[gimmeheadroom]

I have a WBA Tzar amp on order, and will be using it (among other cans) with the HD600. Will post impressions when it arrives. I was originally going to go for the Felix, but the “other” Polish amp seemed more interesting...

Singled ended OTL 6S41S, E88CC driver (in my case).

Excellent, it will be great to learn about some other European OTL amps which are not common on the forums

 

[descloud]

What i can't understand is how the vast majority of people seem to like the HD800 out of a generic setup. I live in Germany and the HD800 fed from a normal linear solid state amp like a Lehmann Linear seems like the classic hifi setup here. I'm not talking about a modded, equalized and right matched HD800 but i'd take a bose qc35 every day over a Stock HD800 out of those generic ss amps.

I feel people who enjoy the HD800 stock tuning comes down to two sets of perceptions:

• Those who don't have sensitivities or possibly have some sort of hearing loss are not affected by the 6khz peak
• Those new to the hobby perceive such tonality of the HD800 as 'revealing of every detail' or other superlatives, and not yet realizing how such a peak can be fatiguing for maybe the average person

I haven't heard the QC35 extensively and only had a brief demo, but I can see the QC35 as having a more laid back or relaxing tonality when compared against the HD800 stock.

I even remeber the first time I heard the 800. I was baffled, and asked why? It was a point of maturing my idea of how this hobby really is. How can you enjoy sound if it causes fitigue?

It seems not everyone finds the HD800 stock tonality fatiguing - at this point I'm not too surprised especially if they listen at low volumes. I find the HD800 stock tonality listenable and non-fatiguing at my lower listening volumes (~60dB).

I tried EQ, and boy was it disappointing! Totally different headphone all smoothed out with no details to sounds.

My experience is a bit different. The HD800 needs EQ to have a more correct timbre in the midrange at the expense of cymbals/hi-hats losing some of that realistic texture. With EQ, it doesn't affect the rest of the details it presents - hence why it's known for being among the best in raw detail. Although one flaw I still notice is there's still a lingering 6kHz peak that I haven't found a way to completely remove. Maybe an SDR mod + EQ would do the trick - a project for another time.

If somebody recommends a solid-state, I would be quite skeptical.

If a person uses EQ, I'm one to recommend any capable solid-state amp (cause I use one like a normie). Not unusual for other HD800 owners that do the same. The iFi Micro BL or another iFi product with bass boost gets the HD800's bass going for bass heavier tracks.

 

[G0rt]

Breaking in my new Romanian HD600, and loving the new, understated matte graphite aesthetic.

Just like my Irish, sound like ass out of the box, brassy, dark and compressed, no soundstage at all, but open up nicely after just a few hours, 20 or so at this point.

New Romanian HD650 took about the same before they started to sound right, and continue to improve.

Loving my Grados lately, but I don't think I'll ever lose these Senns.

 

[iFi audio]

Loving my Grados lately, but I don't think I'll ever lose these Senns.

That's the thing with Senns. It doesn't make sense to sell them as at some point we buy them again anyway

 

[ColdsnapBry]

Anyone else like their HD 600 with a bump in the bass? Been listening with +3db bass shelf and sounds pretty nice as I listen to some modern music.

 

[Midgetguy]

Anyone else like their HD 600 with a bump in the bass? Been listening with +3db bass shelf and sounds pretty nice as I listen to some modern music.

A tiny extra bass works well for the HD600 IMO. My DAC/amp isn't neutral anyway, has a warm tilt, HD600s sound great on it.

 

[bagwell359]

The 650 should not be radically different from the 600. What didn't you like about it?

And what headphones were you used to before you heard the 650?

I own the 600 and only heard the 650 once head to head. While I found the 600 to sport occasional bits of sharpness, I found the 650 annoying consistently - seemingly veiled from top to bottom - like its a 600 tuned with a couple of pieces of burlap between the driver and the ear.

That was with a meh SS amp and a crappy CD player in about 2013. I bought a 600 in '15 with a much better system, but the real magic was adding the OTL BHCw/S amp, a TIDAL Hi-Res stream, and a Gumby DAC. Warmer than SS, and far more liquid. No interest in trying a 650, lots in an 800S on the BHCw/S.

