[mikoss]

Got my HD-800's back after lending them to a buddy for 6 months... trying to EQ them with Sonarworks to make them sound more like 650's, but it seems futile. 
 
For the people who advocate EQ'ing, I just feel like software EQ tends to result in a loss of fidelity from stock... for example, the 650's can resolve tape hiss, reverb etc like crazy on the track I was auditioning, but when I enable Sonarworks with the 800's, the tape hiss is gone, the reverb sucks, and I just feel like I've lost too many elements related to overall resolution.
 
The 800's have so many holy wow moments for me, but the biggest is how badly my ears hurt, so quickly while listening. I wish we had a new HD-650 that combined the two headphones... I don't think EQ or different amps can even do this. If someone has a SWHP file they'd like to share, I'm all ears.
 
Here's the song, from the brilliant Jadea Kelly:
https://soundcloud.com/divergent-recordings/10-count-on

 

[iancraig10]

Solderdude managed to design a filter for the hd800 that he says makes it similar to the hd650 filtered. He said that once they were levelled this way, the hd800 was a fraction better than the hd650 and that a great deal of what people call, 'detail' is the hyped up treble which gives that impression.

Once you even them both out, there not so much difference, with an edge to the hd800.

 

[penmarker]

IMHO, the great detail from the HD800 is actual detail, not just us mistaking treble boost as detail. A headphone I'd say sounds detailed but actually treble boosted is Beyer T90. HD800 also has the best soundstage in the affordable TOTL headphones class (minus obvious expensive choices like Stax SR009, JPS Abyss, etc). 
 
I find it a little hard to believe if HD800 sounds just a fraction better than HD650 after the filter, though it could be because the filter brings the HD800 level down to the HD650. That being said, I don't believe in more expensive = better headphones, or more recent model = better headphones, but I do firmly believe that HD800 is the better headphone when it comes to technicalities such as soundstage, imaging, detail retrieval, etc. Musicality is subjective however and I do believe choosing HD650 over HD800 is a valid choice.

 

[DougD]

  @catscratch^ Having a pair of HP for > a decade is probably a record, what with all the temptations to sell/"upgrade" floating around. Well done.  Meow.  

 
 

 
Quote:

  I've had my Stax SRD-34 since 1981 and Sennheiser HD-455 since 1983, both still work and I still use the SRD-34 once a week or so, still has a unique sound that none of my other headphones can match.  I had to do some repairs on them but they still function quite well.

 
Hah ! Nipped you by 3 years ... I bought my Stax SR-X Mk 3 in 1978. Still listen to it at least weekly. Did replace the pads.
 
Never going to sell my HD-650 either. But it is only vintage 2015.

 

[Soundpitchblack]

Hey guys I will be receiving my new pair of 650's tomorrow. ($300 factory refurbished on Crutchfield) I initially bought the hifiman he 400S and althought I like the sound quality built quality was another thing. What do you guys think of the differences between these headphones? If previously heard, thanx in advance

 

[Bloos]

Hey guys I will be receiving my new pair of 650's tomorrow. ($300 factory refurbished on Crutchfield) I initially bought the hifiman he 400S and althought I like the sound quality built quality was another thing. What do you guys think of the differences between these headphones? If previously heard, thanx in advance

I just demoed the 400Ss yesterday for about 15mins, and to my ears in that short amount of time, the 650s have a much more intimate soundstage and are perhaps more "natural" sounding (natural, being very subjective). Its Mids are exceptionally clear, and are absolutely lovely for vocals. Whereas the he400S have a greater surround sound feeling, and a larger soundstage but loses the intimate feeling of the 650s.

 

[DavidA]

 

That is a long time, congrats for taking the lead, wonder if there are others out there with long lives

 

[iancraig10]

I find it a little hard to believe if HD800 sounds just a fraction better than HD650 after the filter, though it could be because the filter brings the HD800 level down to the HD650. That being said, I don't believe in more expensive = better headphones, or more recent model = better headphones, but I do firmly believe that HD800 is the better headphone when it comes to technicalities such as soundstage, imaging, detail retrieval, etc. Musicality is subjective however and I do believe choosing HD650 over HD800 is a valid choice.

It's a valid choice and Solderdude did say to me that it had an edge over the hd650 when filtered. He also said, (although I'm not sure he wrote it) that a lot of the 'perceived' detail was to do with its opennness and treble response with a large peak up around 10khz I think it was. In fact, it started his ears to ring!!

It's a great headphone, yes, but still with its own set of problems, which can be annoying at its price.

The article I'm talking about is here...

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/

You have to scroll down to the hd800. He also compares it with the hd650. Above 20khz, he says that it doesn't do much more than a Senn hd650 as well.

To wet your appetite .......


The sharp rise and the peaks in the treble area make the HD800 sound so ‘thin’, ‘bright’ and ‘highly detailed’. Flat and ‘accurate’ the HD800 is absolutely NOT.


