Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread
Dec 28, 2014 at 8:43 AM Post #21,466 of 46,513
  Has anyone tried Bifrost > Magni 2 > HD650 ? Would you share some experiences about this configuration ? 
I am considering order Bifrost instead of Modi as MM model :D
 
Thank you so much!

 
I didn't find that the Magni 2u was a giant killer. I thought that it sounded "pretty good." I guess that is an improvement over the original which I thought sounded somewhat thin and metallic. For the price it's a nice offering.
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 10:35 AM Post #21,468 of 46,513
^^ It's been some time since I've owned the Vali. To my recollection, the Vali added the tube wetness that brought more enjoyment to the experience. My Vali was prone to ringing so that aspect detracted from the music. I was able to tone down the microphonic issues with the Vali by using blutack.
 
If I had to choose between the two I'd go with the Vali.
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 12:53 PM Post #21,469 of 46,513
I have a DX90 that powers my HD-650s well-enough for a quiet room, and had a great DAC, and nice detail, but still a little on the anemic-side for what I know the HD-650s CAN sound like through my SCHIIT ASGARD 2.

My iPhone 5 and iPad Air just don't have enough juice to drive the 650's with authority and the FIIO e17 is great, but only as an amp, not as an AMP/DAC.

If you want portability I find that my iFi iDSD MICRO does an excellent job driving my HD-650s and the DAC is TRULY outstanding.  To my ears, if the ASGARD 2 desktop amp is 100%. then:

iFi iDSD MICRO with either APPLE iPhones or iPads (I have units of each going back to the original 1st gens) or iBASSO DX90 = 90% of ASGARD 2 in Home stack setup.
FIIO e17 with APPLE iPhones or iPads or iBASSO DX90 = 75% of ASGARD 2 in Home stack setup.  Sounds "Pretty good"
DX90 by itself = 70% of ASGARD 2 in Home stack setup  (Great DAC, but amp is just not quite strong enough to pull out the HD-650s FULL potential  Sounds "okay"
iPhone 5/iPad Air by itself = 50% of ASGARD 2 in Home stack setup.  Lacking refinement of the better DACs and the amps, while just adequate volume-wise, don't sound great.

My HD-650 summary:  (NOTE:  This is for my HD-650s ONLY.  All my other headphones are driven quite capably by any device I own without need of an external amp)
[COLOR=0000FF]PORTABLE[/COLOR]
BASIC CONSUMER-GRADE sound = Later-gen Apple products | Original generations MUST be used with SOME Amp or they aren't even loud enough for listening in a silent room
GOOD CONSUMER-GRADE sound = Sansa e270, Samsung YP-P2 sound better than Apples playing same MP3 files.
ENTRY AUDIOPHILE-GRADE sound = iBASSO DX90, or Apple Devices with FIIO e17 amp (Can't get the DAC to work with these devices, so just amping them)
GOOD AUDIOPHILE-GRADE sound = iBASSO DX90, or Apple Devices with iFi iDSD MICRO actingas DAC and amplifier.

[COLOR=FF0000]NOT PORTABLE[/COLOR]
SOLID AUDIOPHILE-GRADE sound = JRIVER Media Center20 on Shielded Home Theater setup with iFi iDSD MICRO acting as DAC and SCHIIT ASGARD 2 amplifier.
"SUPERIOR" AUDIOPHILE-GRADE sound = I'll let you know when I stumble upon it...  I'm not there yet.

I hope that my opinions from personal experiences from equipment I own help at least a little.  I won't comment on any equipment I've just auditioned, as that isn't a fair comparison to my own equipment that I've played with and "tweaked" to my liking over time in my view.

Ken N.

I recently bought HD 650 with Zu Mobius cable. Currently listening through my Note 3. In order to get better SQ, I'm thinking of getting DX90 as I don't want to sacrifice the portability factor within the house. What other amp can you suggest along DX90 in order to drive the HD 650 to their full potential. Can I expect a significant improvement as compared to my current setup?
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 1:04 PM Post #21,470 of 46,513
I recently bought HD 650 with Zu Mobius cable. Currently listening through my Note 3. In order to get better SQ, I'm thinking of getting DX90 as I don't want to sacrifice the portability factor within the house. What other amp can you suggest along DX90 in order to drive the HD 650 to their full potential. Can I expect a significant improvement as compared to my current setup?


