[Caphead78]

Well my 650's are inbound, just have to find the proper amp now... I have been looking at the Asgard or M-Stage, but since all of you seem to like tubes do you have any suggestions for a reasonably priced tube amp? (maybe little dot?)

 

[PANGES]

Where did you order yours from, and for how much? Mine are still backordered from headphone.com and I'm tempted to just cancel and order from somewhere else if I can find a good deal.

 
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Well my 650's are inbound, just have to find the proper amp now... I have been looking at the Asgard or M-Stage, but since all of you seem to like tubes do you have any suggestions for a reasonably priced tube amp? (maybe little dot?)

 

[Caphead78]

I got mine on the FS forums, though I saw the price on amazon dropped recently IIRC. Good luck finding some!

 

[KnightK]

You can't go wrong with the Darkvoice 337 + HD 650s. They pair really nicely together. They might be a bit pricey though, unless you get one used.

 

[SP Wild]

 
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Lol. I feel exactly the same way, though I've never pictured myself as Goldilocks. I've tried so many headphones and the only two that seem halfway right are the HD595 and HD650, all the others being just too bright for me. It's interesting that my two favourite headphones are both from the same manufacturer (purely by chance; there's no brand loyalty); but if you check the frequency response of the two phones there's a remarkable similarity above 1khz, too much for it to be mere coincidence. Sennheiser's up-market products definitely have a brand sound, and while they can manipulate that sound to different effect and for different markets, it remains true to their in-house philosophy.
 

Fascinating this graph - owning both, I agree with it 90 percent.  What I find though is that even though the treble responses of both cans are similar - I find the HD650 sounds more extended, smoother with more "air" and accuracy.  This graph clearly illustrates the approx 1khz cup resonance I hear in the HD595.
 
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Whenever I spend a little time using only my ER-4S then move back to my HD-650s, I am reminded of why I dislike them: they lack detail, the soundstage is recessed, and the overriding characteristic of the sound is 'flabby bass'. Not great.

I can never understand the concept that HD650 has "flabby" bass and K701 is lower and tighter.  The HD650 may not be as tight as top tier turbo agility cans, but in fact the HD650 has a tighter bass than the K701.  The reason the K701 has an illusion of a tighter bass is because it has a mid-bass weakness in impact - making the sub-bass more noticeable (mid bass tightness being a really difficult challenge, the K701 simply does not engage in this challenge).  When you try to bring the mid-bass out of the K701 via EQ, you will find it is technically unable to play the game that the HD650 plays and plays well.
 
SS "recessed" when you are comparing to an IEM...Interesting.

 
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@ katalyst, I don't much care for the IEM/HD650 comparison either. Like David M implied, it's pretty much a DUH. Even with my triple-drive Shures, they have detail and the bass is pretty deep and tight when fed by my Headstage Arrow, but they lose big in the definition/separation department. Example: cymbals get absolutely smashed on the Shures where on the Senns, they're well defined.

You'd be surprised how good the Shure 3 driver IEMS are when you expand the IEM closed soundstaging via JR crossfeed.  The HD650 simply has better dynamics and drive and lower distortion - the shures are amazingly accurate and tight but treble is screwed.
 
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loving my HD650's paired up with the Woo Audio 3

 
They're really starting to open up now. I've only got about 45 or so hours on them, but so far, I'm pretty impressed with what these puppies got to offer. 