Yes, the HD800 is relatively ‘bass-shy’, ‘bright’ and less accurate.


I was surprised as well. Solderdude didn't bring 'musicality' into it. He purely measured both and compared.

 

[ubs28]

I disagree. The HD 650 also sounds thin next to a Shure SE846 on the same amplifier + DAC despite the Shure SE846 having the speed and clarity more in line with the HD 800. Details, speed and clarity is not due to frequency response but is a result of the technical performance. 

 

[iancraig10]

I'm sure the apeed and clarity is also due to the technical performance, but the article makes very interesting reading. I just took two quotes from his article.

Makes the hd650 look like a bargain really.

Solderdude has made a filter for the hd800 to fit inside the Kameleon amp which he designed along with the Garage 1217 amps. He measures headphones in order to develop the filters for them.

 

[penmarker]

Ah okay, I'd make positive claims too if I wanna sell my product.

 

[iancraig10]

He doesn't sell anything. He just designs them for Garage 1217.

He's sold no Kameleons either. He put the design into the public domain on his site. It's a diy amp. Eventually, Garage 1217 might sell add on filter units for their amps.

Basically eq done in a slightly different way, based on actual measurements that he's taken feom the headphones.

I presume that you read the article?

He owns the hd800 but isn't 'protective' of it in any way and treats it as he would any other headphone.

 

[whirlwind]

 

I find it a little hard to believe if HD800 sounds just a fraction better than HD650 after the filter, though it could be because the filter brings the HD800 level down to the HD650. That being said, I don't believe in more expensive = better headphones, or more recent model = better headphones, but I do firmly believe that HD800 is the better headphone when it comes to technicalities such as soundstage, imaging, detail retrieval, etc. Musicality is subjective however and I do believe choosing HD650 over HD800 is a valid choice.

It's a valid choice and Solderdude did say to me that it had an edge over the hd650 when filtered. He also said, (although I'm not sure he wrote it) that a lot of the 'perceived' detail was to do with its opennness and treble response with a large peak up around 10khz I think it was. In fact, it started his ears to ring!!

It's a great headphone, yes, but still with its own set of problems, which can be annoying at its price.

The article I'm talking about is here...

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/

You have to scroll down to the hd800. He also compares it with the hd650. Above 20khz, he says that it doesn't do much more than a Senn hd650 as well.

To wet your appetite .......


The sharp rise and the peaks in the treble area make the HD800 sound so ‘thin’, ‘bright’ and ‘highly detailed’. Flat and ‘accurate’ the HD800 is absolutely NOT.


Yes, the HD800 is relatively ‘bass-shy’, ‘bright’ and less accurate.


I was surprised as well. Solderdude didn't bring 'musicality' into it. He purely measured both and compared.

I have owned the HD650 two times...I love it, it is a wonderful headphone, fantastic actually....but it does not match the HD800 for me in sound quality....anywhere across the spectrum.
 
I have used the HD800 as my main can for over a year now, and everytime I put it down and put the HD650 on....noticeable difference across the spectrum...but really, that should not be a surprise...but people who call the HD800 bass light compared to the HD650, just are not listening to the HD800 with gear that can change that.
 
I do not find the HD800 bright, i know some do and prefer the hD650 because of that....honestly I do not find the HD650 to be all that dark, as many people say it is and I have owned it twice and heard it on some nice gear.
 
There may be certain types of music that someone may prefer with the HD650..but it is not in the same league as the HD800 overall...it just isn't.....of course as they say...YMMV
 
I will probably visit the HD650 for a third time some where down the line....but not because I like it better than the HD800.
 
I actually think that the way the HD800 is dropping in price, that it is soon to be the best bang for your buck TOTL headphone, if it is not already.
 
Just my 2 cents  

 

 

[iancraig10]

I am assuming the hd800 is a better headphone tbh. I think some might get 'over protective' and criticsms might look harsh, but I don't meant it to look like that.

It's just interesting that Solderdude got their frequency responses to a relatively similar position and then compared.

He doesn't like it as it is because of the treble peak.

I'd like to get one myself, but I'm going to wait for a price drop, I think, if one ever happens.

 

[Tuneslover]

That is a long time, congrats for taking the lead, wonder if there are others out there with long lives

I still have my first ever headphones, the Sennheiser HD414 (white, not black) which I bought as a teenager in the early/mid 1970's in Germany. Apparently the 414's were the worlds first open back headphones and are the worlds best selling headphone. I listen to them occasionally but reading this thread inspired me to plug them into my Lake People G109S (fed by Schiit Bifrost MB). Thankfully the G109S has tons of clean power as the 414's need lots of juice. Anyway these babies sound very good indeed! I need to put these into circulation again. The only thing I've replaced on them are the foam ear pads (several times over the years).