[Jeff Y]

I sometimes hear voices, mainly telling me to stop being childish & grow up. I just ignore them.

lol
But I am a child... being 17 on Head-fi and hearing someone telling me to stop being childish is tough.
I thought audio was for everyone.

 

[Jeff Y]

   
I have the same question with Grados, but they certainly have their fans. I have a feeling that there's no way to explain precisely why anyone likes any given sound sig unless it's something hyperapparent like being a basshead. I had the DT770 and just wasn't a huge fan of them. Comfy as all heck but didn't really get the appeal. Obviously there's a reason behind all the fans, and that reason is not everyone has the same set of ears.
 
I don't understand how people like mushrooms or black olives on pizza, but they do, I just won't get 'em myself.

Good reasoning. It's just that the timbre and bass that doesn't work out for me when it comes to Beyerdynamics but people hear different things.
 
I think people like Grados because they are so exotic or extreme in their voicing. Beyers on the other hand are not as unique sounding as certain Grados imo (not that I'm a fan of Grados nor am I a Beyer hater) so... I don't get what the deal is but if people like them, let them buy them

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  Good reasoning. It's just that the timbre and bass that doesn't work out for me when it comes to Beyerdynamics but people hear different things.
 
I think people like Grados because they are so exotic or extreme in their voicing. Beyers on the other hand are not as unique sounding as certain Grados imo (not that I'm a fan of Grados nor am I a Beyer hater) so... I don't get what the deal is but if people like them, let them buy them

 
Far as I can tell it's just shades of preference. No the Beyers aren't exotic, but they just lean in the direction some folks like. Same with the AKG's. Maybe you're extra sensitive to treble (age could be a factor). There are plenty of people who find the HD650 muddy and thick, and rave about the T90/T1 for being so revealing. With that monster treble spike I'm not sure it sounds like that to many, I'm just not sure I'm on board with the notion, though admittedly I haven't heard 'em. 

 

[Olympus Mons]

I own a pair of Grado RS1i's that I purchased awhile back mainly for rock music, they are obviously quite colored but I still appreciate the fun/exciting aspect about them. When I first bought them I was surprised I thought the treble would be hotter but I find them pretty smooth for the most part. It can get kinda peaky at times but it seems that comes about more from poorer recordings rather than the headphones themselves. Comfort is a little bothersome, I usually adjust them for a little while until I hit the "sweet spot" then it seems fine... at least they aren't heavy. Overall I really like them and I really want to try them with g-cushions.

 

[Jeff Y]

   
Far as I can tell it's just shades of preference. No the Beyers aren't exotic, but they just lean in the direction some folks like. Same with the AKG's. Maybe you're extra sensitive to treble (age could be a factor). There are plenty of people who find the HD650 muddy and thick, and rave about the T90/T1 for being so revealing. With that monster treble spike I'm not sure it sounds like that to many, I'm just not sure I'm on board with the notion, though admittedly I haven't heard 'em. 

Phillips X2 seems to be catching a lot of people's eyes and ears as well though I don't find them to be to my liking either.
A bit V-shaped sounding though maybe a bit more balanced than X1, loose bass (something everyone seems to think the opposite of), mids that are a bit laid back, and highs that seems to need more sparkle.

Conclusion for myself: I should listen to headphones myself not through other's words due to differing preferences.

 

[Jeff Y]

  I own a pair of Grado RS1i's that I purchased awhile back mainly for rock music, they are obviously quite colored but I still appreciate the fun/exciting aspect about them. When I first bought them I was surprised I thought the treble would be hotter but I find them pretty smooth for the most part. It can get kinda peaky at times but it seems that comes about more from poorer recordings rather than the headphones themselves. Comfort is a little bothersome, I usually adjust them for a little while until I hit the "sweet spot" then it seems fine... at least they aren't heavy. Overall I really like them and I really want to try them with g-cushions.

I think they're the sweetest sounding (not hot treble) with treble and all around compared to all the other Grados in the i-series. I like the RS1i's okay as well as the 1000i's (I think they sound similar with the RS1i sounding even sweeter and coloured) for what they do but I just couldn't justify the price when they're not neutral sounding at all (so I can't listen to all my genres with Grados). I hope I can get one someday though, only if I can manage to stop coming up with an ever-increasing list of things to buy of mine. They're pretty special. Also special for me is Stax which I would like to get next.

 

[bracko]

  Just to get facts right, the T1 is being replaced by a new version.
 
 
Factual discussion: What do people find appealing about Beyerdynamics in general? I can't really come up with music that I like when listening to Beyers. Their sound balance in general just makes a lot of music sound unnatural imo. Still, there are tons of people who like Beyerdynamics so there must be a reason behind all the fans.
 