I don't know where you are but the European Note 3 sounds terrible. I paired mine with a Fiio E18 and it sounds superb. It's a bit bulky but technically portable.
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 2:13 PM Post #21,471 of 46,513
The Beyer DT770 are well know for requiring burning in the bass is bloomy and unfocused and the top end suffers from sibilance after 30 hrs there is a very noticeable improvement and the items listed come good. 


I love everything about my 650. Is the Beyer DT770 similar with regard to sonic signature and comfort but being closed I'm looking for decent isolation from ambient sounds. Is the DT770 good for this? My amp is a Valhalla. Thx
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 3:31 PM Post #21,473 of 46,513
I recently bought HD 650 with Zu Mobius cable. Currently listening through my Note 3. In order to get better SQ, I'm thinking of getting DX90 as I don't want to sacrifice the portability factor within the house. What other amp can you suggest along DX90 in order to drive the HD 650 to their full potential. Can I expect a significant improvement as compared to my current setup?


I don't want to sound like a broken record, but as far as PORTABLE solutions go, I can't think of a setup that I've been told about, read about, or listened to that drives the HD-650s better than the iDSD Micro without including the Chord HUGO ($2500 USD). For all other headphones that I've listened to, the amp in the DX90 was amply-powerful enough on its own.

In my book:
DX90 alone = Acceptable for the HD-650s, but a little anemic and not quite as wide a soundstage or as clear a separation as the next options. Still TONS better than my iPhones or iPads by themselves in terms of volume, SQ, Dynamic Range, and responsiveness for both PCM (MP3s) and DSD files. Though the DSD files make more of a difference in terms of improvement over the Apple devices natively.

DX90 with FIIO e17 = A little more power and ability to pull more BASS, (or Treble, but I never hear a need for it) if desired, but the DAC used is still the DX90s. (Which is pretty darn good.)

DX90 with iDSD Micro = Truly impressive! The best portable solution I've heard. Soundstage is "appropriate" for classical and pop music alike. (By appropriate, I mean the instruments surround you without feeling artificially stretched/expanded. Just "natural and wide".). There is also an added level of clarity to the HD-650s that I don't get from the previous portable solutions. I guess it's what many call "the Sennheiser veil". The veil is not noticeable to me at all with this combo unless I compare it to a powerful, dedicated, headphone amp like my SCHIIT Audio ASGARD 2. Even the headphone out of our Panasonic surround sound rack unit in our home theater doesn't make them sound as clear as the iDSD Micro or ASGARD 2 does.

IPhone 4S, 5, or iPad Air with iDSD Micro = The same as the DX90 with the iDSD Micro, but there is MUCH less expandability to fit all the songs I want. The bonus of being able to drop 128GB microSD cards into the DX90 is HUGELY superior to me over the 32 or 64GB SHARED storage I have on any of the Apple devices we have.

In hotel rooms/visiting family and friends or mobile moving around home: use HD-650s
Simple setup = iPhone 5 with iDSD Micro - lightest combo, but no more than 2 or 3 Albums fit along with the photos and video, and other apps taking up space....
Preferred setup = DX90 with iDSD Micro - slightly bulkier footprint and just slightly heavier, but enough storage space between the 8GB internal memory and the 128GB cards to carry every album or song I care to.

During Travel: use other headphones
Simple setup & Preferred setup = DX90 alone. I never use my HD-650s in public as they are open back, and not ideal for public listening. Bass FREQs for in-ear sound isolation, or Photive PH-BTX6 headphones are driven beautifully by the DX90. I never need to turn the volume past 11 or 12-o'clock. The Koss PortaPros leak more sound than I would like, but are great in the airport if you can find some space away from others. I would feel rude using them on the plane though.
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 3:46 PM Post #21,474 of 46,513
I love everything about my 650. Is the Beyer DT770 similar with regard to sonic signature and comfort but being closed I'm looking for decent isolation from ambient sounds. Is the DT770 good for this? My amp is a Valhalla. Thx

 
I don't think it is all that similar from what I've read. I'd also like a closed headphone that has the same signature as the 650. I'm not looking for or expecting exactly the same sound & I'm willing to trade some atmosphere & detail but something that would allow me to wear them in bed with my wife asleep next to me would be cool. My wife nearly went through the roof the first time I tried the 650 in bed.
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM Post #21,475 of 46,513
They're not similar from what I've had on my head.  
 
