[NorCal]

I believe long burn in time makes a major improvement to the HD650.

I never was super impressed with my HD650s, and probably had only 15 hour on them in the last couple of years, (mostly listened to speakers). Since they're my only HPs, that also means the circuitry in my NAD integrated amp's HP jack, also only had about 15 hours burn time, so it is possible the improvement was actually due to the NAD's HP circuitry.

Anyway, I ordered a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC and Mjolnir 2 amp. I read reviews saying Schiit multibit DACs need 300+ hours of burn in, and that their amps need about half that. Since the amp was back ordered, I decided to burn in the Yggy with my current equipment. The sound of the HD650s, (or the HP jack circuitry, or both), definitely improved, (by time I had ~350 hours on them) ... very noticeable to me anyway.

For my hearing or equipment, the return on investment, (ROI), wasn't there, (A/B comparing my CD player's DAC to the Yggy, via coaxial), so I returned the Yggy and cancelled the Mjolnir 2.

A few days ago, I ordered a Schiit Magni 3 for the HD650s. Should be here tomorrow, so will be able to start a 150 hour burn in on it. Power consumption is only 6W, so this will be a good summertime amp, (since it will be close to my head, on the nightstand). I'll have to decide on a wintertime amp next fall, maybe the Valhalla 2, or the latest Schiit.

In conclusion, IMO, one should burn in the HD650's, and probably any other HPs and equipment 24/7 ... for a couple of weeks, before you review them, return them, sell them, or do anything rash.

 

[castleofargh]

I believe long burn in time makes a major improvement to the HD650.

I never was super impressed with my HD650s, and probably had only 15 hour on them in the last couple of years, (mostly listened to speakers). Since they're my only HPs, that also means the circuitry in my NAD integrated amp's HP jack, also only had about 15 hours burn time, so it is possible the improvement was actually due to the NAD's HP circuitry.

Anyway, I ordered a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC and Mjolnir 2 amp. I read reviews saying Schiit multibit DACs need 300+ hours of burn in, and that their amps need about half that. Since the amp was back ordered, I decided to burn in the Yggy with my current equipment. The sound of the HD650s, (or the HP jack circuitry, or both), definitely improved, (by time I had ~350 hours on them) ... very noticeable to me anyway.

For my hearing or equipment, the return on investment, (ROI), wasn't there, (A/B comparing my CD player's DAC to the Yggy, via coaxial), so I returned the Yggy and cancelled the Mjolnir 2.

A few days ago, I ordered a Schiit Magni 3 for the HD650s. Should be here tomorrow, so will be able to start a 150 hour burn in on it. Power consumption is only 6W, so this will be a good summertime amp, (since it will be close to my head, on the nightstand). I'll have to decide on a wintertime amp next fall, maybe the Valhalla 2, or the latest Schiit.

In conclusion, IMO, one should burn in the HD650's, and probably any other HPs and equipment 24/7 ... for a couple of weeks, before you review them, return them, sell them, or do anything rash.

please give it up for logical fallacies!
can I play too? I think you're wrong and what made the headphone improve was using it only 15 hours over a couple of years.

In conclusion, IMO, one should do that with his hd650, and probably any other HPs and equipment 15 hours... just over a couple of years, before you review them, return them, sell them, or become guilty of assault and battery on logic.

 

[SilverEars]

please give it up for logical fallacies!
can I play too? I think you're wrong and what made the headphone improve was using it only 15 hours over a couple of years.

In conclusion, IMO, one should do that with his hd650, and probably any other HPs and equipment 15 hours... just over a couple of years, before you review them, return them, sell them, or become guilty of assault and battery on logic.

I don't know about the dynamic drivers, but lately it seemed quite convincing that a brand new planar magnetic driver has gone through some sort of initial break-in. In the past, I believe I have experienced similar, but wasn't so mind-full about it. It seems plausible that something like planar-magnetic driver can go through changes from brand new.

As for HD650, my experiences were likely of just getting used to the lower to mid treble roll-off as other headphones before it were the opposite in response.

 

[NorCal]

please give it up for logical fallacies!
can I play too? I think you're wrong and what made the headphone improve was using it only 15 hours over a couple of years.