I did some quick side by side A/B testing of the HD650's to the Beyer DT990/600's, and now i feel the soundstage on both headphones differs in a unique kind of way.  The beyer's have marginally wider room to breathe / intake the instrumentals and directional flow of where the music is coming from and give it a more speaker style presentation -- the Senn's on the other hand are well coordinated, well orchestrated, give it a gentle push; with smooth dynamics and quite musical with lots of rhythm and groove to it.  Kinda hard to explain.. but Senn users know what I'm talking about

  They both are great in the soundstage areas[with the nudge to the beyers because of their wider angles and having loads of rumbling space to let wander off freely into the mystic clear blue sky] , the beyer 880 and 990's are really awesome for movies and games, but i could care less about them when it comes to music. I found them too shrill, artificially coloured(mostly the 990) with ear piercing highs.  The Senn's just do everything right for me, not to mention the butter soft mid-range which leaves any person with nice equipment slack jawed.  And best of all....... i can listen to these puppies for days and days without any fatiguing.  Which happens quite a bit from the beyers within the first hour. 
 
But the thing i love about Senn is that they don't clown around with high end audio. You get quality as it's intended to be heard. You're not playing just the music, the music is becoming one with you; and you don't even have to worry about anything else(meaning no equalizing, nothing out of balance, nothing too over-the-top... It's just about right from top to bottom) I truly respect companies like Sennheiser, they actually know what they're doing; instead of 'beyerdynamic' who just clowns around by raising unncessary treble, not caring about their customers and just shipping out their products blind folded. Seriously, what kind of company is 'beyerdynamic' ?  You got a be a huuuuuuuge treble head to enjoy the 990's. Seriously.... one wonders how this headphone even got its way to the shelves.  

Its a little unfair on beyerdynamic to make that statement - they are a studio can, monitoring purposes dictate that the treble needs to be tipped up to expose the noise floor and hone in on errors.
 
I do agree with you about that "something" with the 650.  It is not the most accurate can in the world and instruments are not as accurately re-created as top tier cans - however - I look at it like this (as someone who has played in huge concerts):
 
Music is an evolutionary part of humans - sounds that can alter our brain wave patterns.  To create said sounds need the use of manipulation of instruments.  Therefore instruments are a slave to the music and musicians intent - the music is not the slave to the instruments.  The instruments are merely a medium to transport data from one mans brain to another.  The HD650 can dig directly at the musical data - ie hearing the finger pluck a string is completely irrelevant to transporting what is in the composers mind to my mind - hearing the tone of that string in its musical intention in it's whole is the primary purpose - with this the HD650 misses nothing in details.

 
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Pairing my newly received HD650s with my Compass for now, as I have a Talisman inbound soon, and well, what can I say, that midrange, wow. Never thought I'd be one for the Senn sound, guess I was wrong!

Welcome aboard.

 

[Stoney]

I often wonder if "concensus" opinions about the HD650 were shaped back when the older version was shipping (the one with black silk instead of whitish-aluminum looking mesh in a large oval around the driver as seen from the outside through the grille).  The terms "veil" and "muddy bass" etc. do apply to the older version, compared to the newer version, which is rather good in terms of illusion of reality (though not highest of high end).  I've had both generations at the same time.  Senn says this change didn't affect the sound, but boy did it! 
 
I also wonder if the plot shown above from HeadRoom for the HD650 has been updated for the relatively recent version (2008ish).  Maybe Tyll knows....
 
I do admit that certain dearer phones do make the newer version also seems slow and veiled a bit. (I've removed the foam and upgraded the cable.) Some models have too much bright edge for me to tolerate, or I'd have upgraded by now (to the HD800 for example).  I'm considering the LCD2, more likely than the HE5LE or 6.  The plots of the HE5 show a much greater brightness than I think I can tolerate.
  

 

[maruzen]

signing up here 

 
very musical phones these are, and very amazing for vocals 

 

[midoo1990]

i love my hd650 very much and it is much better than my previous k701 or d5000.it is the only can that lasted me that long...but i think i will have to sell it and get hd800 or something in the same caliber.
hd650 is perfect for just enjoying the music and for relaxing but it is not neutral.
imaging is hazy and undefined,i want a very big soundstage which the 650s doesnt provide, thats why i am looking at hd800.
 
warmness and veil of the hd650 can get on my nerves sometimes because it doesnt work with many recordings.
it is not fast nor detailed or transparent.i dont find the bass flappy,infact out of my wa6 it is tight(not the last word in tightness) and deep.
 
