Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread
Oct 8, 2016 at 2:01 AM Post #35,671 of 46,521
my hd650 sounded smoother on the 401th hour.. 
ok..its somewhere in that continuworm...
but, u will know when it gets there. :p
 
Oct 8, 2016 at 5:11 AM Post #35,672 of 46,521
  You should realize that we change much MUCH more than the headphone. The burn-in non-sense is going far of the charts.
I've even heard that you should use 24/192 audio for proper burn in...
 
Our brain is really complex, we get used to things and in the same way we really enjoy chocolate at certain moment, but prefer potato fries a few hours later, same happens with our perception of sound. On top of that, there's a huge variance among recordings and you'll always find plenty of recordings that are a bad match for your headphone/setup.
 
There's some tiny, hardly mesurable variance between fresh out of the box headphone and a 2000-hour used headphone.
The new one sounds right for sure and if the used one sounds different, best chances are it's time to get new pads.
 
It's advisable to pick the headphone, find those recordings that sound good to you and enjoy music. That's the purpose of the product, not being part of 'burn-in' rituals.
 
Feel free to share a link to a recording that you think sounds harsh and unenjoyable through HD650, we can try it with our HD650 and share a comment. Maybe it's the recording's fault.

 
This ^
 
There's simply no point in complaining about a headphone being harsh or thick sounding when listening to music without telling people what that music is. While music quality is largely subjective music production & recording is not. I have lots of music that's really good but the recordings themselves are truly awful. Think Asia, Heart, Journey, almost anything from that period & genre to be honest (except Toto, obviously).
 
Oct 8, 2016 at 7:52 AM Post #35,673 of 46,521
   
Believe you me, I am as skeptical of the claims of burn in as you. However, what you wrote above comes across as awful arrogant and unhelpful. Claiming that anything that cannot be explained fully via science, right now, is "superstition" seems to be an equally superstitions notion, blindly trusting in your faith in empiricism - which is far from the only valid form of philosophy. 
 
Yes, many people on headfi "hear things" because they want to. However, lots of people also hear things because their brain-ear system is giving them solid anecdotal evidence that what they hear it actually a fact of reality. Just because you are uncomfortable with a method of evidence gathering does not dismiss that evidence because you claim it is superstitious.
 
Sorry for the off-topic response folks. I tire of the "where is the evidence" argument that is so flawed and limited in its scope, seeking to define acceptable evidence as they demand more evidence.

 
Exactly.
 
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There's a lot of willful ignorance, hand-waving, and misinformation, on HF.
 
Truth is, peoples' brains adjust at different rates to the sound of a new HP. That's scientific evidence -- get an fMRI scanner and view the images of the cortex of people as they listen to the same track with a HP. Musicians vs. non-musicians, etc. Completely unique brain activity signatures for each person, and the rate at which each signature stabilizes over time is different. HP properties are irrelevant -- the end-point, quality-limiting organ of music perception is the brain. Not the HP. (Which is why I refuse to spend $3K or whatever on a fricking headphone....much better spent on an amp for my floor system imo).
 
Too busy enjoying the musik here to even think about "burn-in" or whatever  -- it's Thanksgiving Day weekend here, and I've found some fat turkeys....
 
Oct 8, 2016 at 7:52 AM Post #35,674 of 46,521
   
This ^
 
There's simply no point in complaining about a headphone being harsh or thick sounding when listening to music without telling people what that music is. While music quality is largely subjective music production & recording is not. I have lots of music that's really good but the recordings themselves are truly awful. Think Asia, Heart, Journey, almost anything from that period & genre to be honest (except Toto, obviously).


Cowboy Junkies
biggrin.gif

 
Oct 8, 2016 at 8:00 AM Post #35,675 of 46,521
  Believe you me, I am as skeptical of the claims of burn in as you. However, what you wrote above comes across as awful arrogant and unhelpful. Claiming that anything that cannot be explained fully via science, right now, is "superstition" seems to be an equally superstitions notion, blindly trusting in your faith in empiricism - which is far from the only valid form of philosophy. 
 
Yes, many people on headfi "hear things" because they want to. However, lots of people also hear things because their brain-ear system is giving them solid anecdotal evidence that what they hear it actually a fact of reality. Just because you are uncomfortable with a method of evidence gathering does not dismiss that evidence because you claim it is superstitious.
 
