Sennheiser HD 660S2 thread
Apr 9, 2023 at 6:07 PM Post #3,241 of 6,501
Also:
The fast answer is: the driver in the HD 660S and the HD 700 is the same.

The long answer: The older KDH 580 developed for the HD 580 and still found in the HD 600 and HD 650 is to this day mainly hand assembled, which is not ideal for some precision processes, even though it's extraordinarily consistent for what it is. It was optimized for minimal partial vibrations, which resulted in the extremely smooth and clear response which is for me still practically the optimum.
The SYS38 platform was created in the early 2000s to take some of the properties of the KDH 580 into a more affordable space. It shares the same basic geometry in terms of diaphragm and coil diameter, but is fully automated, comparatively slim so that it can be implemented in a variety of headphones and is highly variable in performance depending on the coil or diaphragm used. Since then it has been used in many 500 series headphones, in some PRO headphones like HD 280 PRO, and in our highest performance Bluetooth models like the Momentum 3 and recently Momentum 4. The highest performance version of it sits in the HD 560S, with the new polymer blend diaphragm and a very light aluminium voice coil. This transducer is also implemented without changes in the NDH 30. However, Neumann is incredibly strict on tolerances for this model in a way that it's on the edge of what's possible in headphone series production, which may contribute to positive characteristics like soundstage.


Coming back to your question, the SYS40 platform was originally devised as a peak-performance automated assembly driver to finally surpass the old KDH 580. While our transducers are generally devised to sound good "out of the box" and in many different acoustic systems, the SYS40 has originally been developed for the HD 650 enclosure. This is because we know that it is fairly optimal in aiding a natural listening experience. The advantages compared to our previous platforms are a stronger magnet, a vented magnetic yoke which reduces air turbulence during incursion into the magnet, a very consistent damping concept and lastly an undampened magnet hole. The magnet hole in the KDH 580 is heavily dampened and is drawn out (internally we call it Rüssel, ie. an elephants trunk), so it acts like a bass tube and slightly lifts up the amplitude in exchange for less "punch". So the new transducer would take over the brilliance of the KDH 580, but improve on bass impact and have overall less distortion. When the SYS40 was finished, the plan was made that the implementation should happen in something that visually connects the HD 800 and HD 600 series, in a design that would become the HD 700. While the design had some benefits such as fantastic comfort, overall it was not ideal acoustically, and we all know the end of that story. the development of the HD 660S was basically just putting the transducer into the headphone it was made for.
I don't know all the ideas behind the initial parameters, but they had some requirements like lower impedance for better drivability across devices. With the HD 660S2 we have optimized all parameters for what we think is ideal music playback, ie. much better detail retrieval and more impactful bass.
Between HD-560S and NDH 30:
Only the diaphragm is similar, otherwise it's a different tuning and ultimately a different driver.
However, I think that sticking much to the drivers can lead us to disregard all the important and additional work that has been done to the housings and the tuning of headphones and above all their actual sound quality. The proof is in the pudding!
 
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Apr 10, 2023 at 8:34 AM Post #3,242 of 6,501
Apr 10, 2023 at 8:40 AM Post #3,244 of 6,501
Thought I'd give the leather pads another go...being less porous than the stock they do change the tone slightly, maybe a little sharper and less forgiving but more immediate, soundstage is a little tighter (less depth?)....so the overall character is different but still the S2. Believe I prefer the stock pads but the lambskin do give a slightly different perspective.
 
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Apr 10, 2023 at 8:41 AM Post #3,245 of 6,501
Thought I'd give the leather pads another go...being less porous than the stock they do change the tone slightly, maybe a little sharper and less forgiving but more immediate, soundstage is a little tighter....so the overall character is different but still the S2.
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You’re just a sucker for those perforated leather pads! 😉
 
Apr 10, 2023 at 9:44 AM Post #3,246 of 6,501
You’re just a sucker for those perforated leather pads! 😉
Hairy ears...lol...velour has a tendency to slip on longer hair...the HD600 series have a good clamp, so are ok.... but something like the AKG 7XX series were always problematic, never stayed in place...the HD800/S are not too bad as the ear sits more inside the cup but their stock pads disintegrate rather quickly, at least for me, and leave black specs everywhere, usually in the ear. : (
 
Apr 10, 2023 at 9:55 AM Post #3,247 of 6,501
Hairy ears...lol...velour has a tendency to slip on longer hair...the HD600 series have a good clamp, so are ok.... but something like the AKG 7XX series were always problematic, never stayed in place...the HD800/S are not too bad as the ear sits more inside the cup but their stock pads disintegrate rather quickly, at least for me, and leave black specs everywhere, usually in the ear. : (
I’ve never had the problem with disintegrating pads on my HD 800, but that’s probably because I’ve worn them so little! I’m one of those unusual people who doesn’t find them particularly comfortable (either to wear or to listen to!) – I’ve always found the six series much more comfortable. For some reason, the 800s just don’t suit my anatomy. Not so with a certain other headphone (cough!). I think I generally prefer velour pads as they don’t get so hot or sweaty. The alcantara leather pads on the Shure 1540 would be an exception though. They might just be the most comfortable headphones pads on the planet! I’ve never tried to fit them to the six series though. Hmmm, I wonder if it’s possible……
 
Apr 10, 2023 at 10:17 AM Post #3,248 of 6,501
I’ve never had the problem with disintegrating pads on my HD 800, but that’s probably because I’ve worn them so little! .......
Got my HD800S just after they were available and have been through 5 or 6 pairs of pads so far since, same for my Urbanites which have a similar material .... the velour on the 6XX's do not do this, they just get flattened.