In conclusion, IMO, one should do that with his hd650, and probably any other HPs and equipment 15 hours... just over a couple of years, before you review them, return them, sell them, or become guilty of assault and battery on logic.

I disagree.

 

[NorCal]

I don't know about the dynamic drivers, but lately it seemed quite convincing that a brand new planar magnetic driver has gone through some sort of initial break-in. In the past, I believe I have experienced similar, but wasn't so mind-full about it. It seems plausible that something like planar-magnetic driver can go through changes from brand new.

As for HD650, my experiences were likely of just getting used to the lower to mid treble roll-off as other headphones before it were the opposite in response.

I think with headphones and loudspeakers, the surround gets broken in with burn in/extended use.

 

[castleofargh]

I don't know about the dynamic drivers, but lately it seemed quite convincing that a brand new planar magnetic driver has gone through some sort of initial break-in. In the past, I believe I have experienced similar, but wasn't so mind-full about it. It seems plausible that something like planar-magnetic driver can go through some changes from brand new.

As for HD650, my experiences were likely more of getting used to the lower to mid treble roll-off as other headphones before it were the opposite in the region.

oh I'm not debating burn in, only the impressive amount of shortcuts in diagnostic and drawing conclusions of his post. even if I was 100% in agreement with the conclusion(I'm not), the post would make my eyes bleed just the same.

about burn in, I'm ok to discuss one specific device at a time, and only if the claim is founded on more than:

 

[DaaDaa]

oh I'm not debating burn in, only the impressive amount of shortcuts in diagnostic and drawing conclusions of his post. even if I was 100% in agreement with the conclusion(I'm not), the post would make my eyes bleed just the same.

about burn in, I'm ok to discuss one specific device at a time, and only if the claim is founded on more than:

you are the one who doesnt make sense. his post is well worded, makes perfect sense. dont be an idiot and make an effort to get a life.

 

[NorCal]

oh I'm not debating burn in, only the impressive amount of shortcuts in diagnostic and drawing conclusions of his post. even if I was 100% in agreement with the conclusion(I'm not), the post would make my eyes bleed just the same.

about burn in, I'm ok to discuss one specific device at a time, and only if the claim is founded on more than:

Seems like you might not have noticed ... this is an impressions thread. Its title is:
"Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread".

Those were my observations. If you don't agree with them, you are wrong, because that was my experience, or at least my impression.

 

[DavidA]

Seems like you might not have noticed ... this is an impressions thread. Its title is:
"Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread".

Those were my observations. If you don't agree with them, you are wrong, because that was my experience, or at least my impression.

I think @castleofargh should have re-worded his first post but I got the basis of what he is saying. I also find your conclusions of your observation / impression / experience a bit out of sorts since you have so many variables (headphone, amp, hearing, etc) that one could come to almost any conclusion and it would make sense, IMO.

As for "burn-in" I'm in the "it depends" camp since I've never heard SS amps (cables???) change in sound over time but have heard one headphone change quite noticeably from 0-hrs to 250-hrs (my GF also noticed the changes over time without me saying anything). With the one exception I'd never noticed any other headphone to change that it was so noticeable so I don't fully rule out "burn-in" but am leery of "burn-in" claims as a whole.

With the HD650 I was able to hear one that was new and one that had over 500 hours on it and they both sounded the same (even swapped ear pads to rule them out) but I do hear a difference between my HD650 and HD6XX, its not a very noticeable thing many but I can easily pick which is which in a blind test.

 

[SilverEars]

Jude's graph shows slight differences. slightly more treble energy on the HD650. Just before 10k a bit more and in the upper mids, just a tad more.

 

[DaaDaa]

I think @castleofargh should have re-worded his first post but I got the basis of what he is saying. I also find your conclusions of your observation / impression / experience a bit out of sorts since you have so many variables (headphone, amp, hearing, etc) that one could come to almost any conclusion and it would make sense, IMO.

As for "burn-in" I'm in the "it depends" camp since I've never heard SS amps (cables???) change in sound over time but have heard one headphone change quite noticeably from 0-hrs to 250-hrs (my GF also noticed the changes over time without me saying anything). With the one exception I'd never noticed any other headphone to change that it was so noticeable so I don't fully rule out "burn-in" but am leery of "burn-in" claims as a whole.

