[TeddyShot]

I had the same problem but constant use eventually loosens them up.  You don't need to do anything special with them, except use them.  Eventually the stiffness works itself out and they become quiet.  By the way I also experienced squeaking noises coming from the pads but continual use had them settle in nicely too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like we're having opposite problems. Mine were stiffer but still moved smoothly. Now they are looser and squeak when I swivel them. Of course I do feel extra friction when they squeak so it could be the same thing you mentioned.

 

[DDDamian]

Just a note for those considering the E12/E12a - the E12a is meant for IEM's with low impedances. For the HD650 you want the E12.

 

[Digital7]

A blob might have been overstating things I guess. On at least one live recording of Jeff Buckley, if I use my HD-800s out of the FiiO X5 (or with the HD600 and HD650 back when I owned them, with amps of differing quality) it sounds like I'm at the back of the audience, with everything happening in front of me. Out of the Schiit Valhalla or the more expensive amps or DAPs I have here, it sounds like I'm in the middle of the audience. If you happen across someone with an X5 at least (I haven't tested my iDevices recently with the HD-800s) then I suggest comparing if you can, with suitable music.

 


Currawong, i owe you somewhat of an apology. I've just realized that some of the amps/dacs you mentioned are "TUBE". So, i can confirm that your observations would be correct; do you notice this phenomena of... "like I'm at the back of the audience, with everything happening in front of me, but out of the Schiit Valhalla or the more expensive amps or DAPs I have here, it sounds like I'm in the middle of the audience. "


While i was writing my replies last night i hadn't slept for literally 24hours and forgot to mention what happens with real analog mixing desks and Tube equipment. During song production, when we insert song mixes through analog compressors and Tube equipment and Classic 80's mixing desks, the stereo-field literally 'opens-up further' and additionally the sound gets slightly more three dimensional, much more so than the original static mix. The 'analogue' or 'Tube' situation is a whole different kettle of fish, so i do formally apologize, but you must admit, again as i said before, it's not the headphone doing this, i'm making a concession solely in relation to using a TUBE Amp/DAC.

For anyone interested in how this is, the simple answer is this, for example in 80's analog mixing desks (does anyone remember the 'tone' of 70's and 80's music?) those mixing desks are full of what one would technically call 'imperfections', anomalies as compared to pure digital systems, but it's exactly those anomalies and 'imperfections' that impart their 'character' to the sonic spectrum of the song/mix; these attributes of 'character' can be measured in the circuit path of a mixing console, which appears to add nonlinear dynamic artifacts to an audio signal such as specific types of harmonics, saturations, phase distortions, dynamic frequency deviations, crosstalk, and noise. And for some weird reason, this all affects the music in a way which is deemed or often described as VERY MUSICAL.

However, i will mention that with using a 'TUBE' Amp/DAC, this phenomena i described which happens 'during' song production would not be the case 'after' that fact anywhere near as much, due to the TUBE DAC/Amp having superior specs in relation to distortion, crosstalk, noise and dynamic frequency deviations, these things would be much less than a typical 80's mixing desk, so this phenomena you mentioned would be purely down to the TUBE adding 'saturation' and 'harmonics' which are indeed responsible for adding a bit more lucid 'presence' and 'definition' to the entire sound, thus explaining what you are hearing.

 

[mikoss]

 
Today I decided to buy them again after having sold them in 2013. I will receive them on Friday. Then I can see which Fiio E12 version or Meier Stepdance drives them best. I will order me a 1.5 m/3.5 mm  cable from the same chinese guy that sold me the superb cable for my HD700.
 

That cable looks niiiice. Does this guy have a site?

 

[penmarker]

 

  A blob might have been overstating things I guess. On at least one live recording of Jeff Buckley, if I use my HD-800s out of the FiiO X5 (or with the HD600 and HD650 back when I owned them, with amps of differing quality) it sounds like I'm at the back of the audience, with everything happening in front of me. Out of the Schiit Valhalla or the more expensive amps or DAPs I have here, it sounds like I'm in the middle of the audience. If you happen across someone with an X5 at least (I haven't tested my iDevices recently with the HD-800s) then I suggest comparing if you can, with suitable music.