i dont mean to bash the hd650,if anyone read my posts in this thread know how much i like it,but in the end,i am tired of their colouration and i am begining to appreciate neutral sound and with jh13 out of my touch,hd650 doesnt have a chance to compete out of my wa6 in nearly every department except of course soundstage.
 
thats why i want hd800,because people describe it as very transparent,dead neutral and without a soul.which is what i want to complement jh13 along with the huge soundstage of hd800 which i will love.the only thing i am afraid of is the treble,i am afraid that hd800 treble will be like k701 which was intolerable.

 

[156219]

 
All i have to say about the HD650s is that They captivate the listener with their expressiveness and emotion while maintaining absolute precision and lifelike reproduction. Enjoy sound in perfection Enjoy music the it was supposed to be heard!

 

[Sebhelyesfarku]

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All i have to say about the HD650s is that They captivate the listener with their expressiveness and emotion while maintaining absolute precision and lifelike reproduction. Enjoy sound in perfection Enjoy music the it was supposed to be heard!

You should write ad copies for Sennheiser, you're talented.

 

[SP Wild]

 
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thats why i want hd800,because people describe it as very transparent,dead neutral and without a soul.which is what i want to complement jh13 along with the huge soundstage of hd800 which i will love.the only thing i am afraid of is the treble,i am afraid that hd800 treble will be like k701 which was intolerable.

Both driven by the same amp, the HD800 has more treble than K701 - I found how much the K701 has more treble than HD650 is how much the HD800 has over K701 yet again.  Can I suggest looking at the T-1 which is known to be not quite as treble aggresive as the HD800.

 

[midoo1990]

^^ouch,i just dismissed the hd800 from my purchase list.no way i can tolerate more treble than 701,701 is already metallic harsh and piercing.its decided then,i will get the lcd2 and keep my beloved hd650(i freaking love them).i was just going to sell the hd650 for hd800 but i can afford the lcd2 without selling anything.besides reviews for lcd2 are all positive just like jh13 which describes it as terrific headphone in my books.

 

[MacedonianHero]

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^^ouch,i just dismissed the hd800 from my purchase list.no way i can tolerate more treble than 701,701 is already metallic harsh and piercing.its decided then,i will get the lcd2 and keep my beloved hd650(i freaking live them).i was just going to sell the hd650 for hd800 but i can afford the lcd2 without selling anything.besides reviews for lcd2 are all positive just like jh13 which describes it as terrific headphone.

The treble on the HD800 is in no way more strident than the K701s. I used to make a certain painful face with the K701s on some treble happy recordings, but do not in any way with the HD800s.

 

[SP Wild]

 
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The treble on the HD800 is in no way more strident than the K701s. I used to make a certain painful face with the K701s on some treble happy recordings, but do not in any way with the HD800s.

I have to challenge you on that one.  When I auditioned the HD800, I had the K701 as a direct point of reference, where I'd AB between the two.  You may be relying on memory - the HD800 had a better bass extension and presence than K701 - which for you may have countered the extended treble presence of the HD800 over the K701. 
 
For my preferences, after auditioning the the HD800 - switching over to the K701 gave me a huge relief from the treble stridency I experienced with the HD800.  This is in stark contrast with my reference rig where the HD650 serves as relief to the discomfort of extended listening to K701 - in terms of treble presence.
 
I am simply being as helpful to Midoo as much as possible - can you personally recommend the HD800 over the T1 for Midoo - as you own both?

 

[midoo1990]

sorry for begining this debat

 .i didnt mean to.i already dismissed the hd800 due to the reviews of their hot treble and i wasnt even interested on the T1 even if it was better.i already placed my order for the LCD2. i love the tonality of hd650,and from what i read,lcd2 tonality is not night and day so i think i will love it.
 
thanks for the help guys.