[bagwell359]

Yeah, we all arise for our favs - but:

Different music, background, equipment... different opinions.

The best I ever heard the sound on a SS amp is the Violectric V-281, still not the equal of the BHC. Makes sense to me, given when the 600 was developed, and the way it sounds on OTL amps, it seems quite likely it was developed in whole or part on tubes.

It may well have been developed using classical music. Doubt it was death metal.

It's not the answer to all music. It's a tool, a specific sort of tool that if you like it, the price seems absurd given todays standards. If you are a fan of closed back bass cannons, the 600 must seem like a relic of some earlier era. Maybe even view it as an absurd toy.

 

[SilverEars]

Yeah, we all arise for our favs - but:

Different music, background, equipment... different opinions.

The best I ever heard the sound on a SS amp is the Violectric V-281, still not the equal of the BHC. Makes sense to me, given when the 600 was developed, and the way it sounds on OTL amps, it seems quite likely it was developed in whole or part on tubes.

It may well have been developed using classical music. Doubt it was death metal.

It's not the answer to all music. It's a tool, a specific sort of tool that if you like it, the price seems absurd given todays standards. If you are a fan of closed back bass cannons, the 600 must seem like a relic of some earlier era. Maybe even view it as an absurd toy.

I wish I can compare V281 to my BHA-1. Interestingly, BHA-1 doesn't sound like what one would expect of a SS amp. I know you heard it already, and you know that you can hear more bass out of the Sennheiser 6 series. I assume V281 would be in the same lines.

Well, the Sennheiser Orpheus and HE-1 are tube based, but then again, their amps are SS. So, it's likely an accidental greatness. I think in general, a good community is responsible for the knowledge. Fang wouldn't have raised the price of HE-6 over HE-500 or HE-560 unless for the community. lol

 

[jsk ksj]

What would you recommend pairing with the hd600 for less than £500, used is ok, but must be available in the UK?

I have been offered a very cheap little dot MK4 but I have read somewhere that any tube amp under £500 is a waste of time.


***********Ignore all this. I'm not in the market for a tube amp !*******

 

[bagwell359]

Really? No tubes for a long time audiophile is hard to believe.

Before my move to headphones, I was using inefficient speakers in giant rooms. A pair of Pass X-150's was the only reasonable choice really. I had some hybrid pre-amps, but small signal tubes isn't an amp. Plus once I heard the Pass Ono and Pass line stage, bye bye ARC SP-15.

The issue with tubes is that you have to try out a worthy tube amp that brings something that SS amps cannot bring to the table to be worth it. There are generalizations of tubes to perform worse in terms of measurements, but subjectively, there can be tube amps that people might think otherwise in terms of how the sound is heard. BHC is one great example of that for Sennheisers. It probably doesn't measure very well.

Yup headphones such as ribbons and estats tend to sing best with tubes, or hybrids. Others, depends....

You can experience many subpar tube amps and develop an opinion that they are generally inferior, and it's based on a sampling of tube amps that doesn't do much to the sound that SS can do better. If the experience is just that, of course the opinion would be what it is. This is probably one of the reasons why we have differing opinions if based on experiences.

My last two tube amps - before the BHCs of course was a Jadis and a Manley - about as esoteric as one could get back then.

 

[bagwell359]

What would you recommend pairing with the hd600 for less than £500, used is ok, but must be available in the UK?

Can you get the XDUOO line there? T-26 is the budget choice. Might be some used Bottlehead Cracks over there used too.

Add: I'm near the twilight of my 55 year audio journey, I tend not to listen to too many amps these days. Headphones, yes. So, someone else might give better advice.

Add: Little dot is not up to the job.

 

[BobG55]

The midrange is forward and very natural, but it’s more emphasized in the upper section of the mids than the lower section, making it rely more on clarity than body.

So yes, it is thin in the sense of lower fundamentals , but it’s forward in presentation

Wrong. The midrange on “my” HD600 is “full” and “detailed”. Not thin in the bottom midrange either.

 

[457139]

Wrong. The midrange on “my” HD600 is “full” and “detailed”. Not thin in the bottom midrange either.

I thought i was spontaneously teleported to the bizaroo head-fi when i read the 600 being described as "thin"

 

[wantan]

given when the 600 was developed, and the way it sounds on OTL amps, it seems quite likely it was developed in whole or part on tubes.

What leads you to this idea?
I think it was developed in the 1990s and at that time there were hardly any specialized headphone amps in existence at all. Let alone tube headphone amps.
I'd assume it was developed mostly on regular stereo amps assuming to be driven on a more or less high output impedance.
But I don't know so I ask.

 

[ekbalco]

Wrong. The midrange on “my” HD600 is “full” and “detailed”. Not thin in the bottom midrange either.