 


Currawong, i owe you somewhat of an apology. I've just realized that some of the amps/dacs you mentioned are "TUBE". So, i can confirm that your observations would be correct; do you notice this phenomena of... "like I'm at the back of the audience, with everything happening in front of me, but out of the Schiit Valhalla or the more expensive amps or DAPs I have here, it sounds like I'm in the middle of the audience. "


While i was writing my replies last night i hadn't slept for literally 24hours and forgot to mention what happens with real analog mixing desks and Tube equipment. During song production, when we insert song mixes through analog compressors and Tube equipment and Classic 80's mixing desks, the stereo-field literally 'opens-up further' and additionally the sound gets slightly more three dimensional, much more so than the original static mix. The 'analogue' or 'Tube' situation is a whole different kettle of fish, so i do formally apologize, but you must admit, again as i said before, it's not the headphone doing this, i'm making a concession solely in relation to using a TUBE Amp/DAC.

For anyone interested in how this is, the simple answer is this, for example in 80's analog mixing desks (does anyone remember the 'tone' of 70's and 80's music?) those mixing desks are full of what one would technically call 'imperfections', anomalies as compared to pure digital systems, but it's exactly those anomalies and 'imperfections' that impart their 'character' to the sonic spectrum of the song/mix; these attributes of 'character' can be measured in the circuit path of a mixing console, which appears to add nonlinear dynamic artifacts to an audio signal such as specific types of harmonics, saturations, phase distortions, dynamic frequency deviations, crosstalk, and noise. And for some weird reason, this all affects the music in a way which is deemed or often described as VERY MUSICAL.

However, i will mention that with using a 'TUBE' Amp/DAC, this phenomena i described which happens 'during' song production would not be the case 'after' that fact anywhere near as much, due to the TUBE DAC/Amp having superior specs in relation to distortion, crosstalk, noise and dynamic frequency deviations, these things would be much less than a typical 80's mixing desk, so this phenomena you mentioned would be purely down to the TUBE adding 'saturation' and 'harmonics' which are indeed responsible for adding a bit more lucid 'presence' and 'definition' to the entire sound, thus explaining what you are hearing.

Those imperfections make music musical just like how a professional wedding photographer makes a shot look a lot better than how the wedding looks like to the naked eye - he/she plays with the light, lens, angle, etc to create the perfect distortions that is more beautiful than reality.

 

[Digital7]

Those imperfections make music musical just like how a professional wedding photographer makes a shot look a lot better than how the wedding looks like to the naked eye - he/she plays with the light, lens, angle, etc to create the perfect distortions that is more beautiful than reality.

 


I myself am also an enthusiast photographer, so am acquainted with what you're saying.

In software if i take a RAW .DNG file (not a JPEG) and starting altering "White balance" "Contrast" "Colour Saturation" "Dynamic Range" and a "soft focus" filter, such things cumulatively do indeed produce a stark difference, especially the "soft focus" filter which is commonly used for a romantic affect in wedding photos; these types of post production changes can be seen by some as more pleasing to the eye. However, i myself am a purist when it comes to photography, so i aim for dead-on 'neutral' true-to-life colour from the original scene. The key for me is to capture 'flattering' lighting found 'at the scene' so to speak, whether by deliberately shooting at dawn or dusk or using a specific light during the shot to add a certain tone or light ambiance that appears attractive and complementary as well as complimentary.

 

[kman1211]

That's pretty much why I prefer the tube sound personally. I personally find tubes easier on my ears, I am more likely to get aural fatigue when listening to SS amps for extended periods of time than tube or hybrid amps some reason. 

 

[Billheiser]

Anyone else ever have a problem with a squeaky headband? Whenever I swivel the right ear cup left and right it squeakes, and it feels looser. It barely started happening today.

Silicone lubricant will do the trick.  It's inert compared to petroleum based lubricants, so it's safe for plastics, paint, skin, whatever.

 

[pietcux]

That cable looks niiiice. Does this guy have a site?

The guy is "low20101020" <1982lg_mr4158obza@members.ebay.com.hk> he has a big variety of different cables in his shop. You can select the length that you prefer. The quality is very good and the prices are fair.

