[Sonic Defender]

   To be fair with this blind testing i will be using a blind fold(with a hole on one side

) and the amp will be behind me and my wife she will be turning off /on the amp without changing the volume then she will switch between SE/ BALANCED mode.The amp is set to Balanced but i will go in the other room so she can decide if she will go SE or Balanced before we begin the test,I will be doing this 4 times and in between the test i will be in the other room so i can not see or hear if she is switch from SE to Balanced. 

That's the spirit!! Do ten trials, and anything above 80% accuracy is good evidence. I'm about to do the same. I just spent pretty large money on a cable upgrade and I can directly test it against the stock cable. I'm going to get my friend to help me and I need to have a way that I can't feel the cable or see it. My instincts tell me I won't be able to tell the difference (but for $500+ Canadian I sure hope I do!). I needed a custom cable to use my integrated amp as it had no headphone circuit so I had a long cable made that taps into the speaker terminals so even if there is no improvement in sound due to the cables, I will still have a nice long cable that allows my to use my integrated. Cheers. 

 

[donlin]

Dude, with all due respect, there is always a need to do blind testing. Otherwise you can have ZERO confidence that what you are hearing isn't completely due to expectation bias. If the differences are real, then your results will be replicated/confirmed anyway so why not do it?

Of course the blind testing debate has been going on for at least 50 years since the beginning of subjective equipment reviews. In my experience, quick AB tests are useless for picking up on real musical differences. It takes long periods of relaxed listening for subtle differences to emerge and be understood.

 

[justaname]

Of course the blind testing debate has been going on for at least 50 years since the beginning of subjective equipment reviews. In my experience, quick AB tests are useless for picking up on real musical differences. It takes long periods of relaxed listening for subtle differences to emerge and be understood.

Phrases like "night and day difference", "clearly audible" are often used to describe a new upgrade...

Funny how its way more difficult to get a positive result in a dbt.

 

[HemiSam]

   
I wish i could flick a switch and change my amp from SE to balanced, unfortunately mine only has a "placebo" switch.   Maybe i'll try wearing a blindfold in future to see if it improves my hearing ability.
 

 
 
I don't care who ya are.  That's funny....
 

 
 
 

 
HS

 

[castleofargh]

 

Dude, with all due respect, there is always a need to do blind testing. Otherwise you can have ZERO confidence that what you are hearing isn't completely due to expectation bias. If the differences are real, then your results will be replicated/confirmed anyway so why not do it?

Of course the blind testing debate has been going on for at least 50 years since the beginning of subjective equipment reviews. In my experience, quick AB tests are useless for picking up on real musical differences. It takes long periods of relaxed listening for subtle differences to emerge and be understood.

 all of the process of hearing is done based on how fast something changes(pressure in my ears) and our ability to notice it. too slow and you hear nothing(below 20hz), too fast and again you fail to notice(above 20khz or even less for older dudes like myself). that by definition tells us that human hearing is about changes at those rhythms. all the audible music is inside those limits of speed. so what could possibly require more than rapid switching to detect a difference between 2 sounds when the sound itself is all about rapid differences?
a decay? well sure, but a decay is usually part loudness part frequency change. for the freq change, what I just said.
for the loudness change, just try to match level some gear with rapid switching and then do it again when listening to an entire song each time and waiting 10second before starting the second gear. do that a few times and it should be enough to confirm that loudness too is best perceived with fast variations.
 
I'm afraid the long listening time thing is just another audio urban legend. coming from the fact that with time, we end up using our very inaccurate long term memory instead of the pretty good short term memory. so even the same song on the same source starts to have noticeable differences if we wait long enough for our memory to fail us.
 
in fact it is the opposite, with longer and relaxed listenings, we adapt to several factors and lose them. if you spend enough time with anything it will ends up sounding almost neutral. that's our brain doing some magic to adapt to anything. a little like wearing colored sunglasses for a few hours. you take them off, and for a moment it's your vision without glasses that is colored. it's pretty much the same trick from our brain who struggled to make our vision normal again with the glasses. so I'm pretty positive that long listening time will never improve discriminating accuracy.
you can argue that you need time to identify some aspects of the listening, like ... I don't know... boredom? or hearing fatigue? but certainly not for differences between 2 sounds.