With the HD650 I was able to hear one that was new and one that had over 500 hours on it and they both sounded the same (even swapped ear pads to rule them out) but I do hear a difference between my HD650 and HD6XX, its not a very noticeable thing many but I can easily pick which is which in a blind test.

your experience and your GF is so much fallacy,give it up for fallacy. your logic is fallacious. your claims draw so much conclusions that i cant even. give it up. i hope you got the basis of what im saying.

 

[NorCal]

I believe long burn in time makes a major improvement to the HD650.

I never was super impressed with my HD650s, and probably had only 15 hour on them in the last couple of years, (mostly listened to speakers). Since they're my only HPs, that also means the circuitry in my NAD integrated amp's HP jack, also only had about 15 hours burn time, so it is possible the improvement was actually due to the NAD's HP circuitry.

Anyway, I ordered a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC and Mjolnir 2 amp. I read reviews saying Schiit multibit DACs need 300+ hours of burn in, and that their amps need about half that. Since the amp was back ordered, I decided to burn in the Yggy with my current equipment. The sound of the HD650s, (or the HP jack circuitry, or both), definitely improved, (by time I had ~350 hours on them) ... very noticeable to me anyway.

For my hearing or equipment, the return on investment, (ROI), wasn't there, (A/B comparing my CD player's DAC to the Yggy, via coaxial), so I returned the Yggy and cancelled the Mjolnir 2.

A few days ago, I ordered a Schiit Magni 3 for the HD650s. Should be here tomorrow, so will be able to start a 150 hour burn in on it. Power consumption is only 6W, so this will be a good summertime amp, (since it will be close to my head, on the nightstand). I'll have to decide on a wintertime amp next fall, maybe the Valhalla 2, or the latest Schiit.

In conclusion, IMO, one should burn in the HD650's, and probably any other HPs and equipment 24/7 ... for a couple of weeks, before you review them, return them, sell them, or do anything rash.

Yep, these are my impression of my HD650s after burn in of ~350 hours.
If you can prove that they are invalid, please prove it to me. I quoted my post so you can do a line by line critique ... I'll start:

I believe long burn in time makes a major improvement to the HD650.
= Yes I believe this.

I never was super impressed with my HD650s, and probably had only 15 hour on them in the last couple of years, (mostly listened to speakers). Since they're my only HPs, that also means the circuitry in my NAD integrated amp's HP jack, also only had about 15 hours burn time, so it is possible the improvement was actually due to the NAD's HP circuitry.
= Yes, I acknowledge that my impression of improvement, could be due to the HP amp section's burn in, not necessarily from the HD650's burn in.

Anyway, I ordered a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC and Mjolnir 2 amp. I read reviews saying Schiit multibit DACs need 300+ hours of burn in, and that their amps need about half that. Since the amp was back ordered, I decided to burn in the Yggy with my current equipment. The sound of the HD650s, (or the HP jack circuitry, or both), definitely improved, (by time I had ~350 hours on them) ... very noticeable to me anyway.
= Yes, my impression is that the HD650 or the HP jack circuitry, or both, definitely improved after running music through them for ~350 hours, "very noticeable to me anyway".

For my hearing or equipment, the return on investment, (ROI), wasn't there, (A/B comparing my CD player's DAC to the Yggy, via coaxial), so I returned the Yggy and cancelled the Mjolnir 2.
= Yes, that's what I did.

A few days ago, I ordered a Schiit Magni 3 for the HD650s. Should be here tomorrow, so will be able to start a 150 hour burn in on it. Power consumption is only 6W, so this will be a good summertime amp, (since it will be close to my head, on the nightstand). I'll have to decide on a wintertime amp next fall, maybe the Valhalla 2, or the latest Schiit.

= Yes, I ordered a Magni 3. Apparently someone from Schiit told a reviewer that that the Multibit DAC need 300 + hours of burn in and their amps need about half of that. Since I have more faith in Mike and Jason, than the typical high count poster, I will burn in my new amp for 150 hours.

OK, prove any of my above statements to be false. [Must be scientific though ... LOL].

 

[castleofargh]

it's not about belief, again it's about logic.

I believe long burn in time makes a major improvement to the HD650.

