[MattTCG]

^^ I would call the hd650 a lot of things including my favorite hp, but entry level is one thing that I wouldn't call it. 

 

[bracko]

^^ I would call the hd650 a lot of things including my favorite hp, but entry level is one thing that I wouldn't call it. 

Agreed!

 

[Aerocraft67]

Quote:

^^ I would call the hd650 a lot of things including my favorite hp, but entry level is one thing that I wouldn't call it. 

 
Well, I did call it entry-level "audiophile" headphone, which is hardly a slap in the face, and I'm not the first one to bestow it that moniker, nor am I the most authoritative to do so. And there are certainly superior headphones available, including at least one set from Sennheiser.

 

[MattTCG]

You seem to make my point for me. 

 

[Aerocraft67]

Quote:

You seem to make my point for me. 

 
I might agree with you if it was clear what your point was. I called the HD-650 "entry level," you said you wouldn't do that, I explained my reasoning why it makes sense to call it entry level, then you say I've made your point. That just sounds like a complete contradiction from you, so your point is completely unclear to me. 
 
Speaking of what's the point, is the HD-650 categorization really the most provocative element of my post? Geez, you guys are sensitive. 

 

[disastermouse]

It's an entry point for what I would call an "Ah-hah" audiophile experience. That's not quite the same thing as calling it an entry-level headphone.

 

[bracko]

It's an entry point for what I would call an "Ah-hah" audiophile experience. That's not quite the same thing as calling it an entry-level headphone.

The entry point you are referring to is placed in a much lower price range. "Ah-hah" is there even with hd595 or dt660 or even ath-m50 to name a few. All these are sub-200 headphones

 

[Aerocraft67]

Quote:

It's an entry point for what I would call an "Ah-hah" audiophile experience. That's not quite the same thing as calling it an entry-level headphone.

 
Your first sentence, which I think everyone would agree with, pretty much defines "entry level audiophile headphone," doesn't it? No one is calling it an entry level headphone outright. Although, that's actually a tough answer to pin down its own right. Ironically, "entry level audiophile" might be easier to present a clear example of than just "entry level," since that could mean a lot of things. But no one is putting HD-650 in that category, which is why I'm genuinely puzzled by this line of discussion. 

 

[Aerocraft67]

Quote:

The entry point you are referring to is placed in a much lower price range. "Ah-hah" is there even with hd595 or dt660 or even ath-m50 to name a few. All these are sub-200 headphones

 
Now that you mention it, I had my "ah-ha" with HD-239, sort of, then quickly yet carefully procured my HD-650 as my entree to "serious" headphone listening. 

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

So what's up with the recent reviews of the HD-650? There's a piece over on Headfonia today that'll give you bottleheads something to chatter about—or not, may already be conventional wisdom. Also, Innerfidelity had a big piece the other day, too. I wonder if there'll be a run on WA3s as a result of the Innerfidelity piece. Maybe not, since Lyr looks more attractively priced for roughly the same capability (deserving of another whole thread that probably already exists, I know). 
 
Sounds like HD-650 is settling in as the ultimate entry-level audiophile headphone, if not the perfect headphone, all due respect to the DT-880, HE-400/500, etc. Time with mine remains early in the grand scheme of things, but I'm already sniffing around for something that might handle classical better, or something that provides a sonic complement to the HD-650s fabulous warmth (or whatever you want to call it).
 
As for the reviews, the cynical view may be that they're generating page views by reviewing already wildly popular headphones. More reasonably, I guess they're just covering what the market is doing, apparently buying lots of HD-650s.

 
Can't speak for the others, but I reviewed them mainly because I think InnerFidelity content is incomplete without a review of them.
 
Then secondly because I think I've seen a resurgence of interest in them, so I felt I should offer a review.
 
And sure, the review should do well on pageviews...because it's a topic of interest. Satisfying interest is part of my job. 
 
I'd say a good complement can would be the DT880-600 or the K701, but it would be hard to recommend one over the other, both have their merits.

 

[disastermouse]

The very first time I came to head-fi was around 2002. With a very limited budget (I don't even know if I had a username then) I got enough info to get a cheap cmoy amp and first a Sennheiser PX-200 and then HD497s.

With a much better budget, I came to head-fi in 2010 looking for something new and worked my way up from the Grado SR60i to the E7/E9 amp a used pair of HD650s. It was the HD650 that finally made me realize what all the fuss was about. You may be able to get an "Ah-hah!" moment from something cheaper, but that was the first moment where I realized that music had more subtle joys to offer than the broad outlines I'd been hearing all my life.

 

[Aerocraft67]

Tyll, thanks a million for the response and recommendation. Given that your "Wall of Fame" had a big influence on my headphone selections, it was indeed conspicuous not to find corresponding reviews of all of them. I indeed have my eye on DT-880 and K701, as well as AD900 (900x?), as complementary companions to the HD-650, in roughly the same class (not making an unequivocal proclamation there, HD-650 fans!). 
 
Didn't mean to cast aspersions with the reference to page views. The comment, while thankfully restrained in hindsight, was a little out of character, as I find myself defending professional reviews more than criticizing them around here.

 

[Pianist]

I am really not sure about HD650 being an "entry level audiophile" headphone. I think there are lower, even much lower priced headphones that are audiophile worthy. I think the popular AKG K/Q/70* and DT880/990 also have enough audiophile qualities - that's why they are popular among headphone enthusiasts. Even a Grado SR60 could be called an entry level audiophile headphone. It has a number of qualities that make it great for the price, like flat mids and good resolution and it sure isn't popular among the general population - only among those who genuinely care about good sound.
 
Then, we also need to make a distinction between full-sized headphones and headphones of other types, because in-ear monitors, for example, are currently totally different beasts from full-sized cans and offer much more bang for the back IMO, compared to similarly performing big cans. Phonak Audeo PFE112 or an Etymotic HF5 are undoubtedly audiophile level headphones in my view and are comparable in sound quality to some much more expensive full-sized cans. For instance, I find Phonak PFE perfectly comparable to a DT880 in sound quality, while Etymotics play at an even higher level, closer to that of HD650. And then there is the Etymotic ER4S, which I consider to be comparable to the very best headphones out there, regardless of type. It handily outperforms my HD650 in precision and accuracy and kisses the heels of my HE-500 at a fraction of the cost of the big cans.

 

[Aerocraft67]

Pianist raises some good points about different applications and designs, and makes a compelling argument that HD-650 is perhaps more "mid-audiophile" rather than "entry-level audiophile." I'm sure you won't get much argument from DT-880 and K70X owners to define the audiophile bar at their level, nor argument from HD-650 owners that their set of cans is a superior performer, but the tricky part is establishing that the HD-650 is a sufficiently universal superior performer to the others to distinguish it a sub-class higher, pricing aside. I think you could reasonably make either argument, but I lean toward lumping them in the same class, even though I discerned, like most of us on this thread, that the 650 is the class leader.

 

[CoolBurn]

Just one question:
 
Are we trying and determine what's the first (as far as the price is concerned) "good enough" headphone to be worthy of being called "audiophile-grade" in these last messages ?
 
I'm a little "worried" about that ...  Couldn't we just admit that the HD650/HD600 are the most popular in this price range but not necessarily the recommended ones for everyone's taste ?
 
Let's just hope that we won't go into a sterile debate over which one's better, I think this has been discussed enough (without any success in my opinion).