[bagwell359]

I’m not convinced about balanced being any different than SE. I’m not good at explaining the technical aspects of audio but I’ve read enough posts on the subject from knowledgeable members in the “Sound Science” section to realize that there really isn’t any difference. I can’t argue the point with you but you can peruse that Forum and you’ll find many posts from “professional” recording people who have debunked this myth about balanced being different or better than SE.

I went through a lot of ABX testing in '99 and '00 over balanced vs SE. While there are outfits that sell boxes purportedly with both functions but only support SE to cash in, it doesn't obviate what I heard. Every piece except old tuners I own or owned since then are balanced.

In two ways I was convinced. One is that I tested and owned a number of SE cables since the early 80's some very expensive ones that behaved in strange ways when lying on the ground or near room boundaries or near rubble or brick walls. Some of them were very well isolated, others not. Could not establish a hierarchy either.

With balanced I got more potent sound with much deeper def/instrument space in the mids and highs and more authority in the bass.

Now couple that with my experience with balanced cable. Interconnects - no change between interconnect cables.

Finally Schitt. Under lots of scrutiny right? Rag 1 SE headphones 3 wpc max. Balanced? 15. Think they would suppress SE for rep? Me neither. My HFMs sound is way better in balanced on that amp. So the cables? Or my expectations? Not a soul at my home or anyone at HF says different. Of course the objectavists usually play in the dollar bin so it's (fortunately for them) a non issue. I knew one of early leaders of that cult. Always a hoot comparing my ARC SP15 w/ I Krell KSA 100 vs his low shelf Yamaha (still not bad) - until time to drive my Duettas. He tried once and blew the protection circuit.

 

[bagwell359]

Let’s not forget the Day Sequerra tuner!…

Seriously overrated. Big pile of Kenwood, Sansui, Accuphase tuners eat it up. Even an underdog piece like the Kenwood 990D might be better. Most of the Dynalabs are overpriced too.

 

[CJG888]

Didn’t Dick Sequerra develop tuners for Marantz (including the 10B) before he set up on his own?

 

[CJG888]

Now that’s a proper tuner:

 

[BobG55]

I went through a lot of ABX testing in '99 and '00 over balanced vs SE. While there are outfits that sell boxes purportedly with both functions but only support SE to cash in, it doesn't obviate what I heard. Every piece except old tuners I own or owned since then are balanced.

In two ways I was convinced. One is that I tested and owned a number of SE cables since the early 80's some very expensive ones that behaved in strange ways when lying on the ground or near room boundaries or near rubble or brick walls. Some of them were very well isolated, others not. Could not establish a hierarchy either.

With balanced I got more potent sound with much deeper def/instrument space in the mids and highs and more authority in the bass.

Now couple that with my experience with balanced cable. Interconnects - no change between interconnect cables.

Finally Schitt. Under lots of scrutiny right? Rag 1 SE headphones 3 wpc max. Balanced? 15. Think they would suppress SE for rep? Me neither. My HFMs sound is way better in balanced on that amp. So the cables? Or my expectations? Not a soul at my home or anyone at HF says different. Of course the objectavists usually play in the dollar bin so it's (fortunately for them) a non issue. I knew one of early leaders of that cult. Always a hoot comparing my ARC SP15 w/ I Krell KSA 100 vs his low shelf Yamaha (still not bad) - until time to drive my Duettas. He tried once and blew the protection circuit.

That’s what I meant when I wrote that I’m not tech savvy and never was able to understand explanations as yours here. Which is why you should post this in the Sound Science Forum and discuss it with their regular members. I’m not being flippant it’s just a fact in my case. I evaluate and judge sound solely by ear and I’ve owned very good balanced amps in the past such as the Headamp GS-X MKII & the Auralic Taurus MKII & to my ears I didn’t hear any difference in sound with headphones in XLR mode.

And I digress because this is actually the HD600 thread and which is not meant for this topic.

 

[bagwell359]

That’s what I meant when I wrote that I’m not tech savvy and never was able to understand explanations as yours here. Which is why you should post this in the Sound Science Forum and discuss it with their regular members. I’m not being flippant it’s just a fact in my case. I evaluate and judge sound solely by ear and I’ve owned very good balanced amps in the past such as the Headamp GS-X MKII & the Auralic Taurus MKII & to my ears I didn’t hear any difference in sound with headphones in XLR mode.

And I digress because this is actually the HD600 thread and which is not meant for this topic.

Well let's bring it back. HD-600 on.my BHCs amp which puts out 1/3 of the power into the 600 that my Rag 1 does sounds remarkably better than the Rag on the 600.

How better? Bass from 85 Hz down to 35 Hz (more than an octave) is filled out in a way that no SS amp I've heard on the 600 (at least 4) can do. Also it now has an actual sound stage. Huge center, good far left and right, nice mid L & R, although slightly angled to listening plane is wrong. Sweeter and warmer (THD?).