I never was super impressed with my HD650s, and probably had only 15 hour on them in the last couple of years, (mostly listened to speakers). Since they're my only HPs, that also means the circuitry in my NAD integrated amp's HP jack, also only had about 15 hours burn time, so it is possible the improvement was actually due to the NAD's HP circuitry.

Anyway, I ordered a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC and Mjolnir 2 amp. I read reviews saying Schiit multibit DACs need 300+ hours of burn in, and that their amps need about half that. Since the amp was back ordered, I decided to burn in the Yggy with my current equipment. The sound of the HD650s, (or the HP jack circuitry, or both), definitely improved, (by time I had ~350 hours on them) ... very noticeable to me anyway.

For my hearing or equipment, the return on investment, (ROI), wasn't there, (A/B comparing my CD player's DAC to the Yggy, via coaxial), so I returned the Yggy and cancelled the Mjolnir 2.

A few days ago, I ordered a Schiit Magni 3 for the HD650s. Should be here tomorrow, so will be able to start a 150 hour burn in on it. Power consumption is only 6W, so this will be a good summertime amp, (since it will be close to my head, on the nightstand). I'll have to decide on a wintertime amp next fall, maybe the Valhalla 2, or the latest Schiit.

In conclusion, IMO, one should burn in the HD650's, and probably any other HPs and equipment 24/7 ... for a couple of weeks, before you review them, return them, sell them, or do anything rash.

first sentence you believe something. the next you give a reason to doubt the first sentence by explaining that your belief comes from an anecdote where you in fact have no clue if a change came from the headphone, the amp, or both. and that's your own highly optimistic assessment of the situation. of course there are many more reasons to question your experience, listening conditions, your memory of the "before", your belief that the hd650 sounds better after "burn in"... I said logical fallacy because you discredit your belief on your own yet don't seem to mind. it's not a matter of opinion or fact, the reasoning is wrong.

then just the general idea of experiencing one thing, believing in a cherry picked version of what might have happened out of all the possible ones, then advising people on what they should do based on it... that's not my idea of a logical thought process either.

and of course how some belief about the hd650 or your amp, or both, leads to you telling people to burn in everything(why stop at the hd650), for hundreds of hours before having an opinion on the sound. where the hell is this coming from?
the typical one off anecdote turned into claim about an entire series of headphone wasn't enough, you go and advise about all gears. how generous of you.
I'm not even against the idea of waiting before passing a judgement on gears, but my reason for it is human. like getting used to placing the headphone on our head, having the pads give in a little and conform to our head, and getting beyond the "new toy effect". you know, all the things that most people will mistake for burn in because they started thinking about burn in and never bothered looking elsewhere.

 

[NorCal]

it's not about belief, again it's about logic.


first sentence you believe something. the next you give a reason to doubt the first sentence by explaining that your belief comes from an anecdote where you in fact have no clue if a change came from the headphone, the amp, or both. and that's your own highly optimistic assessment of the situation. of course there are many more reasons to question your experience, listening conditions, your memory of the "before", your belief that the hd650 sounds better after "burn in"... I said logical fallacy because you discredit your belief on your own yet don't seem to mind. it's not a matter of opinion or fact, the reasoning is wrong.

then just the general idea of experiencing one thing, believing in a cherry picked version of what might have happened out of all the possible ones, then advising people on what they should do based on it... that's not my idea of a logical thought process either.

and of course how some belief about the hd650 or your amp, or both, leads to you telling people to burn in everything(why stop at the hd650), for hundreds of hours before having an opinion on the sound. where the hell is this coming from?
the typical one off anecdote turned into claim about an entire series of headphone wasn't enough, you go and advise about all gears. how generous of you.
I'm not even against the idea of waiting before passing a judgement on gears, but my reason for it is human. like getting used to placing the headphone on our head, having the pads give in a little and conform to our head, and getting beyond the "new toy effect". you know, all the things that most people will mistake for burn in because they started thinking about burn in and never bothered looking elsewhere.

Wrong again. This is about belief. That is all it can be, without everyone having their own set of test equipment, and the knowledge to use it.

Once again read the title of the thread: "Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread".

 

[gefski]

Finally, a big food fight on this thread that's NOT about the V-Word!!