 

[donlin]

 all of the process of hearing is done based on how fast something changes(pressure in my ears) and our ability to notice it. too slow and you hear nothing(below 20hz), too fast and again you fail to notice(above 20khz or even less for older dudes like myself). that by definition tells us that human hearing is about changes at those rhythms. all the audible music is inside those limits of speed. so what could possibly require more than rapid switching to detect a difference between 2 sounds when the sound itself is all about rapid differences?
a decay? well sure, but a decay is usually part loudness part frequency change. for the freq change, what I just said.
for the loudness change, just try to match level some gear with rapid switching and then do it again when listening to an entire song each time and waiting 10second before starting the second gear. do that a few times and it should be enough to confirm that loudness too is best perceived with fast variations.

I'm afraid the long listening time thing is just another audio urban legend. coming from the fact that with time, we end up using our very inaccurate long term memory instead of the pretty good short term memory. so even the same song on the same source starts to have noticeable differences if we wait long enough for our memory to fail us.

in fact it is the opposite, with longer and relaxed listenings, we adapt to several factors and lose them. if you spend enough time with anything it will ends up sounding almost neutral. that's our brain doing some magic to adapt to anything. a little like wearing colored sunglasses for a few hours. you take them off, and for a moment it's your vision without glasses that is colored. it's pretty much the same trick from our brain who struggled to make our vision normal again with the glasses. so I'm pretty positive that long listening time will never improve discriminating accuracy.
you can argue that you need time to identify some aspects of the listening, like ... I don't know... boredom? or hearing fatigue? but certainly not for differences between 2 sounds.

As I said before, this debate has been going on forever and obviously won't be resolved here. I respectfully and totally disagree with you but it's an interesting discussion.

 

[Solrighal]

You know how some people claim the 650 has a "three blob soundstage" (which it does, kinda)?
 
Try this...
 

 

[410107]

   
Not quite. Head'n'Hifi also ship to the UK from Switzerland. I bought my units from Stefan & Walter and they're superb. There's a few more options too. They're based in Switzerland but shipments are made from Germany to avoid import duty.
 
http://www.headnhifi.com/

Thanks for that tip, think I've made my mind up at last

 

[Solrighal]

 

Thanks for that tip, think I've made my mind up at last

 
It's my pleasure mate. You'll be over the moon with the sound quality, no matter what supplier you go with. One thing, be sure to choose the correct gains for your headphones (both present & future). 1x / 3x works perfectly with the HD 650. You'll hardly ever feel the need for 3x, never mind 6x.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

   To be fair with this blind testing i will be using a blind fold(with a hole on one side

) and the amp will be behind me and my wife she will be turning off /on the amp without changing the volume then she will switch between SE/ BALANCED mode.The amp is set to Balanced but i will go in the other room so she can decide if she will go SE or Balanced before we begin the test,I will be doing this 4 times and in between the test i will be in the other room so i can not see or hear if she is switching from SE to Balanced. 

 
If I asked my wife to do that, I'd get a     

 

[Solrighal]

   
If I asked my wife to do that, I'd get a     

 
Haha, same here. She thinks I'm mad as it is. I'd have no chance trying to rope her in to this madness.

 

[knorris908]

Haha, same here. She thinks I'm mad as it is. I'd have no chance trying to rope her in to this madness.

Funny, I sat my wife down and told her what I bought and exactly how much each headphone and amp cost...

I then told her that I wouldn't keep the equipment that we didn't both agree that we liked best....

10 rounds of blind testing for each component later, we had most of the decision-making down, and then SHE suggested we double-check a couple of the units because she wasn't sure, and could still go either way.

Then she decided she couldn't decide no matter what, "So let's just keep them."

So long as it's HER decision, no issue.

Marriage. Played well is a beautiful thing. Plus I got lucky when she said, "Yes." to begin with...

 

[donlin]

You know how some people claim the 650 has a "three blob soundstage" (which it does, kinda)?

Try this...

I actually have that CD but haven't listened to it for years. I need to give it a try. The first track is shockingly real sounding.

 

[Anavel0]

I haven't tried the Stax CD but I did play the Dr.Chesky binaural recording. I was a little saddened by the lacking height in the soundstage. HD650 can't win them all.

 

[nway]

Yesterday, there was a Lightning Deal on Amazon for the HD 650 for $315 ($340 including tax). I purchased it, but then I cancelled the order. How bad of an idea was that?