 

 
Nothing strange with T1 being replaced after more than five years (?). That's what many other manufacturers do (take Audeze or Hifiman). They listen to their users and make changes. Some never do (take Sennheiser)
 
What you write about the sound balance of Beyers is your personal opinion, not a fact. I could say exactly the same about AKG and their unnatural mids and plasticky sound but I can accept there are thousands of people actually enjoying AKG. Many people think Sennheisers are veiled and lacking in details. I can accept that. We have different ears and different preferences in the head-fi world and we are very subjective. I have no problems with Beyer at all. Actually I love their crispy sound and think they are a great complement to Sennheiser's house sound (warm and laid-back). But this is my personal opinion. 
 
The problem with childish remarks of the kind you did is that you are making fools of people who actually love a certain sound signature. That is disrespectful and not fair.

 

[mysticstryk]

Phillips X2 seems to be catching a lot of people's eyes and ears as well though I don't find them to be to my liking either.
A bit V-shaped sounding though maybe a bit more balanced than X1, loose bass (something everyone seems to think the opposite of), mids that are a bit laid back, and highs that seems to need more sparkle.


Conclusion for myself: I should listen to headphones myself not through other's words due to differing preferences.

I have the X2 and its that lack of mids and slightly harsh highs that is making me shop around for a different headphone.

I know the HD650 likes tube amps, but would a SS like magni2 uber work well? I may end up getting a tube later next year if money permits.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  Phillips X2 seems to be catching a lot of people's eyes and ears as well though I don't find them to be to my liking either.
A bit V-shaped sounding though maybe a bit more balanced than X1, loose bass (something everyone seems to think the opposite of), mids that are a bit laid back, and highs that seems to need more sparkle.

Conclusion for myself: I should listen to headphones myself not through other's words due to differing preferences.

 
Do not confuse pronounced bass with "loose" bass. This is one of my pet peeves in audiophilia. Everyone instantly claims that any headphone with lifted bass is "loose" and "flabby" when if you actually pay attention to the tones it's producing that isn't the case even slightly. The X1's bass wasn't loose at all either. There's just more of it. The kind of bass that comes out of the X1 (and I assume the X2 by extension) is no different than if you turned up the volume on a headphone with more "accurate" bass. Argh. 
 
I also am rather baffled that you're talking about the tinnitus-causing T90 while praising the RS1, a headphone that sounds to me like someone forgot the entire bass end of the spectrum in the shop when they went out for shipping. It was one of the few headphones to make me literally wince when I listened. I mean the RS1 spikes just as hard at the exact same spot in the frequency curve but it has the added "benefit" of a catastrophic dropoff in all bass freqs under 100Hz. 
 
But again, ears differ. 

 

[Olympus Mons]

   
Do not confuse pronounced bass with "loose" bass. This is one of my pet peeves in audiophilia. Everyone instantly claims that any headphone with lifted bass is "loose" and "flabby" when if you actually pay attention to the tones it's producing that isn't the case even slightly. The X1's bass wasn't loose at all either. There's just more of it. The kind of bass that comes out of the X1 (and I assume the X2 by extension) is no different than if you turned up the volume on a headphone with more "accurate" bass. Argh. 
 
I also am rather baffled that you're talking about the tinnitus-causing T90 while praising the RS1, a headphone that sounds to me like someone forgot the entire bass end of the spectrum in the shop when they went out for shipping. It was one of the few headphones to make me literally wince when I listened. I mean the RS1 spikes just as hard at the exact same spot in the frequency curve but it has the added "benefit" of a catastrophic dropoff in all bass freqs under 100Hz. 
 
But again, ears differ. 

Have you tried the RS1i's? From what I've read in the past it seems the original RS1's were more aggressive and hot compared to the RS1i's.

 

[Jeff Y]

   
Nothing strange with T1 being replaced after more than five years (?). That's what many other manufacturers do (take Audeze or Hifiman). They listen to their users and make changes. Some never do (take Sennheiser)
 
What you write about the sound balance of Beyers is your personal opinion, not a fact. I could say exactly the same about AKG and their unnatural mids and plasticky sound but I can accept there are thousands of people actually enjoying AKG. Many people think Sennheisers are veiled and lacking in details. I can accept that. We have different ears and different preferences in the head-fi world and we are very subjective. I have no problems with Beyer at all. Actually I love their crispy sound and think they are a great complement to Sennheiser's house sound (warm and laid-back). But this is my personal opinion. 
 
The problem with childish remarks of the kind you did is that you are making fools of people who actually love a certain sound signature. That is disrespectful and not fair.

Below are my personal thoughts:
I think the same about AKGs as well. I actually used to think the same about Beyers as you do as well (about complementing Sennheisers well) when I first got into headphone listening but over time, I began to believe that Beyers sound unnatural due to its sound signature and that takes away from the experience of listening to music itself (other than the fact that it sounds unnatural to me which is a con in itself imo). So to me at least, Beyers (or any headphone that sounds off to me) does not really let me listen to the music but rather a biased form of the original form. I am very connected to my music (which consist of all genres) and feel that at times certain sound signatures just cannot do the job well enough to sound natural while some do like the 650 or the HP50. No headphone is perfect at sounding natural so this is the reason why I think about headphones and have this as a hobby. Otherwise I would buy the pair I need and not go on Head-fi. Also, I like neutral sounding headphones which does not exactly equal natural but still goes after a natural sound than headphones that are not neutral. All in all, I like natural sounding headphones that are optimally neutral although neutral does not = natural and vice versa.
 
