[heliosphann]

I found all pads that are thicker than stock to have snappier transients. I think it’s due to the resonance because of the extra distance between your ear and the driver.

Philips L2 pads are actually the best I’ve tried, they retain the soft transients of the stock pads because depth is the same, but they have slightly bigger bass and smoother uppermids and treble vs stock due to them being leather.

Driver to ear distance is certainly a factor, but it's just one among many. For example on the Verite Open, the transients with the Verite pads (which are the thinnest) are much faster than any other ZMF pads.

 

[Philimon]

Here is pic of driver baffle sealed up. Does anyone understand why Sennheiser uses a porous baffle?

And Im playing with different rear driver damping. Here is the felt I took measurements of earlier. I do know that I want to increase acoustic impedance in order to reduce bass wooliness as I find it a little fatiguing stock. I guess I could combine with KISS mass cup resonance damping. Or maybe alt pads.

 

[Philimon]

Driver to ear distance is certainly a factor, but it's just one among many. For example on the Verite Open, the transients with the Verite pads (which are the thinnest) are much faster than any other ZMF pads.

Let’s discuss all the different variables please? You start.

 

[heliosphann]

Let’s discuss all the different variables please? You start.

External pad material, internal pad material, pad depth, pad shape and pad opening size. Also unit-to-unit variance, although I don't think HD650's have many issues with that. Then if you're comparing to other headphones, you have all the aspects of the driver, housing, baffling, dampening, etc... Finally there's each individual's ear characteristics. This is also assuming all comparisons were made using the same gear chain.

 

[heliosphann]

Last thing I say before I do my write up.

The ZMF suede and lambskin perf pads really tighten up the bass on the 650's. Far less bloom, albeit slightly lower overall quantity.

 

[dakanao]

Sorry for silly question but what would snappy transient mean?

In my experience, it would be a sharper, rougher edge to the impact of notes, most noticable with synthetic snare drums.

 

[dakanao]

Driver to ear distance is certainly a factor, but it's just one among many. For example on the Verite Open, the transients with the Verite pads (which are the thinnest) are much faster than any other ZMF pads.

Fast transients and snappy transients are different in my experience. Fast transients tend to be more emphasized with thinner earpads, due to sound of the driver needing less time to arrive to your ears, making everything sound more dynamic and quicker; you could say it’s a natural kind of snappy. It sounds smooth, quicker and natural.

I’ve found that, atleast with dynamic drivers, that no matter what the material is, if the 2 earpads are as thin as each other, they’ll have the same smooth transient response. The only differences are in texture of the treble (more sizzly with velour pads and smoother with leather) and fr response changes (more lower-mids and bass, less uppermids and treble with leather/pleather/sheepskin)

Snappy transients due to thicker pads, actually slow down the transient response, making sounds in especially the upper mid region more rough in impact. Some people perceive this as a faster transient response, but it’s just more resonance. Same with people perceiving a bright treble response as more detailed vs actual details.

 

[dakanao]

A back-talking hobo. Obviously.

If you can’t hear differences between earpads and you don’t know what sound differences are, please keep that to yourself.

 

[Philimon]

External pad material, internal pad material, pad depth, pad shape and pad opening size. Also unit-to-unit variance, although I don't think HD650's have many issues with that. Then if you're comparing to other headphones, you have all the aspects of the driver, housing, baffling, dampening, etc... Finally there's each individual's ear characteristics. This is also assuming all comparisons were made using the same gear chain.

Thanks for answering my question seriously. I didnt expect considering my question was out of the blue.

You explained the physical differences that cause the audible differences. The audible differences is a complex equation … @dakanao mentioned a few.

@heliosphann are the zmf pads ones you bought or part of a loaner tour? I saw on sbaf that ZMF is currently doing a 6X0 pad tour there. I would like on that tour but am currently on reprieve from there.

 

[heliosphann]

Fast transients and snappy transients are different in my experience. Fast transients tend to be more emphasized with thinner earpads, due to sound of the driver needing less time to arrive to your ears, making everything sound more dynamic and quicker; you could say it’s a natural kind of snappy. It sounds smooth, quicker and natural.

I’ve found that, atleast with dynamic drivers, that no matter what the material is, if the 2 earpads are as thin as each other, they’ll have the same smooth transient response. The only differences are in texture of the treble (more sizzly with velour pads and smoother with leather) and fr response changes (more lower-mids and bass, less uppermids and treble with leather/pleather/sheepskin)

Snappy transients due to thicker pads, actually slow down the transient response, making sounds in especially the upper mid region more rough in impact. Some people perceive this as a faster transient response, but it’s just more resonance. Same with people perceiving a bright treble response as more detailed vs actual details.

I understand what you're getting at. I'll try and be more concice with my nomenclature.

 

[heliosphann]

Thanks for answering my question seriously. I didnt expect considering my question was out of the blue.

You explained the physical differences that cause the audible differences. The audible differences is a complex equation … @dakanao mentioned a few.

@heliosphann are the zmf pads ones you bought or part of a loaner tour? I saw on sbaf that ZMF is currently doing a 6X0 pad tour there. I would like on that tour but am currently on reprieve from there.

You're welcome.

The pads are not part of a loaner tour.

 

[Thaddy]

Fast transients and snappy transients are different in my experience. Fast transients tend to be more emphasized with thinner earpads, due to sound of the driver needing less time to arrive to your ears, making everything sound more dynamic and quicker; you could say it’s a natural kind of snappy. It sounds smooth, quicker and natural.

I’ve found that, atleast with dynamic drivers, that no matter what the material is, if the 2 earpads are as thin as each other, they’ll have the same smooth transient response. The only differences are in texture of the treble (more sizzly with velour pads and smoother with leather) and fr response changes (more lower-mids and bass, less uppermids and treble with leather/pleather/sheepskin)

Snappy transients due to thicker pads, actually slow down the transient response, making sounds in especially the upper mid region more rough in impact. Some people perceive this as a faster transient response, but it’s just more resonance. Same with people perceiving a bright treble response as more detailed vs actual details.

So you're able to distinguish between the differences in time it take for the sound waves to reach your ears? Is that what you're trying to say?

 

[eswng679]

New pads came in for my HD650s today. Its the first time I've changed them since I first got them in 2015.
Wow, what a difference! The treble is brought forward and less bloomy bass. Almost like a different pair of headphones.

I suppose I'll need to budget for an annual pad tax from now on.

@heliosphann - it might still be early but do you think the ZMF pads will last more than a year? $90 would be quite the tax on a yearly basis.

 

[heliosphann]

New pads came in for my HD650s today. Its the first time I've changed them since I first got them in 2015.
Wow, what a difference! The treble is brought forward and less bloomy bass. Almost like a different pair of headphones.

I suppose I'll need to budget for an annual pad tax from now on.

@heliosphann - it might still be early but do you think the ZMF pads will last more than a year? $90 would be quite the tax on a yearly basis.

Fresh Senn pads will definitely make a big difference.

As far as the ZMF pads, most definitely they will last more than a year. Besides being much thicker than the stock pads, they use high quality foam and covering materials.

 

[dakanao]

So you're able to distinguish between the differences in time it take for the sound waves to reach your ears? Is that what you're trying to say?

Not the time difference, but the audible diference. I mean it’s common knowledge that if you have a seal, and more distance from ear to driver will be more resonant.

If your music doesn’t have a lot of uppermid synthethic snares going on, the difference maybe inaudible for you.

I mean, why do you think people find the stock pads smoother in the treble when they’re worn in, vs new?