[TheEldestBoy]

Does the HD650 need to be listened to louder than the HD600, in order to hear the same amount of detail?
Or visa-versa?
 
I want to go with whichever one will give me the most detail (bass presence, treble presence, clarity, detail, etc) at the lowest volumes.
 
I have a bit of sound sensitivity and can't listen at loud volumes.
 
BTW - I do appreciate that a certain amount of volume is necessary on any headphone, to start to hear sufficient bass and treble detail.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  Does the HD650 need to be listened to louder than the HD600, in order to hear the same amount of detail?
Or visa-versa?
 
I want to go with whichever one will give me the most detail (bass presence, treble presence, clarity, detail, etc) at the lowest volumes.
 
I have a bit of sound sensitivity and can't listen at loud volumes.
 
BTW - I do appreciate that a certain amount of volume is necessary on any headphone, to start to hear sufficient bass and treble detail.

All other things being equal (same amp, same DAC, etc), both HPs have the same impedance, so they both should have equal volumes at the same volume setting on the single amp/source.
 
If I wanted lots of detail at low volumes, I do a Grado PS500 or HE560. imo.

 

[TheEldestBoy]

 
All other things being equal (same amp, same DAC, etc), both HPs have the same impedance, so they both should have equal volumes at the same volume setting on the single amp/source.
 
If I wanted lots of detail at low volumes, I do a Grado PS500 or HE560. imo.

 
Thanks for the input.
 
Okay - you're saying that both should give the listener equal volumes (all other things being equal).  
Fine.  
But what I'm asking is, at equal volume, which headphone (the HD 600 or the HD650) will give me more detail (bass presence, treble presence, clarity, detail, etc)?

 

[ZoNtO]

 
All other things being equal (same amp, same DAC, etc), both HPs have the same impedance, so they both should have equal volumes at the same volume setting on the single amp/source.
 
If I wanted lots of detail at low volumes, I do a Grado PS500 or HE560. imo.

You're forgetting the crux of the matter: the sensitivity of the headphone drivers themselves.

1. HD600: Sound pressure level (SPL) 97 dB at 1kHz, 1 Vrms 
2. HD650: Sound pressure level (SPL) 103 dB at 1kHz, 1 Vrms 

 

[ZoNtO]

   
Thanks for the input.
 
Okay - you're saying that both should give the listener equal volumes (all other things being equal).  
Fine.  
But what I'm asking is, at equal volume, which headphone (the HD 600 or the HD650) will give me more detail (bass presence, treble presence, clarity, detail, etc)?

 
You're asking a question that is ambiguous. If you define detail as more treble presence, the HD600 is more "detailed" because its frequency response is elevated in the treble region as compared to the HD650. If you define detail as more bass presence, the HD650 is more "detailed" due its slightly elevated bass presence as compared to the HD600. If you define detail as clarity, that could mean vocal forwardness which means the HD600 would be more "detailed" due to the 3-4kHz bump in frequency response. However, clarity/detail could also mean resolution, at which the HD650 does better due to its more refined driver, better driver damping and enclosure tweaks.
 
I'd say if you listen at anything approaching healthy volumes 75-80dB+, start with the HD650. Listening to poorly recorded/mastered music at louder volumes on the HD600 is not enjoyable due to the midrange peak. 

 

[ColtMrFire]

Hi.  I used to own a pair of HD600s.  Twice.  Loved them both times, but was looking for more resolution and detail so sprang for a Beyer T90 and fell in love with it.  Been happily using it for a while, but I'm super curious about the HD650.  I actually had a bad experience demo'ing them from an Asgard 2... they sounded muddy and dark, totally turned me off.  But I keep hearing so many great things about the HD650.  Since I demoed them, I upgraded to a Valhalla 2 amp, and Modi multibit DAC... was the Asgard 2 simply a bad match?  Would the 650 sound better through Valhalla 2?  I was really not a fan of the muddy, congested sound from 650... even the HD600 sounded better through Asgard 2.

 

[TheEldestBoy]

   
You're asking a question that is ambiguous. If you define detail as more treble presence, the HD600 is more "detailed" because it's frequency response is elevated in the treble region as compared to the HD650. If you define detail as more bass presence, the HD650 is more "detailed" due it's slightly elevated bass presence as compared to the HD600. If you define detail as clarity, that could mean vocal forwardness which means the HD600 would be more "detailed" due to the 3-4kHz bump in frequency response. However, clarity could also mean resolution, at which the HD650 does better due to its more refined driver, better driver damping and enclosure tweaks.
 
