will be the cleaner sounding of the two and have the better sound stage.  With upgrades the BH Crack can be made to be very clean sounding or warm sounding, changes in tubes affect the sound a bit more on the Crack than in the Valhalla2.  One reason is the choice of power tubes that are used for each, the 6080/5998/6AS7 family of tubes are a better more varied group IMO than the 6N6P family used in the Valhalla2.  As @mysticstryk noted, don't go crazy with buying tubes as the better tubes for the BH Crack can be quite costly (+$150 for some of them) while the Valhalla2 the more costly tubes are the drivers rather than the power tubes.
 
As an alternate, if you are located in Europe I would suggest looking at Feliks Espressivo which is in the same price range of the Crack and Valhalla2.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

Ditto......don't go nuts with tubes. Spend on MUSIC.
 
Have you considered a Project Polaris? It does 650 extremely well, without tubes.

 

[jamesino]

I'll have to admit, I do prefer a cleaner, brighter sound with a larger soundstage.
 
However, there is a local seller who is selling the BH Crack + Speedball (not installed however) for about 250 USD. Which seems like a really good deal. 
 
For your comments above, were you guys comparing the BH Crack or the BH Crack + SB to the Valhalla 2?

 

[DavidA]

  I'll have to admit, I do prefer a cleaner, brighter sound with a larger soundstage.
 
However, there is a local seller who is selling the BH Crack + Speedball (not installed however) for about 250 USD. Which seems like a really good deal. 
 
For your comments above, were you guys comparing the BH Crack or the BH Crack + SB to the Valhalla 2?

I was comparing BH Crack to Valhalla2, but I did build my Crack without the SB first to see how it sounds, after a month I installed the SB and listened to it for a month.  Ended up taking the SB out, sounds a bit more dynamic without the SB to me but since we all hear differently you need to audition to see what you prefer.  The price is really good, I haven't seen any built ones at that low a price.

 

[mysticstryk]

I'll have to admit, I do prefer a cleaner, brighter sound with a larger soundstage.

However, there is a local seller who is selling the BH Crack + Speedball (not installed however) for about 250 USD. Which seems like a really good deal. 

For your comments above, were you guys comparing the BH Crack or the BH Crack + SB to the Valhalla 2?

If your okay with installing the SB yourself, then that is a fantastic price.

Used Valhalla 2 should run about that price too.

 

[rovopio]

  You'd be surprised how easy it is to listen at volumes above 75-80dB, so I'd double-check that. And again, I'm not saying you'll hear more actual detail in those frequencies, I'm saying that the headphones' frequency responses differ from each other so you will hear more or less of certain frequencies. I'd prefer to define detail as resolution rather than tying it to a given frequency response. The HD650 is slightly more resolving (but the HD600 is no slouch). You won't really go wrong with either, and I'm nitpicking because I've spent a lot of time with them this past year.
 
Defining something as detailed because it has elevated treble leads people to view headphones like Grados and the HD800, which each have horribly exaggerated treble, as detailed for the wrong reason. This is false detail, as opposed to looking solely at how resolving the driver is. (The HD800 is very resolving, but its poor frequency response tuning sours the whole experience for a lot of people, including me.)
 
After spending the last six months to a year with the HD600, HD650 (stock and modded), and HD800 for various intervals and with overlap, if I had to pick one it would be the HD650 (either stock or modded, preference for the latter).

 
Do you mind if I ask you two things, how can I measure my dB level? What stuff should I buy in order for me to do that?
Which mods do you think is a "must" for hd650 but is also easy for first-timers? Because what I've read in a glance about dynamat mod makes it seems like it's not exactly a first-timer thing...

 

[ZoNtO]

I didn't mean to imply I'm an expert in sound measurement or anything. I just download an iPhone app called Decibel 10th that lets you measure sound pressure levels through your phone's microphone. It's a helpful tool for keeping listening levels in check and using at public performances as a gauge for when earplugs should be worn. I'm sure there are other apps too.
 
I'll send you a PM about mods, but generally the three most often recommended are: (1) cut a coin-sized hole out of the front foam pad between your ear and the driver; (2) remove the rear damping foam and/or plastic spider (the sole purpose of which is to hold such foam in place); and (3) strategically place Dynamat or a similar mass loader (I use and recommend Second Skin Damplifier Pro). Generally, the effects of the mods, corresponding to the numbers above are: (1) increased clarity and slightly increased treble response; (2) slightly increased midbass hump (~1dB), reduced grain/strain, and more room for the driver to breathe; and (3) objectively better measured bass and subbass distortion. I did all of them at once, but I would say that of the three the mass loading is the one to try given the better distortion performance. Some do not like the coin mod or the rear foam/spider removal; others swear by the latter and claim it has the greatest effect on the sound.

 

[rovopio]

  I didn't mean to imply I'm an expert in sound measurement or anything. I just download an iPhone app called Decibel 10th that lets you measure sound pressure levels through your phone's microphone. It's a helpful tool for keeping listening levels in check and using at public performances as a gauge for when earplugs should be worn. I'm sure there are other apps too.
 
I'll send you a PM about mods, but generally the three most often recommended are: (1) cut a coin-sized hole out of the front foam pad between your ear and the driver; (2) remove the rear damping foam and/or plastic spider (the sole purpose of which is to hold such foam in place); and (3) strategically place Dynamat or a similar mass loader (I use and recommend Second Skin Damplifier Pro). Generally, the effects of the mods, corresponding to the numbers above are: (1) increased clarity and slightly increased treble response; (2) slightly increased midbass hump (~1dB), reduced grain/strain, and more room for the driver to breathe; and (3) objectively better measured bass and subbass distortion. I did all of them at once, but I would say that of the three the mass loading is the one to try given the better distortion performance. Some do not like the coin mod or the rear foam/spider removal; others swear by the latter and claim it has the greatest effect on the sound.