 

[Digital7]

That's pretty much why I prefer the tube sound personally. I personally find tubes easier on my ears, I am more likely to get aural fatigue when listening to SS amps for extended periods of time than tube or hybrid amps some reason. 

 


You are correct. What you described is exactly what music producers use "Saturation" plugins for when producing music. These plugins emulate Tubes and other analog circuitry accurately, specifically the harmonics and saturation (which are actually forms of 'distortion') added by analog Tube gear into the audio signal, and it is well-known that this saturation is a form of musical-sounding compression taking the harsh digital-edge of the sound and making it seem much more pleasing and palatable to the human ear, and the added benefit of that makes it less fatiguing to listen to for extended periods of time. The added presence, definition and saturation all amount to a subtle musical-sound that many music producers are aware of, and thus accurate emulation software plugins are widely used in music production if someone doesn't have access to a 'real' analog mixing desk. However, the latest generation of high-end analog mixing desks in music production are much more cleaner and free of distortion compared to the older analog mixing desks, which is why many plugins are based on the schematics from the classic 70's and 80's mixing desks. Also, the most lauded highly used hardware compressors used in big name studios today were all invented and made in the 60's and 70's, so that's saying something, like the LA2A and the 1176LN, both from the 60's and 70's and reissues of those particular units were introduced because there was simply no other way to get the same sound, and thus explaining why so many software plugins today are released as emulations of that hardware. Only one software company in the world is doing 100% 'accurate' replicas of these hardware classics, and it was found that if they modeled everything except the crosstalk those plugins don't sound or behave the same as the hardware, thus the amazing thing is that even such a seemingly bad and irrelevant things as the crosstalk was vital to all the nuanced behavior of those hardware units.
But then IMO (what with me being a perfectionist and purist of sorts), if you use a TUBE Amp/DAC to play music which has already got saturation and harmonic warmth all over it, then the result can be too much, it becomes to much for me, and quite sickening actually. Just like food, no salt is not good, a little salt does the job, but too much salt becomes unpalatable and ruins the meal, or just like cooking a cake, there is little room for movement in the recipe if you want it to turn-out right, so adding too much sugar will again ruin the whole cake, feel me?

 

[kman1211]

 

  That's pretty much why I prefer the tube sound personally. I personally find tubes easier on my ears, I am more likely to get aural fatigue when listening to SS amps for extended periods of time than tube or hybrid amps some reason. 

 


You are correct. What you described is exactly what music producers use "Saturation" plugins for when producing music. These plugins emulate Tubes and other analog circuitry accurately, specifically the harmonics added by analog Tube gear into the audio signal, and it is well-known that this saturation is a form of musical-sounding compression taking the harsh digital-edge of the sound and making it seem much more pleasing and palatable to the human ear, and the added benefit of that makes it less fatiguing to listen to for extended periods of time. The added presence, definition and saturation all amount to a subtle musical-sound that many music producers are aware of, and thus accurate emulation software plugins are widely used.

But then IMO (what with me being a perfectionist and purist of sorts), if you use a TUBE Amp/DAC to play music which has already got saturation and harmonic warmth all over it, then the result can be too much, it becomes to much for me, and quite sickening actually. Just like food, no salt is not good, a little salt does the job, but too much salt becomes unpalatable and ruins the meal, or just like cooking a cake, there is little room for movement in the recipe if you want it to turn-out right, so adding too much sugar will again ruin the whole cake, feel me?

Ah I see. Though I find emulation of tubes and actual tubes are different sonically. I haven't come across the tube sound properly emulated yet, nothing does the tube sound as good as tubes in my experience. Though I have found on higher end amps the sound between tube and SS become closer and closer. It really depends on the amp as well, some tube amps are distortion heavy and some have very minimal distortion. I always go with what sounds the most natural to my ears, rather than what is considered the most accurate. I think I would develop tinnitus if I don't, I care about my hearing and don't want to damage it, my ears are very sensitive so I take that as a sign I have to go by what is comfortable to listen to. I dislike anything artificial sounding. Clarity and transparency is a huge deal to me as well, I don't mind colored as long as it still retains clarity and transparency. Too much warmth bothers me too as it starts bothering my ears in a different way, but I generally like my food and my music to be very rich. My experience with high quality meals is that it's often rich and full without bothering you system or making you feel bloated, etc. I hate things too sweet or too salty. I do feel you. I'm just an analogue sound junkie. My ideal of high fidelity is the more real it sounds the better it is. Generally I have found good measuring gear does help achieve this.

