Fully agree. I now laugh when I see these announcements for new "flagship" headphones.
Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions Thread
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Fully agree. I now laugh when I see these announcements for new "flagship" headphones.
omniweltall
Headphoneus Supremus
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That's what I did, but after spending so much money on many other headphones.
jonathan c
Headphoneus Supremus
…better late than never…an HF prodigal listener…
If I focus on impedance, gauss, amperage, my listening is impeded……
I think it's perfectly fine--even healthy--to have questions, wonder about some details, it doesn't mean one is focused on them. But of course I share your sentiment if one is getting too obsessed about anything but enjoying the music.
In my opinion, If you want the best headphone to listen and enjoy the emotion of music, (what it’s subconsciously really all about anyway). than the HD600 / HD580 is the best headphone under 5000$ out there. And that price is only because I have not heard more expensive headphones.
I think Sennheiser still really don’t know how valuable this headphone could be priced and still have something better than its competitors.
It really has the best timbre out there hands down. And to me this aspect is where most of the emotion in music lives. (Other than the actual song itself)
the HD600 /580 got this spot on, more than any other. And I believe it was just a matter of luck that they sound that way more than it was by intended design because even expensive headphones don’t recreate this, including Sennheiser‘s own,
Just eq in some bass and you have headphones for the eternity.
I think Sennheiser still really don’t know how valuable this headphone could be priced and still have something better than its competitors.
It really has the best timbre out there hands down. And to me this aspect is where most of the emotion in music lives. (Other than the actual song itself)
the HD600 /580 got this spot on, more than any other. And I believe it was just a matter of luck that they sound that way more than it was by intended design because even expensive headphones don’t recreate this, including Sennheiser‘s own,
Just eq in some bass and you have headphones for the eternity.
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dakanao
Headphoneus Supremus
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Man, for me I would just stop searching for gear if there would be an HD650 with more bass quantity and extension, and if I would find such a sound in IEM form
. Turns out it’s incredibly hard, since all those headphones and IEMs either have weak bass, or are too harsh in the uppermids or treble.
AxeMadman81
Head-Fier
The problem with HD600 Is in the Bass region.
From 60 to 120 the response Is Not Flat but Underemphasized of 5db
This could be a problem..No bass detail in Thar Range..
Fortunayely,From 120 to 250 hz Is Basically Flat..
From 60 to 120 the response Is Not Flat but Underemphasized of 5db
This could be a problem..No bass detail in Thar Range..
Fortunayely,From 120 to 250 hz Is Basically Flat..
That was supposed to be the Focals, but that didn’t work, not for me at least (the 650 with more bass definition part, not the iem part).Man, for me I would just stop searching for gear if there would be an HD650 with more bass quantity and extension, and if I would find such a sound in IEM form
Turns out it’s incredibly hard, since all those headphones and IEMs either have weak bass, or are too harsh in the uppermids or treble.
What I was trying to get at (which agrees to some extent with what @jonathan c said) is that the question of how many Tesla or Gauss units of magnetic force doesn’t have much effect on sound quality since the force of the electromagnet is variable. So, saying one headphone has a permanent magnet of 1T while another headphone’s permanent magnet’s field is only as strong as .5T doesn’t matter, because the Newton’s of force propelling the driver are still entirely dictated by how much power is flowing through the voice coils (the electromagnet).If I focus on impedance, gauss, amperage, my listening is impeded…
It’s like saying “this amp is louder, because the dial goes to 11.” I respect that you are curious, which is why I am going into such detail for you, but be careful you don’t attribute the wrong things to getting higher quality. Don’t miss the forest by concentrating on the trees
I’m not an engineer by trade, but my understanding is that a higher resistance (Ω) headphone requires more voltage, but that this is as easy as having enough headroom on a voltage mode amplifier (which the vast majority of amplifiers are). Low Ω headphones actually require more current, though this can be somewhat offset by having higher sensitivity… which has its own trade-offs. If you would like to read a very well-written technical explanation, check out Currawong’s page on the subject: https://www.h-ear.audio/2019/06/01/headphone-power-calculator/
In my opinion, I would replace the HD 580 and say that the HD 600 and HD 560S will really take you far. The linear extension into sub bass and angled drivers of the HD 560S are a real treat for me, but other parts of the HD 600 design are more optimal for performance and some people prefer the more intimate expression due to the HD 600’s drivers directing sound waves straight into the ear canals.