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Apr 10, 2023 at 10:39 AM Post #3,249 of 6,501
Got my HD800S just after they were available and have been through 5 or 6 pairs of pads so far since, same for my Urbanites which have a similar material .... the velour on the 6XX's do not do this, they just get flattened.

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That’s not nice. I’ve had a similar thing happen on some studio headphones with faux leather pads (Sony 7509HD), but not with any kind of velour pads.
 
Apr 10, 2023 at 11:19 AM Post #3,250 of 6,501
Got my HD800S just after they were available and have been through 5 or 6 pairs of pads so far since, same for my Urbanites which have a similar material .... the velour on the 6XX's do not do this, they just get flattened.



For a headphone that expensive that shouldn’t even remotely happen. That’s just a poor material choice of pads. I’ve generally found velour can last years, some retain their firmness and some don’t depending on foam inside and how tightly you wear the headphones.
 
Apr 10, 2023 at 11:27 AM Post #3,251 of 6,501
Apr 10, 2023 at 4:47 PM Post #3,252 of 6,501
Remove my thread if I'm going off track. But with talk about other Senn headphones comparing to the hd660s2, etc.....well what's your views on the hd700. Bearing in mind I have the hd580, 600, 660s. Some reviews hate it .....but some don't mind it . And I like all types of jazz. Jazz fusion, jazz rock, soul and funk. So thanks for any input.
 
Apr 10, 2023 at 5:31 PM Post #3,253 of 6,501
Planning to.....I'm also on my 4th Senneheiser balanced cable as the rubber also has diseintgrated, thankfully Sennheiser has sent me new ones but the problem has not been resolved....my body oils but be corrosive, it's a known issue with lots of reported cases. : (
Never any problems with the HD6XX cables, ever. : )
Sadly # 3 has bitten the dust..gummy and cracked again, that is 3 Sennheiser balanced cables in 6 years. : ( Never experienced that with any other cable… ever!
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The oil from my skin myst be caustic with whatever rubber they use with HD800…unfortunately it’s a commonly reported issue…so not just me.
I’ve contacted Sennheiser once more but will be going 3rd party regardless.
 
Apr 10, 2023 at 5:33 PM Post #3,254 of 6,501
Remove my thread if I'm going off track. But with talk about other Senn headphones comparing to the hd660s2, etc.....well what's your views on the hd700. Bearing in mind I have the hd580, 600, 660s. Some reviews hate it .....but some don't mind it . And I like all types of jazz. Jazz fusion, jazz rock, soul and funk. So thanks for any input.
I was in the group of people who kind of "hated" the sound signature unfortunately. Although hate is a strong word, the sharp treble spike and lack of sub-bass + bass generally made me dislike them very much so without EQ. Sure, toning down perhaps just the treble OR boosting the bass is fine, but having to do both made me wonder why I spend so much on them to then have to rely on EQ, which I really do not do at all anymore these days.

I have to add that with some classic tracks especially they can sound very detailed and overall just showcases what the driver could be capable of, I guess that is what we see in the 660S2 now with an updated design and tuning.

Comparing the sound between the 660S2 and 700 in more detail, only being able to rely on memory which is plenty here though, I would say the 660S2 is simply a lot more balanced and suited for modern music especially - In some electronic tracks the treble was so unbearable that I just avoided this kind of genre at first, I really was in denial for some reason that these may just not be to my liking sound wise because it's Sennheiser and a direct upgrade to the 6xx series right? So I slowly added more and more EQ instead of just trying the 650/600 - Big mistake.

Summed up I'd say the 700 gets an okay 5/10 from me sound wise, 8-9/10 with an EQ, where as the 660S2 is more like a solid 9 or even 9.5 completely out of the box. The comfort was an easy 11/10 though I'm not even exaggerating, they disappeared from my head very quickly each time. Of course the 6xx series is also very comfy thankfully and I actually like the added clamping force, solid 9/10.

If I could go back in time I'd give my 19 year old self the 660S2 and just be like "Have fun for the next decade, no need to try these other 50 headphones." - But where would be the fun in that I reckon. :wink:
 
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Apr 10, 2023 at 5:37 PM Post #3,255 of 6,501
Remove my thread if I'm going off track. But with talk about other Senn headphones comparing to the hd660s2, etc.....well what's your views on the hd700. Bearing in mind I have the hd580, 600, 660s. Some reviews hate it .....but some don't mind it . And I like all types of jazz. Jazz fusion, jazz rock, soul and funk. So thanks for any input.
I really liked the HD700 but IMHO the S2 is a better accomplished phone especially in the upper frequencies, sound stage is not as expansive but still pretty good. If you're a fan of the HD600 the HD700 may not fair well, very different tonally.
 

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