 

[Digital7]

Ah I see. Though I find emulation of tubes and actual tubes are different sonically. I haven't come across the tube sound properly emulated yet, nothing does the tube sound as good as tubes in my experience. Though I have found on higher end amps the sound between tube and SS become closer and closer. It really depends on the amp as well, some tube amps are distortion heavy and some have very minimal distortion. I always go with what sounds the most natural to my ears, rather than what is considered the most accurate. I think I would develop tinnitus if I don't, I care about my hearing and don't want to damage it, my ears are very sensitive so I take that as a sign I have to go by what is comfortable to listen to. Too much warmth bothers me too as it starts bothering my ears in a different way, but I generally like my food and my music to be very rich. I hate things too sweet or too salty. I do feel you. I'm just an analogue sound junkie. My ideal of high fidelity is the more real it sounds the better it is. Generally I have found good measuring gear does help achieve this.

 


Believe me, the 'exact' sound of analog gear and tubes has been 'successfully' emulated digitally in software. There are four big name software companies in the music industry that make the best quality analog emulation plugins of actual hardware units, three of those companies get 'very close' to where the normal joe blo can't tell a major difference, and one of the companies has nailed it. They are 'accurate' 100% replicas from this one company. There are many producers who 'own' the very expensive hardware being emulated, but now they don't use it because of the latest plugin software from this one company, and like audiophiles there is a lot of us who are absolutely anal about it, but this one software company has achieved it. And no wonder, before releasing the finished product of these software plugins they did extensive tests with the best audiophiles and "Mastering Engineers" in the business, men that are responsible for all the top-flight stuff on the charts today as well as the sound-tracks in big-budget hollywood movies, along with the best Mixing Engineers in the world, twelve altogether in the same room... now turn around, face the wall, and listen, which is which? After much listening NOT ONE OF THEM could discern ONE IOTA OF DIFFERENCE. That's when the software company knew they had succeeded and released the plugins for sale, and those are the software plugins i purchase and use. The owner CEO of that software company is a hardware aficionado himself, who is also a big-time music producer, and he owns the actual hardware mixing desks etc and he wouldn't accept anything less than perfect emulation, so that's another bonus. His self declared statement is that his hardware is now redundant.

I know what you're talking about in general though, 99% of software DOES NOT EMULATE ACCURATELY the actual sound of tube and analog gear, they just give a close approximation to try and mimic it.

The software company i just mentioned has also done a perfect replica of the best Mastering tape-machine to provide us with the exact sound of tape for our mixes, and they nailed that too! How can i prove that? They emulated the 'actual' tape-machine that a big name mastering engineer uses in America inside his very expensive mastering studio, and he laughed at them initially before they were about to do it, because he too felt that most emulations weren't pulling it off 100%, but after the software company had done their magic, that mastering engineer has now 'replaced' his hardware Tape Machine with the software emulation, and this particular mastering engineer is not someone to play with fire when it comes to this stuff.

 

[kman1211]

Ah I see. Though I find emulation of tubes and actual tubes are different sonically. I haven't come across the tube sound properly emulated yet, nothing does the tube sound as good as tubes in my experience. Though I have found on higher end amps the sound between tube and SS become closer and closer. It really depends on the amp as well, some tube amps are distortion heavy and some have very minimal distortion. I always go with what sounds the most natural to my ears, rather than what is considered the most accurate. I think I would develop tinnitus if I don't, I care about my hearing and don't want to damage it, my ears are very sensitive so I take that as a sign I have to go by what is comfortable to listen to. Too much warmth bothers me too as it starts bothering my ears in a different way, but I generally like my food and my music to be very rich. I hate things too sweet or too salty. I do feel you. I'm just an analogue sound junkie. My ideal of high fidelity is the more real it sounds the better it is. Generally I have found good measuring gear does help achieve this.