I agree. I've settled on my 600s after having the 660s, the 660S2 and the 650s. I just find my 600s to give me "everything" that I'm looking for. Every nuance, every detail. Frankly I found my 660S2 to be somewhat muddy compared to my 600sand I've sold them. But each to their own obviously.

 

[jsk ksj]

I agree. I've settled on my 600s after having the 660s, the 660S2 and the 650s. I just find my 600s to give me "everything" that I'm looking for. Every nuance, every detail. Frankly I found my 660S2 to be somewhat muddy compared to my 600sand I've sold them. But each to their own obviously.

I sold my 660s having found them lifeless & dull.

I had never heard a 600 before recently buying a used marble version & adding the cc mod weight. I could not be happier with them. Fitted a new pair of official Sennheiser pads & I'm loving them.

 

[BobG55]

What leads you to this idea?
I think it was developed in the 1990s and at that time there were hardly any specialized headphone amps in existence at all. Let alone tube headphone amps.
I'd assume it was developed mostly on regular stereo amps assuming to be driven on a more or less high output impedance.
But I don't know so I ask.

1997.

 

[bagwell359]

What leads you to this idea?
I think it was developed in the 1990s and at that time there were hardly any specialized headphone amps in existence at all. Let alone tube headphone amps.
I'd assume it was developed mostly on regular stereo amps assuming to be driven on a more or less high output impedance.
But I don't know so I ask.

Who said tube headphone amps were the only path? There were lots of hybrid and tube integrated amps since about 1985 with headphone outs, and perhaps directly driven.

This is what I do know: SS amps, even the relative hammer - the Ragnarok 1 in balanced out mode, and the perhaps more audiophile Bryston BHA-1 also in balanced out did not ever approach the musicality of the BHC stock, BHCs (mine well overbuilt), and the XDUOO T-26 - all fairly cheap OTL tube amps do. On paper the Rag 1 delivers 3X more power than the BHC. Now the Violectric V-281 did do better, better than the other two named SS amps - in the bass, but not clear on mids/highs

My idea of music is unamplified music in great halls, and more popular music mixed by Doug Sax, not bass cannons, and stacks of Marshall amps.

Not only do I find this true for the HD-600, but also the HD-800, and HD-800S.

I made the point several times that I did not find tube amps a solution for room speakers. Hybrid pre-amps using small signal tubes not such a problem, but still the issues kept me away until I heard my HD-600 paired with my BHCs probably the cheapest way to get to real musicality (as I see it) avilalbale in either headphones or room speakers. I had the 600 as my only can for 2 years, and one of two for a year on my very functional Ragnarok 1 and never once thought that combo was above the threshold of musicality I get from it the past 3 years or so on the BHCs.

The differences I find are:

* 3 blob sound stage is now 5 blobs. It's not correct, but its better.

* Bass with the BHCs is more robust, but not fat which I do not tolerate.

* harmonics - in particular 2nd, are much closer to real - is that THD? Yeah, but I do find the 600 on SS to be a bit astringent, and that is gone

* timbre due to those changes is better, and the need to quiet some of that low->mid treble stuff is also well mitigated.

I'm just one voice, but, if you check the 800, 800S, and 600 threads here you will find dozens that have arrived at essentially similar conclusions about the sound - as far as how it was developed, probably always an open question.

 

[wantan]

Who said tube headphone amps were the only path? There were lots of hybrid and tube integrated amps since about 1985 with headphone outs, and perhaps directly driven.

You wrote above that the HD600 was developed on tubes and I was curious if you had additional information on this.

Since I don't have a BHC I can't comment on this combo. I have a Valhalla 2 which sounds nice but compared to my solid state options it lacks the ability so resolve microdynamics, it doesn't manage a holographic soundstage and bass quality is a level lower. It still sounds nice sometimes because of it's ability to add additional body to notes,. My main solid state amp is the RME ADI 2 DAC FS (also a Corda Jazz FF and Classic FF). I add some 4db bass via EQ and also some higher treble and in my experience this is helps the sound much more than tubes or unique amps.
I also doubt the HD600 needs lots of power, textbook says it doesn't. I had high powered amps like SPL Phonitor, Violectric V280 and Schiit Jot 2 and sold them because they had no additional value over the ADI 2 DAC FS (used on high power with the HD600) with it's EQ abilities.
That's for my taste, others certainly found different setups to suit their taste. I'd be curious to hear a BHC but here in europe it's expensive and hard to get hold of.

 

[jsk ksj]

On mojo2, I just add 2db to the treble shelf.
The cc mod & foam removal takes care of the bass.

 

[Leporello]

The HD 600 scale greatly with amp. They need a lot of voltage. Anybody who thinks they sound thin needs to try them out of a suitable amp, since the thin sound is textbook underdriven for these.

This is untrue. An iphone dongle is all you need if you do not want deafening levels.