Beyer: thumpy boomy bass and tilted up top with a glare
Senn: smooth all across and tilted down on top
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM Post #21,476 of 46,513
I love everything about my 650. Is the Beyer DT770 similar with regard to sonic signature and comfort but being closed I'm looking for decent isolation from ambient sounds. Is the DT770 good for this? My amp is a Valhalla. Thx

 
No their sonic signature is nothing like the 650's they are very good phones for the money imho and have a more open top end to them than the 650's resolution is good on par but they don't have the same quality and depth of tone as 650's. As Zorrofox mentions below I find them a expectable trade off to allow some late night listening which is the reason I brought them. I did notice they are quiet popular for modifying whist reading up on them something I might try in the future. 
 
   
I don't think it is all that similar from what I've read. I'd also like a closed headphone that has the same signature as the 650. I'm not looking for or expecting exactly the same sound & I'm willing to trade some atmosphere & detail but something that would allow me to wear them in bed with my wife asleep next to me would be cool. My wife nearly went through the roof the first time I tried the 650 in bed.

 
I went for the DT770 for exactly that reason. I have a small desk top pc set up as a media server in the bedroom with a 25 inch screen, wireless controlled keyboard mouse and she used to hit the roof about light pollution as well as noise from the open back phones. My solution was to buy the Beyer 770's (they seal and isolate very well and she cant hear them playing whilst laying next to me reading or trying to get off to sleep) it was also a excuse to buy a new phone (well second hand) to replace the 10 year old brick I have been using. So for late night listening I now use my mobile to stream tracks to my dac and have the pc and its monitor turned off so I don't disturbing her.
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 7:15 PM Post #21,477 of 46,513
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but as far as PORTABLE solutions go, I can't think of a setup that I've been told about, read about, or listened to that drives the HD-650s better than the iDSD Micro without including the Chord HUGO ($2500 USD). For all other headphones that I've listened to, the amp in the DX90 was amply-powerful enough on its own.

In my book:
DX90 alone = Acceptable for the HD-650s, but a little anemic and not quite as wide a soundstage or as clear a separation as the next options. Still TONS better than my iPhones or iPads by themselves in terms of volume, SQ, Dynamic Range, and responsiveness for both PCM (MP3s) and DSD files. Though the DSD files make more of a difference in terms of improvement over the Apple devices natively.

DX90 with FIIO e17 = A little more power and ability to pull more BASS, (or Treble, but I never hear a need for it) if desired, but the DAC used is still the DX90s. (Which is pretty darn good.)

DX90 with iDSD Micro = Truly impressive! The best portable solution I've heard. Soundstage is "appropriate" for classical and pop music alike. (By appropriate, I mean the instruments surround you without feeling artificially stretched/expanded. Just "natural and wide".). There is also an added level of clarity to the HD-650s that I don't get from the previous portable solutions. I guess it's what many call "the Sennheiser veil". The veil is not noticeable to me at all with this combo unless I compare it to a powerful, dedicated, headphone amp like my SCHIIT Audio ASGARD 2. Even the headphone out of our Panasonic surround sound rack unit in our home theater doesn't make them sound as clear as the iDSD Micro or ASGARD 2 does.

IPhone 4S, 5, or iPad Air with iDSD Micro = The same as the DX90 with the iDSD Micro, but there is MUCH less expandability to fit all the songs I want. The bonus of being able to drop 128GB microSD cards into the DX90 is HUGELY superior to me over the 32 or 64GB SHARED storage I have on any of the Apple devices we have.