 


Believe me, the 'exact' sound of analog gear and tubes has been 'successfully' emulated digitally in software. There are four big name software companies in the music industry that make the best quality analog emulation plugins of actual hardware units, three of those companies get 'very close' to where the normal joe blo can't tell a major difference, and one of the companies has nailed it. They are 'accurate' 100% replicas from this one company. There are many producers who 'own' the very expensive hardware being emulated, but now they don't use it because of the latest plugin software from this one company, and like audiophiles there is a lot of us who are absolutely anal about it, but this one software company has achieved it. And no wonder, before releasing the finished product of these software plugins they did extensive tests with the best audiophiles and "Mastering Engineers" in the business, men that are responsible for all the top-flight stuff on the charts today as well as the big-budget hollywood movies, combined with the best Mixing Engineers in the world, twelve altogether in the same room... now turn around, face the wall, and listen, which is which? After much listening NOT ONE OF THEM COULD DISCERN ONE IOTA OF DIFFERENCE. That's when the software company knew they had succeeded and released the plugins for sale, and those are the software plugins i purchase and use. The owner CEO of that software company is a hardware aficionado himself who is a music producer himself, and he owns the actual hardware mixing desks etc and he wouldn't accept anything less that perfect emulation, so that's another bonus. His self declared statement is that his hardware is now redundant.

I know what your'e talking about in general though, 99% of software DOES NOT EMULATE ACCURATELY the actual sound of tube and analog gear, they just give a close approximation to try and mimic it.

The software company i just mentioned has also done a perfect replica of the best Mastering tape-machine to get the exact sound of tape for our mixes, and they nailed that too. How can i prove that? They emulated the 'actual' tape machine that a big name mastering engineer uses in America, and he laughed at them initially before they were about to do it, because he too felt that most emulations weren't pulling it off 100%, but after the software company had done their magic, that mastering engineer has now 'replaced' his hardware Tape Machine with the software emulation, and this particular mastering engineer is not someone to play with fire when it comes to this stuff.

What company is this? I don't think you said the name of it.

 

[jokostyle]

 

What company is this? I don't think you said the name of it.

 
Yes (very interesting) , and have you a link towards something which something which talk about these episodes :
 
 
Quote:

And no wonder, before releasing the finished product of these software plugins they did extensive tests with the best audiophiles and "Mastering Engineers" in the business, men that are responsible for all the top-flight stuff on the charts today as well as the big-budget hollywood movies, combined with the best Mixing Engineers in the world, twelve altogether in the same room... now turn around, face the wall, and listen, which is which? After much listening NOT ONE OF THEM COULD DISCERN ONE IOTA OF DIFFERENCE. That's when the software company knew they had succeeded and released the plugins for sale, and those are the software plugins i purchase and use. The owner CEO of that software company is a hardware aficionado himself who is a music producer himself, and he owns the actual hardware mixing desks etc and he wouldn't accept anything less that perfect emulation, so that's another bonus. His self declared statement is that his hardware is now redundant.

I know what your'e talking about in general though, 99% of software DOES NOT EMULATE ACCURATELY the actual sound of tube and analog gear, they just give a close approximation to try and mimic it.

The software company i just mentioned has also done a perfect replica of the best Mastering tape-machine to get the exact sound of tape for our mixes, and they nailed that too. How can i prove that? They emulated the 'actual' tape machine that a big name mastering engineer uses in America, and he laughed at them initially before they were about to do it, because he too felt that most emulations weren't pulling it off 100%, but after the software company had done their magic, that mastering engineer has now 'replaced' his hardware Tape Machine with the software emulation, and this particular mastering engineer is not someone to play with fire when it comes to this stuff.

 
After searching a little i found :
 
http://www.uaudio.com/about
http://www.uaudio.com/blog/
 
Thanks in advance.

 

[Digital7]

What company is this? I don't think you said the name of it.

 



I do appreciate your interest in the matter, but I sincerely feel as though it's not worth mentioning the exact company to you because it probably wouldn't be very relevant unless you are an actual music producer. These plugins are in proprietary VST (Virtual Studio Technology) format for use 'exclusively' within music DAWs (Digital Audio Workstations) which are used to produce most of the modern music we have heard since 2001. Therefore if you are thinking they might apply to Amps/DACs etc in some way, to experiment, it can't be done.