 

[bagwell359]

Anyone else like their HD 600 with a bump in the bass? Been listening with +3db bass shelf and sounds pretty nice as I listen to some modern music.

On a parametric digital:

Hz db Q curve

88 3.5 .71 Low Shelf
160 -2.1 1.10 Digital bell 2 (fight again bit of a rise in mid bass)
2.5k 1.0 2.30 " " (very small correction)
3.85k -3.3 3.33 Analog bell (need to cut this area)
8k -4.0 3.33 Dig bell 2 (another key area to cut)
12.4k 4.6 3.90 Analog bell (adds some air that;s missing)

This is set on my Rag1, BHC the same curve works, but when I get to it, it'll be set a bit different.

Also this is my most subtle EQ setting on any can - basically flat from 225 Hz - 1.8 kHz - or basically all the midrange - that's superb. If I toss out the very tiny settings at 2.5k then its 225-2.5k amazing.

 

[ColdsnapBry]

On a parametric digital:

Hz db Q curve

88 3.5 .71 Low Shelf
160 -2.1 1.10 Digital bell 2 (fight again bit of a rise in mid bass)
2.5k 1.0 2.30 " " (very small correction)
3.85k -3.3 3.33 Analog bell (need to cut this area)
8k -4.0 3.33 Dig bell 2 (another key area to cut)
12.4k 4.6 3.90 Analog bell (adds some air that;s missing)

This is set on my Rag1, BHC the same curve works, but when I get to it, it'll be set a bit different.

Also this is my most subtle EQ setting on any can - basically flat from 225 Hz - 1.8 kHz - or basically all the midrange - that's superb. If I toss out the very tiny settings at 2.5k then its 225-2.5k amazing.

Nice, I'll give this a try too.

 

[iFi audio]

Anyone else like their HD 600 with a bump in the bass? Been listening with +3db bass shelf and sounds pretty nice as I listen to some modern music.

I like HD6XX with hardware boosters in our own products. If I didn't have these available, I'd probably use some digital EQ.

 

[Majestyk]

I think the 6XX are generally a little brighter than the 650's. Mine certainly are, plus I've read at least three owners of both who've claimed the same thing. That said, I still wouldn't recommend them for tube amps

 

[gooeyrich]

I think the 6XX are generally a little brighter than the 650's. Mine certainly are, plus I've read at least three owners of both who've claimed the same thing. That said, I still wouldn't recommend them for tube amps

Has to be placebo.

 

[Majestyk]

Has to be placebo.

Absolutely not. I had to EQ my 650's to make them brighter sounding. My 6XX I don't.

 

[descloud]

Absolutely not. I had to EQ my 650's to make them brighter sounding. My 6XX I don't.

Possibilities of the HD6XX sounding different to the HD650 comes down to the following:

• Pad age
• Unit Variance
• Perception bias

Pad age is definitely the biggest change as Crin proved on his measurements. The older the pads, the darker/warmer the HD6XX/HD650 becomes. Unit variance is also possible, but I haven't seen reports of Sennheiser drivers having wildly different frequency curves for the same model unlike some Audeze and Hifiman models. With that said, I will label the second option as the lowest possibility.

Now, assuming you tested using the same fresh pads and still say the HD6XX is brighter sounding, I would attribute this to the likeliness of perception bias. This is similar to if you were doing wine tasting and know the price difference - more often than not there is this inherent perception of the more expensive one being "better" or "tasting different". There's a link that's been shared multiple times about this so I won't be re-linking that anymore.

To get to my point, if you initially tested the HD6XX with fresh pads and the HD650 with older pads, there would likely be this inherent perception that the HD6XX is brighter, and carry on even if you swap the pads on the HD650 to a fresh pads. At this point you have done sighted testing. Best way to remove this type of perception is either performing measurements using reasonably accurate equipment that will confirm or deny what you're hearing, or do a proper blind test with the two models.

Just my two cents on the matter. By far I haven't found evidence to support the HD6XX being different acoustically from the HD650. I welcome to be proven wrong though.

 

[Majestyk]

They were both new with same pads. Unit variance is possible. Perception bias is BS. (I would have rather kept the 650's, they looked nicer)