Yes, I get the problem you're pointing our. But at times, everyone's gotta have some fun and be a child. I haven't come across any adult who I've gotten to know well who isn't as childish as I am at times. Head-fi shouldn't be a forum for serious adult males but a place for everyone where jokes shouldn't really be seen as disrespectful as long as there is no real personal hate or profanity between certain people.
But you know what, I should not be dictating other people's actions and nor should anyone else. I do not wish to seem disrespectful and not fair but if I seem like I am being that way in my occasional childish remarks or certain opinions that seem contradicting to other people's, one can either ignore and move on or feel offended if one wishes to do so.
Make no mistake. I don't like Beyers, AKGs, most Grados, Audezes, older generation HiFiMans, and more but it's only natural and it my personal opinion. While I would never try to make fools of people who love those headphones, I understand that some people who do love them from time to time will say that it's not right. I cannot argue against someone else's preferences. So I will move on.

 

[Jeff Y]

   
Do not confuse pronounced bass with "loose" bass. This is one of my pet peeves in audiophilia. Everyone instantly claims that any headphone with lifted bass is "loose" and "flabby" when if you actually pay attention to the tones it's producing that isn't the case even slightly. The X1's bass wasn't loose at all either. There's just more of it. The kind of bass that comes out of the X1 (and I assume the X2 by extension) is no different than if you turned up the volume on a headphone with more "accurate" bass. Argh. 
 
I also am rather baffled that you're talking about the tinnitus-causing T90 while praising the RS1, a headphone that sounds to me like someone forgot the entire bass end of the spectrum in the shop when they went out for shipping. It was one of the few headphones to make me literally wince when I listened. I mean the RS1 spikes just as hard at the exact same spot in the frequency curve but it has the added "benefit" of a catastrophic dropoff in all bass freqs under 100Hz. 
 
But again, ears differ. 

I find this funny lol (no disrespect meant)
It is also one of my pet peeves as well. I do not think I am confusing the two. It's just that I find the bass decay is looser than other headphones like the 650 or HP50. I get what you're saying completely.
 
No, I don't mean to be praising the RS1, I find that it's so extreme in what it does that, it's quite an experience to try it out. I find Grados more painful than Beyers (or equal or worse YMMV depending on the model) but like I have said, I just meant to say it's quite something to try out. It's like trying exotic dishes with flavours you've never tasted before.
 
Yes, ears do differ.

 

[bracko]

   
I also am rather baffled that you're talking about the tinnitus-causing T90 while praising the RS1, a headphone that sounds to me like someone forgot the entire bass end of the spectrum in the shop when they went out for shipping. 

 
hehe ... 

 He was actually talking about T1 causing tinnitus. 

 

[Jeff Y]

   
hehe ... 

 He was actually talking about T1 causing tinnitus. 

Should have said hyperacusis-worsening.
I wonder how warm the new version well be though since Beyerdynamic said that the new version is going to be having more warmth to sound more musical.
I feel bad that I'm dragging the thread off topic now. :O
Cheers.

 

[Music Path]

I had the LCD-2's before the HD650's. 

"Best headphone" is a hard term to use. I have no idea if the HD650s are the best headphones. All I know is I sold my Audeze rig, and thus far I don't regret having done so. I could see myself with some Audezes again someday if I ever have money falling out my ears, but I can't say I wish I'd kept them.

Obviously stacked point to point the HD650s can't beat the flagships. But there's a weird thing that starts happening: the Audeze were SO detailed and SO high quality it was like I was listening to the headphones, not to the music any more. I'd wager that effect only worsens the higher up the scale you go. I found myself trying to find recordings that maximized the Audezes rather than picking music I like. Not a fan of that. 

The 650s are in this really sweet spot where they'll do whatever you need, but not more than you need. No genre sounds bad with them, even if they don't shine in one or another the way others do. They're a jack of all trades, even if they're not quite a master of any of them. They're the rare headphone where I feel like you can go "it doesn't matter what kind of music you like, these will work." They're not prohibitively expensive, they don't need the perfect amplifier (although they scale), they have a great fit, they're not heavy, they look sharp, are great for gaming as well as music... so yeah. In a way, I can see why they are "the best headphone". 

No wonder they are number one on head fi for IMO.
I want to complement the HD650 with something.
My ideas are he400S, he500 , he560 , or lcd2 but last one is to expensive even used for me.
Brighter options are HD800 and T1.
Before i felt i was more decided, now i m less.
Cant test all those HPs nearby,
trying to find help, because im a bit undecided. Just leaning more to he500.

The hd650 have great scaling with tubes, the flaghsips prices dont justify with todays HD650 and HD600 prices.
They just seem to do some stuff better, but not overall better.