Thanks for the reply I appreciate it!
 
Is Dynamat mod an idiot-proof mod or is it more a recipe-for-disaster for stupid? Because I'm stupid. I'm not lazy or anything, I'm just not handy with tweaking things (never done one), I don't even have a Phillips #2 screwdriver before I got my PC. The dynamat mod (based on end result pictures alone) seems like it's pretty complicated?
 
How long and hard is it to implement given the handiness of a 12-years-old? Though then again, seems like 12 years old joints seems to be pretty flexible, how long and hard is it to implement given the handiness of a 60-years-old then?
 
Oh ps: Which one would yield a bigger difference, upgrading from a Magni 2 to a Jotunheim or Dynamat modding the hd650 if I may ask you?

 

[NewEinstein]

I dont think there is any mod you "must" do ... I have a stock HD650 and I am very happy with it driven out of a good amp
 
I can't believe that the HD650 should be such a bad headphone so that you are forced to make any mods to it

 

[ZoNtO]

 
Thanks for the reply I appreciate it!
 
Is Dynamat mod an idiot-proof mod or is it more a recipe-for-disaster for stupid? Because I'm stupid. I'm not lazy or anything, I'm just not handy with tweaking things (never done one), I don't even have a Phillips #2 screwdriver before I got my PC. The dynamat mod (based on end result pictures alone) seems like it's pretty complicated?
 
How long and hard is it to implement given the handiness of a 12-years-old? Though then again, seems like 12 years old joints seems to be pretty flexible, how long and hard is it to implement given the handiness of a 60-years-old then?

 
If you use the material I recommend above instead of Dynamat, it's literally measuring and cutting some pieces of paper to ensure you get the sizes you want, tracing those finished patterns on a piece of paper covering the sticky part of the dampener, cutting out the traced pattern on the dampener with scissors, (optional: trimming the edges of the cut pieces with an Xacto or similar if you're picky about appearances), peeling off a paper backing, and then applying the sticky side of the dampener to the appropriate location on the plastic enclosure (corresponding to the template you already traced). Basically like applying a piece of tape. Dynamat is messier and more difficult to work with than Damplifier Pro (so I'm told).
 
The dampener donut that covers all or a portion of the magnet is the most difficult to cut (two circles of different diameters, but can only easily do so with an Xacto or drill), so not removing the rear foam and spider and thus not dampening the magnet will save a significant amount of time. I'd estimate a couple hours max to dampen everything but the magnet like I did, and that's including measuring, cutting, etc. Once you have the templates, you can use for both cups so it moves pretty quickly.
 
The dampener mod is easily reversible because you can just pull the pieces off the plastic. As I stated in your PM, the coin mod and spider removal are irreversible, and the rear foam removal (if you leave the plastic spider in tact) is reversible but not easily so.

 

[DavidA]

 
Thanks for the reply I appreciate it!
 
Is Dynamat mod an idiot-proof mod or is it more a recipe-for-disaster for stupid? Because I'm stupid. I'm not lazy or anything, I'm just not handy with tweaking things (never done one), I don't even have a Phillips #2 screwdriver before I got my PC. The dynamat mod (based on end result pictures alone) seems like it's pretty complicated?
 
How long and hard is it to implement given the handiness of a 12-years-old? Though then again, seems like 12 years old joints seems to be pretty flexible, how long and hard is it to implement given the handiness of a 60-years-old then?
 
Oh ps: Which one would yield a bigger difference, upgrading from a Magni 2 to a Jotunheim or Dynamat modding the hd650 if I may ask you?

Its not idiot-proof, just need to take your time and don't rush.  While I've never tried using Second Skin Damplifier Pro, when I work with the dynamat I usually put it in the freezer to make it easier to work with, at room temp the dynamat can be hard to work with since its very sticky and the metal covering can be hard to cut thru.
 
I haven't done any mods to my HD-650, been to busy working on tuning ypsilon driver build and just started to build a new headphone with a Nhoord driver, both of these builds use dynamat and sorbothane and have the same effect on the sound as the dynamat in the HD-650.
 
As to you last question, the dynamat will make a bigger difference since you are making changes to the transducer and the Magni2 is a decent amp to start with.  If you were going to a tube amp like a Valhalla2 or Lyr2 then I would say the changes might be about the same as the dynamat mod but in slightly different ways.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

   
Is Dynamat mod an idiot-proof mod or is it more a recipe-for-disaster for stupid? Because I'm stupid. I'm not lazy or anything, I'm just not handy with tweaking things (never done one), I don't even have a Phillips #2 screwdriver.....

 
Don't try it. 

 

[rovopio]

   
Don't try it. 

 
Thanks for the vote of reality. Needed that

 

[jamesino]

Just picked up a used BH Crack (SB not installed).
 
Upgrading from my Magni 1, it seems like the soundstage has opened up, especially the vertical soundstage. Everything just seems more engaging and in-your-face. The bass and midrange are definitely more impactful and powerful. Vocals are still surprisingly clear, although the treble does seem to have lost its shine a bit. 
 
Didn't notice a huge improvement at first, but it became much more obvious when I switched back and forth (volume matching as best as I could).
 
Overall, it seems like a great upgrade. Would a Speedball bring the treble/midrange a bit more forward?