In hotel rooms/visiting family and friends or mobile moving around home: use HD-650s
Simple setup = iPhone 5 with iDSD Micro - lightest combo, but no more than 2 or 3 Albums fit along with the photos and video, and other apps taking up space....
Preferred setup = DX90 with iDSD Micro - slightly bulkier footprint and just slightly heavier, but enough storage space between the 8GB internal memory and the 128GB cards to carry every album or song I care to.

During Travel: use other headphones
Simple setup & Preferred setup = DX90 alone. I never use my HD-650s in public as they are open back, and not ideal for public listening. Bass FREQs for in-ear sound isolation, or Photive PH-BTX6 headphones are driven beautifully by the DX90. I never need to turn the volume past 11 or 12-o'clock. The Koss PortaPros leak more sound than I would like, but are great in the airport if you can find some space away from others. I would feel rude using them on the plane though.


I've heard the Cayin C5 sounds is almost on par with the iCan Micro. I'm not sure how well that translates with the iDSD Micro, but the Cayin C5 and Sennheiser 650s are another excellent portable solution.
 
Dec 28, 2014 at 7:49 PM Post #21,478 of 46,513
  I went for the DT770 for exactly that reason. I have a small desk top pc set up as a media server in the bedroom with a 25 inch screen, wireless controlled keyboard mouse and she used to hit the roof about light pollution as well as noise from the open back phones. My solution was to buy the Beyer 770's (they seal and isolate very well and she cant hear them playing whilst laying next to me reading or trying to get off to sleep) it was also a excuse to buy a new phone (well second hand) to replace the 10 year old brick I have been using. So for late night listening I now use my mobile to stream tracks to my dac and have the pc and its monitor turned off so I don't disturbing her.

 
Yeah, that's the reason my computer now has it's own room - light pollution. I love my 650's but sometimes I feel I'm sitting in a chair when I should really be in a bed, hence my desire for something closed. I'll look into the DT770 a bit more & see what the general consensus is. I do like the build quality of Beyer. Which version do you have? I see there are various versions of differing impedance.
 
Dec 29, 2014 at 3:37 AM Post #21,479 of 46,513
   
Yeah, that's the reason my computer now has it's own room - light pollution. I love my 650's but sometimes I feel I'm sitting in a chair when I should really be in a bed, hence my desire for something closed. I'll look into the DT770 a bit more & see what the general consensus is. I do like the build quality of Beyer. Which version do you have? I see there are various versions of differing impedance.

 
I have the 250 ohm version
 
Dec 29, 2014 at 6:24 AM Post #21,480 of 46,513
NooB here who just got the HD650's and knows nothing about amps.  Feel pretty lost.  A few questions/comments:
 
Given:  I desire fun, warm, dynamic sound.  That's why I got HD650 to begin with.  I loved my M-audio Q40's, for $100 range headphones.  I am upgrading from a Behringer HA400 amp ($25) That can easily make the HD650's too loud for comfort, but I have heard my friends pair of 650's powered by his home stereo unit and want them to sound like that!  I do NOT need portability, am "pretty sure" I don't need a DAC, and don't wanna spend much more than $200 if possible.  Maybe I could go higher.  I see this "Asgard 2" for $250 on amazon sounds like the default choice, but do I really need that?  
 
I see this Monoprice amp (http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=120&cp_id=12008&cs_id=1200801&p_id=11567&seq=1&format=2) offers 150mw @ 300Ohm.  How do I know if this is good enough?  Suppose something offers 175mw @ 300Ohm - how much better is this? Will this amp sound Warm?
 
A similar amp is this JDS amp: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/35/objective2-headphone-amplifier/  But someone a couple pages back said it was "cold" - not the sound I want.  

Finally there are TUBE AMPS such as this one that I just missed on Massdrop (I only know what Massdrap is as of 5 mins ago, LOL): http://www.amazon.com/DarkVoice-336SE-Headphone-Tube-Amplifier/dp/B00CF9JON8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1419849962&sr=8-2&keywords=336se
 
What do TUBES add to the sound vs an amp without TUBES?  What's the purpose of a tube and how important is it? 0-o  I like the idea, from how people talk about them.
 
Thanks for reading.  I'm looking forward to making these great HP's shine in the next couple weeks.  =)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top