I'd say if you listen at anything approaching healthy volumes 75-80dB+, start with the HD650. Listening to poorly recorded/mastered music at louder volumes on the HD600 is not enjoyable due to the midrange peak. 

 
Great info.
 
Based on what you're saying, I think the HD600 would be better for me because:
     --I'd prefer to hear more detail in the mid & treble ranges, as opposed to the bass.
     --I'll likely never be listening at volumes as high as 75-80 db

 

[ZoNtO]

You'd be surprised how easy it is to listen at volumes above 75-80dB, so I'd double-check that. And again, I'm not saying you'll hear more actual detail in those frequencies, I'm saying that the headphones' frequency responses differ from each other so you will hear more or less of certain frequencies. I'd prefer to define detail as resolution rather than tying it to a given frequency response. The HD650 is slightly more resolving (but the HD600 is no slouch). You won't really go wrong with either, and I'm nitpicking because I've spent a lot of time with them this past year.
 
Defining something as detailed because it has elevated treble leads people to view headphones like Grados and the HD800, which each have horribly exaggerated treble, as detailed for the wrong reason. This is false detail, as opposed to looking solely at how resolving the driver is. (The HD800 is very resolving, but its poor frequency response tuning sours the whole experience for a lot of people, including me.)
 
After spending the last six months to a year with the HD600, HD650 (stock and modded), and HD800 for various intervals and with overlap, if I had to pick one it would be the HD650 (either stock or modded, preference for the latter).

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  You're forgetting the crux of the matter: the sensitivity of the headphone drivers themselves.

1. HD600: Sound pressure level (SPL) 97 dB at 1kHz, 1 Vrms 
2. HD650: Sound pressure level (SPL) 103 dB at 1kHz, 1 Vrms 

Ah, I get it. Thanks for the numbers.

 

[raybone0566]

The asgard2 was a terrible match with the 650. Once I heard them on a otl amp. The Asgard went out the door. I wouldn't use that amp as a paper weight

 

[Odin412]

The asgard2 was a terrible match with the 650. Once I heard them on a otl amp. The Asgard went out the door. I wouldn't use that amp as a paper weight

 
I'm using the HD 650 with the Schiit Valhalla and I'm very happy with the results. What OTL amp did you end up using?

 

[raybone0566]

I'm using the HD 650 with the Schiit Valhalla and I'm very happy with the results. What OTL amp did you end up using?

Vahalia2 is an excellent amp for the 650. I'm currently using a Glenn otl

 

[ZoNtO]

Wanted to hear a Glenn OTL for a long time. Saw one being sold locally but chickened out and have regretted it ever since. Saw a Torpedo III being sold locally this year, and did not make the same mistake. Can recommend it wholeheartedly, and sold my Valhalla 2 the day I compared it to my T3.

 

[raybone0566]

Wanted to hear a Glenn OTL for a long time. Saw one being sold locally but chickened out and have regretted it ever since. Saw a Torpedo III being sold locally this year, and did not make the same mistake. Can recommend it wholeheartedly, and sold my Valhalla 2 the day I compared it to my T3.

Yes, I've read nothing but good things about that amp. From what I've read, they are so stuffed with upgrades they are not offering diy kits any longer because it's considered to tough for amateurs. I'd love to hear one. Great catch

 

[mark5hs]

Brand new owner of HD650 here. Just got them a couple weeks ago through an adorama deal for $280. Been using them with a standard Geek Pulse... really impressed. I read a lot of reviews calling them muddy and muffled but after listening, I'm convinced those folks didn't have a good enough source for the headphones. I like them even better than my beloved HE400. Less fatiguing, much more comfortable for long sessions. 
 
Question though. How much benefit would an aftermarket cable be, assuming I use the same Dac/amp? I'm not willing to spend $300 on a silver dragon cable, considering the headphones weren't that much... if I were, I would have just gotten a $600 headphone instead. So are there any cables, say, up to $120 that would give a worthwhile improvement over the stock cable?
 
Thanks