[madwolfa]

  Nope. I know what my ears tell me.  Tubes sound different.  There's nothing to debate about that.

 

A short definition of the Subjectivist position on power amplifiers might read as follows:

1. Objective measurements of an amplifier's performance are unimportant compared with the subjective impressions received in informal listening tests. Should the two contradict the objective results may be dismissed out of hand.

 
http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/pseudo/subjectv.htm

 

[hodgjy]

You do realize that most amplifier makers test their measurements when performed under "ideal" conditions, which aren't always reflective of listening conditions, right?
 
Just like MPG estimates for cars.
 
But, by your logic, all amps that reproduce 20-20,000 hz should all sound the same.  But, they don't.

 

[madwolfa]

  You do realize that most amplifier makers test their measurements when performed under "ideal" conditions, which aren't always reflective of listening conditions, right?
 
Just like MPG estimates for cars.
 
But, by your logic, all amps that reproduce 20-20,000 hz should all sound the same.  But, they don't.

 
This whole conversation has turned into this:
 

 
Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Krutsch]

I don't want to heat subject up but just will say my personal opinion.
First of all you will not regret buying the Crack. I owned one, sold it and recently bought one again from Matt and with my favorite tube pairing i own i prefer it to Decware CSP3 (yes both amps have appropriate capacitors upgrade installed).
Second of all i own HA-1 which is SS amp and have a dilemma between selling the Crack and just stick with HA-1 or use HA-1 as Dac only and still keep the Crack

 
I am really leaning in that direction (BH Crack), but am also considering another SS amp (NuForce HA-200).
 
If I had the budget, that wasn't already burned on my surround setup

 , I would order the HA-1.  On paper that looks like an end-game setup, as it appeals to the computer nerd in me; but I wonder about the sound quality.  I take it you aren't sold on it as a headphone amp, if you are pairing it with the the Crack?

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

Beware of emphasized bass on TH600

 
 
I personally think the bass on the TH600 is fine.  I could see how people view recessed mids as bass emphasis.  The TH600 just has the classic Denon "V" shape, the opposite of the HD650 which emphasizes the mids...

 

[JamieMcC]

 
Tube rolling is too murky of a territory for me, sorry. We're already way much off the topic here.

 
Think of tube rolling like seasoning your food.  Its a personal preference with a particular piece of music, a sprinkle of salt or a grind of pepper can sometimes make all the difference to how something tastes, its still meat and potatoes but with just the right amount of seasoning it just tastes better. Its just the same with music and tubes.

 

[madwolfa]

  Think of tube rolling like seasoning your food.  Its a personal preference with a particular piece of music, a sprinkle of salt or a grind of pepper can sometimes make all the difference to how something tastes, its still meat and potatoes but with just the right amount of seasoning it just tastes better. Its just the same with music and tubes.

 
I think people just like the process rather than result here. I've personally tried rolling tubes in my X-CAN V3 with acclaimed Russian NOS (paid like $100) and heard no difference whatsoever.
Does my anecdotal experience prove anything? Not at all. Why would anyone else' do?

 

[olegausany]

I don't want to heat subject up but just will say my personal opinion.
First of all you will not regret buying the Crack. I owned one, sold it and recently bought one again from Matt and with my favorite tube pairing i own i prefer it to Decware CSP3 (yes both amps have appropriate capacitors upgrade installed).
Second of all i own HA-1 which is SS amp and have a dilemma between selling the Crack and just stick with HA-1 or use HA-1 as Dac only and still keep the Crack

 
I am really leaning in that direction (BH Crack), but am also considering another SS amp (NuForce HA-200).
 
If I had the budget, that wasn't already burned on my surround setup

 , I would order the HA-1.  On paper that looks like an end-game setup, as it appeals to the computer nerd in me; but I wonder about the sound quality.  I take it you aren't sold on it as a headphone amp, if you are pairing it with the the Crack?

Yes it's game end setup and it's amp is great that's exactly why i have a dilemma if i will use just HA-1 or sometimes switch to Crack because they both are great with HD800. If HA-1's amp wasn't as good it would be very simple HA-1 would go and Crack would stay but right now HA-1 is a keeper and not going anywhere

 

[Krutsch]

Yes it's game end setup and it's amp is great that's exactly why i have a dilemma if i will use just HA-1 or sometimes switch to Crack because they both are great with HD800. If HA-1's amp wasn't as good it would be very simple HA-1 would go and Crack would stay but right now HA-1 is a keeper and not going anywhere

 
Yeah, and with the HD-800, I am extremely jealous.  Congrats on your rig!

 

[olegausany]

Yes it's game end setup and it's amp is great that's exactly why i have a dilemma if i will use just HA-1 or sometimes switch to Crack because they both are great with HD800. If HA-1's amp wasn't as good it would be very simple HA-1 would go and Crack would stay but right now HA-1 is a keeper and not going anywhere

 
Yeah, and with the HD-800, I am extremely jealous.  Congrats on your rig!

I perfectly understand what you mean, i was in your shoes but still the Crack is the amp to start and even easily end as soon as you find your favorite tube pairing

 

[Ishcabible]

   
I think people just like the process rather than result here. I've personally tried rolling tubes in my X-CAN V3 with acclaimed Russian NOS (paid like $100) and heard no difference whatsoever.
Does my anecdotal experience prove anything? Not at all. Why would anyone else' do?

 
I feel like expectation bias also has a role in it. I had a few unlabeled pairs of tubes for my EHHA and expected/hoped they were the same and sounded the same. While some of them did, one, which I noticed later had some faint markings on the bottom, sounded a little brighter and a little less congested, which is something I was able to replicate every time mixing up the tubes, but the fact that I knew one pair sounded different forced me to find differences that I didn't notice previously.

 

[jimmers]

For a while there I thought I was in Sound Science, but now it's back to Crack I know I'm in HD650 Impressions thread.

 

[Krutsch]

  For a while there I thought I was in Sound Science, but now it's back to Crack I know I'm in HD650 Impressions thread.

 
You're welcome 

 

[Solrighal]

Aye, it went a bit surreal there

 

[castleofargh]

 

  You were trying to attribute me the generalizations I didn't make.

 
If all tubes sound the same, why is tube rolling so popular?

this sums it up from my point of view. everything wolfy said seemed to me to be pretty credible and in context. and you hodgjy sir, you tried to feed the troll repeatedly by misreading(not sure if voluntary) what was said.
but all this made me wonder, isn't the fact that a tube doesn't sound like another one, because it doesn't create the same kind of distortion? then the amp's specs are only as good as the tube that was in it at the time right? and it would also explain why some find no difference, and some do.
anyway from my small xp, the way to get the best out of the hd650 is to drive it well(I mean power, current, sustain voltage etc). and it's not as simple as it seems on that big boy because of how easy it is to get it loud. I enjoy that half assed rumbling bass response I can get from my laptop HO before sleeping, but it would be disrespectful to say that's how a hd650 is supposed to sound. it really levels up with the source.