Sorry for the off-topic response folks. I tire of the "where is the evidence" argument that is so flawed and limited in its scope, seeking to define acceptable evidence as they demand more evidence.

sorry but we're not discussing philosophy or the potential existence of a higher being. we're talking about how sending a particular signal into a coil moving a membrane will supposedly help get a better sound after some made up duration. whatever the actual effect, it's 100% about physics. philosophy, taste or beliefs won't actually alter the way the coil will move or where the membrane will bend. so let's not throw in random unrelated stuff for no reason.
 
 as it's all about physics, it might be a good idea to care about science. you have enough information to build a reliable model and predict the result of a given burn in method(I don't know about you, but I sure can't do that, I just lack too much data). or we do a proper test to verify what is actually happening. and that involves at least 2 new hd650 at the same time with very close measurements for just some minimal anecdotal evidence. and that very minimalist test is already something only a handful of audiophiles will ever try(I did something like that with cheap IEMs twice, but that's it).
so I really have no idea what this below is supposed to refer to:
However, lots of people also hear things because their brain-ear system is giving them solid anecdotal evidence that what they hear it actually a fact of reality.
 

it's obviously a method I'm not yet aware of. please share.
let's say I go and do what almost every owner of a hd650 who tried a burn in method did. I buy a new pair of hd650 and use some specific burn in method. what did I learn about the effectiveness of the burn in method? nothing! not anything. because I don't know that the resulting sound is different or any better than if I had instead just listened to music with that pair. no control sample = no actual idea of how my method really impacted the sound compared to doing nothing and listening to my music. yet that's what most people will use to convince themselves that a method has a particular impact. that much isn't superstition, it's a good old fallacy.
 
to be clear, I'm not saying that there isn't out there a method that really helps the hd650 have a good run. I honestly don't know. there certainly are ways to ruin the headphone, so maybe there are ways to keep it well longer. my point wasn't about how effective some method is or isn't. but why anybody would believe that a given method will alter the physical behavior of a driver, without being concerned enough to properly check the actual physical impact. it's that strange misplaced confidence in totally unverified made up methods that amazes me and makes me talk about rituals and superstition, because there doesn't seem to be much else most of the time. that other guy did it, so I started doing it, and I'll show my son how to do it. why? well I'm not sure but I do it anyway, just in case, that and maybe carrying my rabbit foot for good luck.
 
Oct 8, 2016 at 8:09 AM Post #35,676 of 46,521
  Exactly.
 
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There's a lot of willful ignorance, hand-waving, and misinformation, on HF.
 
Truth is, peoples' brains adjust at different rates to the sound of a new HP. That's scientific evidence -- get an fMRI scanner and view the images of the cortex of people as they listen to the same track with a HP. Musicians vs. non-musicians, etc. Completely unique brain activity signatures for each person, and the rate at which each signature stabilizes over time is different. HP properties are irrelevant -- the end-point, quality-limiting organ of music perception is the brain. Not the HP. (Which is why I refuse to spend $3K or whatever on a fricking headphone....much better spent on an amp for my floor system imo).
 
Too busy enjoying the musik here to even think about "burn-in" or whatever  -- it's Thanksgiving Day weekend here, and I've found some fat turkeys....

now I'm just confused. I mostly agree, but you say "exactly" to a good deal of the post that trashed mine that I find empty of any valid argument on the matter of burn in method and impact on the driver. so do I now disagree with myself and I don't know it? or was there a left turn somewhere and I missed it?
biggrin.gif
 
 
Oct 8, 2016 at 11:18 AM Post #35,680 of 46,521
Been on the fence for either a 600 or 650 and just ordered the 650 yesterday and it came today!
Can't wait to hear what they sound like!



I upgraded from the 598 to the 650 myself, you won't be disappointed!
 
Oct 8, 2016 at 11:46 AM Post #35,682 of 46,521
castleofargh
Like I said in my first sentence I am equally skeptical of burn in as you. I take issue with your argument of why people should not share their born in experiences, not the basic thrust of your hypothesis.

I am not an electrical engineer. I am a physicist. My understanding of ee posting on headfi is that burn is theoretically could be happening by flexing a dynamic driver into a used state, molding and setting solder joints,slight impedance variation changes within wires over use, etc. Although I find those answers to be limited, as a physicist I must acknowledge that they are theoretically possible and answers to the demand for evidence to a degree.

Do I buy into burn in? Sorta, but not really. Do I discount someone hearing a sonic change in their headphones over time, absolutely not as that is valid evidence it is occurring. Just because they don't have a scientific model to explain the changes doesn't mean the changes are not occurring. In this case, the evidence might point to our lack of scientific understanding.
 
Oct 8, 2016 at 11:58 AM Post #35,683 of 46,521
Do I discount someone hearing a sonic change in their headphones over time, absolutely not as that is valid evidence it is occurring.

 
In my view, someone hearing a sonic change in their headphone over time is not valid evidence that sonic change is occurring.
It's like measuring distance with a ruler that has very small spacing between marks but the total lenght changes drastically with temperature.
It might look as a proper tool, but it's not.
 
Oct 8, 2016 at 12:04 PM Post #35,684 of 46,521
In my view, someone hearing a sonic change in their headphone over time is not valid evidence that sonic change is occurring.
It's like measuring distance with a ruler that has very small spacing between marks but the total lenght changes drasticaly with temperature.
It might look as a proper tool, but it's not.


I get that and think you have a fair point. Lots of time when people hear a change the change is probably real but it is a case of brain burn in instead, other times it may be people are hearing a case of actually equipment burn in. I am just more inclined than you to give the benefit of the doubt and trust what people say they are hearing is actually what they are hearing.
 

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