[erics75]

How difficult is to make a non-angled driver of the n30 and put it in the 6 series shell?

It is their driver more or less afterall.

Assuming you're looking for the n30 sound in a HD6 series chassis, my fear would be the tuning would change as the acoustic chamber/cups are different. Even with a lot of tuning and design those cups are just so physically different from each other I'm not sure they could do it. i think just getting the n30 would be the better option, assuming that's the sound profile you're after.

 

[xeizo]

Just ordered a pair of refurbished HD560S to see if I can detect the driver DNA between it and N**-3* and the 660S2

 

[rafaelo]

Wondering why you don’t just get the Neumann?

I mean personally speaking I want to buy both neumman and 660s2. I think I can buy them from a shop in Greece and put 12 interest free installments in my credit card and share the cost in a year.

Problem is in Greece you cannot return back products but I am absolutely sure I will keep the 660s2 as I am fan of whole concept, enclosure etc.

For the neumann I am bit hesitating and also I am waiting for a black version as well.

 

[rafaelo]

Assuming you're looking for the n30 sound in a HD6 series chassis, my fear would be the tuning would change as the acoustic chamber/cups are different. Even with a lot of tuning and design those cups are just so physically different from each other I'm not sure they could do it. i think just getting the n30 would be the better option, assuming that's the sound profile you're after.

Yes this a reasonable explanation.

Matched drivers means more consistency for the sound coming from left and right I would have thought.

I see some drivers used in different enclosure though 700 driver to 660s , 560s to n30. Maybe an interesting expirement for a different flavour in 6xx series. The 58x might have a 5 series driver as well. OK the angle being a serious obstacle here.

 

[Mike F]

Just ordered a pair of refurbished HD560S to see if I can detect the driver DNA between it and N**-3* and the 660S2

DNA without doubt. Just as the S1 and S2 driver will share DNA.

 

[Mike F]

I mean personally speaking I want to buy both neumman and 660s2. I think I can buy them from a shop in Greece and put 12 interest free installments in my credit card and share the cost in a year.

Problem is in Greece you cannot return back products but I am absolutely sure I will keep the 660s2 as I am fan of whole concept, enclosure etc.

For the neumann I am bit hesitating and also I am waiting for a black version as well.

I totally understand you liking for the six series enclosure. In many ways it would also be my ideal. All I can say is that if comfort is an issue or concern then even though the Neumann are somewhat heavier I find them extremely comfortable and have no problems with the enclosure as far as comfort is concerned. In fact, if anything I would say that on balance they are more comfortable than the six series. Sound wise it’s more personal, of course, but I would describe it as a perfected HD 580/600. Extremely neutral and revealing, but with the mids and easy listening nature of the 580/600. I can certainly see why someone might want to have both the S2 and the NDH 30, given the reports of the S2’s sonic signature.

I’m not holding my breath for a black version. I can’t honestly see why they would bother. Some people might prefer it cosmetically, but professional products (or users) are not usually concerned with cosmetics. There are good reasons, as I have said before, for a closed back to be black, and of course they also changed the NDH 20 to balanced wiring and cable with the black version, but I personally can’t see any reason for a black 30.

 

[erics75]

Just ordered a pair of refurbished HD560S to see if I can detect the driver DNA between it and N**-3* and the 660S2

looking forward to your impressions! i have the S2 and 560S, but not the n30. Between the S2 and 560 they have a kind of house sound similarity, but are very different up close. Sennheiser's house sound IMO is one of overall balance with strong mids and a neutral to neutral-warm tonality, with the top and bottom frequencies varying the most from model to model. I feel that does apply to the S2 and 560 on a macro level. But as you dig deeper they're very different sounding.

The bass on the S2 goes deeper and is of much higher quality, IMO. The bass on the 560 seems a bit one note at times. It's either bass on, or bass off. That's oversimplifying of course, there is nuance there, but compared to the S2 that's how I hear it more or less. The S2 has more bass control, texture, and resolution.

Both have good mids but the 560 is more in line with the older 600/650 in that it pushes the mids forward a bit, whereas the S2's mids sit more evenly between the bass and treble. Tonally the mids are cooler sounding on the 560, but more forward and present. The S2 again has the edge in resolution, control, and overall technical ability.

Treble IMO is very different. Both have excellent extension and presence, but the S2's treble is of higher quality. I find the 560 slightly fatiguing for long sessions, with a treble response that is harder and more tiresome. The S2's treble is smooth and trouble free for me, and i'm very treble sensitive.

Soundstage is the one area the 560 excels at vs the S2. It's wider and gives more of a sense of space. The S2 is more classic 6 series intimate. Not bad at all, but not much sense of space and scale. What space there is though is well layered and separated.

I love the 560 overall and think in it's price range it's tough to beat. But the S2 just plays in a higher league IMO. Would love to hear other's impressions.

 

[headstef]

I can’t remember the details, but I’m pretty sure that the NHD 30 uses a modified HD 560 S driver….. I’m sure somebody here can remember where the details of that have been posted.

@headstef?