So screw the measurements, my ears and those of at least a dozen agree. Same reports from 800 and 650.

Dispute? Agree? NMI (need more information)? Fall back on opinion of the bloodless hiding behind process?

 

[BobG55]

Well let's bring it back. HD-600 on.my BHCs amp which puts out 1/3 of the power into the 600 that my Rag 1 does sounds remarkably better than the Rag on the 600.

How better? Bass from 85 Hz down to 35 Hz (more than an octave) is filled out in a way that no SS amp I've heard on the 600 (at least 4) can do. Also it now has an actual sound stage. Huge center, good far left and right, nice mid L & R, although slightly angled to listening plane is wrong. Sweeter and warmer (THD?).

So screw the measurements, my ears and those of at least a dozen agree. Same reports from 800 and 650.

Dispute? Agree? NMI (need more information)? Fall back on opinion of the bloodless hiding behind process?

I have no idea what you’re talking about. It sounds like you’re trying to impress your own ego by writing this way knowing I won’t understand. I really don’t care bagwell. As I suggested to you before, you should go on the Sound Science Forum and discuss this subject over there. After all, you brought it up in the first place. Your point of view on this subject is moot to me.

 

[bagwell359]

I have no idea what you’re talking about. It sounds like you’re trying to impress your own ego by writing this way knowing I won’t understand. I really don’t care bagwell. As I suggested to you before, you should go on the Sound Science Forum and discuss this subject over there. After all, you brought it up in the first place. Your point of view on this subject is moot to me.

No attempt on my part to impress anything. I was talking balanced vs SE and you demurred. So I went non technical in a thread rife with observations on the OTL vs SS issue.

I'm not going to stop posting my opinions based on subjective and objective experience. I suggest to insulate yourself you put me on ignore.

Good day.

 

[BobG55]

No attempt on my part to impress anything. I was talking balanced vs SE and you demurred. So I went non technical in a thread rife with observations on the OTL vs SS issue.

I'm not going to stop posting my opinions based on subjective and objective experience. I suggest to insulate yourself you put me on ignore.

Good day.

 

[Leywes]

Got a pair of barely used HD600 (2019 ver.) today for $160, surprisingly they are not that "sharp" sounding, nor lack of bass IMO. I'm quite satisfied with the sound
I've been planning to order the HD6xx on the coming Black Friday for the last few weeks, since ~$300 is a bit to much for me for a new pair of HD600.
However, I have to admit the 600s could be fatiguing for longer listening sessions. Would the 6xx/650 still maintain the overall sound representation, but without the "edges" which can cause the fatiguing?
Besides, I much prefer the older design of the 600 line up, rounder edges and the marbling of the HD600. Getting the HD6xx might be another upside for me.

 

[pbarach]

I have never found the HD600 fatiguing at all. It doesn't have much sub-bass, but lower frequencies are very well controlled. I can listen to them all day. I owned 650's briefly, but I found them dark and muddy. I think the HD6xx is essentially the 650, but I haven't heard it.

Some people do find them a little constricting on the head; I stretched mine out for a few days around several books, and they fit me just fine now.

 

[limaaa]

Got a pair of barely used HD600 (2019 ver.) today for $160, surprisingly they are not that "sharp" sounding, nor lack of bass IMO. I'm quite satisfied with the sound
I've been planning to order the HD6xx on the coming Black Friday for the last few weeks, since ~$300 is a bit to much for me for a new pair of HD600.
However, I have to admit the 600s could be fatiguing for longer listening sessions. Would the 6xx/650 still maintain the overall sound representation, but without the "edges" which can cause the fatiguing?
Besides, I much prefer the older design of the 600 line up, rounder edges and the marbling of the HD600. Getting the HD6xx might be another upside for me.

I do get some fatigue with HD600. On some tracks vocals are just to close to me, like they are singing directly to me ears. On some tracks vocals are shouty, and sibilant.

 

[bagwell359]

I do get some fatigue with HD600. On some tracks vocals are just to close to me, like they are singing directly to me ears. On some tracks vocals are shouty, and sibilant.

They don't sound near that on OTL amps. I listened to them a lot on my Rag 1 and the Bryston with a warm romantic DAC (Gumby 1) and sometimes they were dry and a bit strained. I've got the OTL and my 600's won't get played by any SS amp anymore.

 

[sennheiserhd485]

Thinking about the HD 600 for Christmas as first serious cans - tried Hifiman HE400i and wasn't impressed, likely defective pair though.
Can I get some entry level amp and DAC recommendations for HD 600?
On the radar is Topping L30/D10s
Possibly JDS Labs Atom

Thank you! Unfortunately the amp is far out of my price range. I was hoping for $100 or $150 at the most.

 

[jonathan c]

Now that’s a proper tuner:

And this?