The HD 580 had some resonance issues due to the plastic grilles not being as acoustically transparent as the steel mesh in later models; the HD 580 grilles cause some resonance that muddies the sound a bit and gives a bit more distortion in the form of extended decay. However, it’s cool to see a classic model have a resurgence in popularity, especially in the past year. I always thought the dark blue herringbone pattern grilles looked really cool. Ultimately, enjoyment is where you find it
Some interesting history I found out about the HD 580, it was one of Axel Grell’s first projects once he joined Sennheiser. And at the time of the HD 580 and HD 600, they were Sennheiser’s flagships (below the aspirational HEV-90… the original Orpheus), and they were Axel’s attempt to come as close to the timbre and tuning of the Orpheus as possible (for a Dynamic driver). Planars were considered and dismissed. I say Axel, but really there were many engineers on the team and the equivalent of millions of dollars in academic research and prototyping, leading to several innovations. But how to price the thing? Well, the HD 580 launched at $349/$390, and then to celebrate Sennheiser’s 50th anniversary with a limited edition (lower margins), the resonance issues were “fixed” and the tonality brought closer to their golden reference sound by adding a fine metal mesh grille and tweaking the drivers in the HD 580 Jubilee, released for $450. To Sennheiser’s surprise, people really wanted that HD 580 Jubilee sound and we’re willing to pay for it. Sennheiser could have charged more for this “baby Orpheus” that wouldn’t be a limited production item, but they didn’t think they would sell well if they priced them too high… so they sold what would be the HD 600 for $500, in 1997. Today, we see flagship efforts released at $4,000 and up, but remember that the $350 Beats by Dre (and Monster) wouldn’t be released until 2008.
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Sennheiser just informed me that they would not be attending any trade shows in 2021 due to Covid/Delta variant safety concerns and likely low attendance. However, I already have tickets for CanJam SoCal, and if you see me, you should have a listen to the IE 900 and IE 300Man, for me I would just stop searching for gear if there would be an HD650 with more bass quantity and extension, and if I would find such a sound in IEM form
Turns out it’s incredibly hard, since all those headphones and IEMs either have weak bass, or are too harsh in the uppermids or treble.
I was also asked to present a “Headphones 101” seminar, which would be a cool honor. So as long as I can make the show work, I think it will be a lot of fun!
Really interesting post! I can remember when the HD600 was first released there was a lot of emphasis on the fact that it incorporated lessons learned from the Orpheus. It sounded amazing then and even better now because of the limited options for amplification available at that time.
Oops. Inadvertent double post. Deleted.
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First, thank you @Evshrug for your comprehensive, informative and interesting contributions. Much appreciated!What I was trying to get at (which agrees to some extent with what @jonathan c said) is that the question of how many Tesla or Gauss units of magnetic force doesn’t have much effect on sound quality since the force of the electromagnet is variable. So, saying one headphone has a permanent magnet of 1T while another headphone’s permanent magnet’s field is only as strong as .5T doesn’t matter, because the Newton’s of force propelling the driver are still entirely dictated by how much power is flowing through the voice coils (the electromagnet).
It’s like saying “this amp is louder, because the dial goes to 11.” I respect that you are curious, which is why I am going into such detail for you, but be careful you don’t attribute the wrong things to getting higher quality. Don’t miss the forest by concentrating on the trees
I’m not an engineer by trade, but my understanding is that a higher resistance (Ω) headphone requires more voltage, but that this is as easy as having enough headroom on a voltage mode amplifier (which the vast majority of amplifiers are). Low Ω headphones actually require more current, though this can be somewhat offset by having higher sensitivity… which has its own trade-offs. If you would like to read a very well-written technical explanation, check out Currawong’s page on the subject: https://www.h-ear.audio/2019/06/01/headphone-power-calculator/
In my opinion, I would replace the HD 580 and say that the HD 600 and HD 560S will really take you far. The linear extension into sub bass and angled drivers of the HD 560S are a real treat for me, but other parts of the HD 600 design are more optimal for performance and some people prefer the more intimate expression due to the HD 600’s drivers directing sound waves straight into the ear canals.
The HD 580 had some resonance issues due to the plastic grilles not being as acoustically transparent as the steel mesh in later models; the HD 580 grilles cause some resonance that muddies the sound a bit and gives a bit more distortion in the form of extended decay. However, it’s cool to see a classic model have a resurgence in popularity, especially in the past year. I always thought the dark blue herringbone pattern grilles looked really cool. Ultimately, enjoyment is where you find it
Some interesting history I found out about the HD 580, it was one of Axel Grell’s first projects once he joined Sennheiser. And at the time of the HD 580 and HD 600, they were Sennheiser’s flagships (below the aspirational HEV-90… the original Orpheus), and they were Axel’s attempt to come as close to the timbre and tuning of the Orpheus as possible (for a Dynamic driver). Planars were considered and dismissed. I say Axel, but really there were many engineers on the team and the equivalent of millions of dollars in academic research and prototyping, leading to several innovations. But how to price the thing? Well, the HD 580 launched at $349/$390, and then to celebrate Sennheiser’s 50th anniversary with a limited edition (lower margins), the resonance issues were “fixed” and the tonality brought closer to their golden reference sound by adding a fine metal mesh grille and tweaking the drivers in the HD 580 Jubilee, released for $450. To Sennheiser’s surprise, people really wanted that HD 580 Jubilee sound and we’re willing to pay for it. Sennheiser could have charged more for this “baby Orpheus” that wouldn’t be a limited production item, but they didn’t think they would sell well if they priced them too high… so they sold what would be the HD 600 for $500, in 1997. Today, we see flagship efforts released at $4,000 and up, but remember that the $350 Beats by Dre (and Monster) wouldn’t be released until 2008.
I replaced the plastic grilles on my 580s with metal grilles from the 600, and there was a marked improvement in both clarity and timbre. Plus they look pretty badass with the grey headband and the black grilles. I gave them to my brother about a year ago with an old Schiit lyr and they are still getting daily use. That was a great combination!
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