I think there is still room for clarification because the last two relative statements by Sennheiser lips are a bit conflicting with each other:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-660s2-thread.966685/page-133#post-17436626

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-660s2-thread.966685/page-132#post-17435862

In the first it is stated by Jarmo that the NDH 30 uses the most advanced version of the "Sys 38" driver, that is the HD-560S driver, but with very careful selection by Neumann, to the limits of what is possible.
In the second, ericpalonen states that only the diaphragm is the same in the drivers of those two headphones, otherwise the driver tuning is different - practically different drivers.
(I did not call them by putting "@" before their names because I think they had enough of the NDH 30 in this thread. )

 

[pietcux]

I can’t remember the details, but I’m pretty sure that the NHD 30 uses a modified HD 560 S driver….. I’m sure somebody here can remember where the details of that have been posted.

@headstef?

Jemo K. : The older KDH 580 developed for the HD 580 and still found in the HD 600 and HD 650 is to this day mainly hand assembled, which is not ideal for some precision processes, even though it's extraordinarily consistent for what it is. It was optimized for minimal partial vibrations, which resulted in the extremely smooth and clear response which is for me still practically the optimum.
The SYS38 platform was created in the early 2000s to take some of the properties of the KDH 580 into a more affordable space. It shares the same basic geometry in terms of diaphragm and coil diameter, but is fully automated, comparatively slim so that it can be implemented in a variety of headphones and is highly variable in performance depending on the coil or diaphragm used. Since then it has been used in many 500 series headphones, in some PRO headphones like HD 280 PRO, and in our highest performance Bluetooth models like the Momentum 3 and recently Momentum 4. The highest performance version of it sits in the HD 560S, with the new polymer blend diaphragm and a very light aluminium voice coil. This transducer is also implemented without changes in the NDH 30. However, Neumann is incredibly strict on tolerances for this model in a way that it's on the edge of what's possible in headphone series production, which may contribute to positive characteristics like soundstage.

 

[rafaelo]

Great info thanks!!!

So I understand now. Sys40 is 660s and the new driver in s2 costs 3 times more than the driver in s1.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

I know that was a joke, obviously, but I have to say that, rightly or wrongly, this is something which somewhat puts me off getting the S2. Soniva is like any other company – it exists to make a profit. It would be nice to think that they exist to satisfy the needs and desires of hi-fi enthusiasts, and to a certain extent that may be true because obviously that is where they’re aiming their sales, but at the end of the day they want to make a profit. Having surely realised that successive generations of the six series will always be something that I large number of people will buy I’m certain there will be an S3 and S4. That’s fine. Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all, but I would rather find something new and genuinely different which is going to become legendary like the 600 and 650.

To be fair, Sennheiser was a for-profit company before the sale too, and all the other companies selling audiophile gear are certainly trying to make money as well - I don't think Soniva has any greater or lesser motivation for profit than anybody else on the field, just down to whether the products that we are offered are stand outs and wow us sufficiently to get a good reputation on a case by case basis (IMO).

 

[artvandelay9]

I am thinking of selling my 650 as redundant, now that I have 660S2.

Please explain, how do these pair and hence why should I keep them both ?

They're different headphones, and I don't personally find the S2 makes my 650 redundant at all. As @erics75 mentioned on a previous page, if you're someone who simply wants a single headphone then I could see owning one or the other, but if you've already got 650's I'd probably wait on moving them until you get to know the S2, unless you simply strongly prefer the S2.

I find the 650 to be smoother and more laid back overall, with a thicker tonality. The S2 to me sounds more defined across the entire spectrum, with more zip and energy. I *usually* want this, but not always, which is where the 650 comes in. I'm planning to keep my 650 and move my 800S instead, as for me the S2 fills in better for what I was using the 800S for. It's not as spacious and possibly not as detailed (likely debatable), but it sounds without EQ the way that I try to make the 800S sound by using EQ and I find the 6X0 series to be the most comfortable on my big dumb head.

 

[chesebert]

To be fair, Sennheiser was a for-profit company before the sale too, and all the other companies selling audiophile gear are certainly trying to make money as well - I don't think Soniva has any greater or lesser motivation for profit than anybody else on the field, just down to whether the products that we are offered are stand outs and wow us sufficiently to get a good reputation on a case by case basis (IMO).

I don't think audiophile was ever the target market for Sennheiser. They have always catered to the pro and general consumer markets and designed their products for those markets. The reason we got HD600 and HD650 was because of the needs of the pro audio market at the time.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

I'm probably using the term too informally for where I'm using it - but, Orpheus HE90 were released in the early '90s and cost $16,000, so maybe I'm not?

 

[SchwizzelKick66]

Okay, the issue I'm having now is that I'm enjoying my 660S2 way more than my HD800s. My brain is telling me the 660S2 sounds better, but there is conflicting empirical evidence in my bank account transaction history . It seems I paid over freaking double for the HD800s. Does not compute.

Seriously though, I love the 800s. But when I switch back to the 660S2 its an "ahhhhhh" refreshing moment. They just sound SO GOOD and so relaxing. Dear lord these headphones are amazing. Like what the heck.